GWR Dec 19 timetable

swt_passenger · 24 Nov 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
That's all very well, but incomplete.

In the evening there's a service at 21:15 calling at Slough and Maidenhead. It's not shown. There will be others.

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servi...ndResponseId=4&isOutboundJourneySelected=true

It’s a main line service that crosses to reliefs somewhere towards Reading.

By the way folks, there’s been a separate thread about the TfL timetable elsewhere in this forum
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...the-gwr-services-along-the-same-route.194368/
which also discusses the recent reappearance of most GW stoppers...

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cactustwirly · 24 Nov 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
That's all very well, but incomplete.

In the evening there's a service at 21:15 calling at Slough and Maidenhead. It's not shown. There will be others.

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servi...ndResponseId=4&isOutboundJourneySelected=true

None of the peak semi fast services are shown in the TfL timetable

Amlag · 24 Nov 2019

43074 said:
The fast Bristol services are being introduced at a later date to reduce the risk of the timetable change on day 1.

I have heard it said from a now Rtd FGW HQ Manager that a not insignificant reason and benefit to First Group, for the introduction of these extra services is to help block any attempts by other operators to run competing services !

HowardGWR · 24 Nov 2019

jimm said:
Needless to say, the new GWR timetable T10 does a rather better job of showing what will be running, especially for those living in Maidenhead and Twyford.

Apart from commuters, who get to know the available services very quickly, how many prospective casual pax on this route would ever consult a paper timetable (or a pdf), as opposed to just using their mobile phone or PC for the time in which they are interested?

cactustwirly · 24 Nov 2019

HowardGWR said:
Apart from commuters, who get to know the available services very quickly, how many prospective casual pax on this route would ever consult a paper timetable (or a pdf), as opposed to just using their mobile phone or PC for the time in which they are interested?

Well it's useful for daytrippers in London, especially in the evening when the stoppers get overtaken by the Semi-fast and fast services

MarlowDonkey · 25 Nov 2019

cactustwirly said:
Well it's useful for daytrippers in London, especially in the evening when the stoppers get overtaken by the Semi-fast and fast services

Also that for the first time in many years, there are restrictions on the validity of off peak tickets out to Maidenhead, Twyford and the branches.

II · 25 Nov 2019

jimm said:
Or just an even bigger, almightier mess than the last time two-car Turbos were used at that time of the day out of Oxford, while the people with bikes fight their way off through the crowds clustered around the doors on the platform, who then fight their way on board.

I see that the working timetable optimistically allows just 90 seconds for all this to happen. I suspect that departure time is going to be rather nearer to 17.27, when it is mean to be turning left at Wolvercote.

It's going to be tight and a scrum that's for sure, though it does have a 1 minute engineering allowance between Radley and Oxford and the faster approach to the station after the resignalling also helps now. The punctuality of the preceding fast train from London will be very important as it is booked over Didcot North Junction three minutes before, though stops on the 'Halts' train at Appleford, Culham and Radley will at least give that fast train time to get to Oxford unloaded and dispatched to the sidings without any further hold-ups, unlike previously when it ran non-stop from Didcot and had to wait outside the station.

Oh, for a platform 5...

jimm · 25 Nov 2019

II said:
It's going to be tight and a scrum that's for sure, though it does have a 1 minute engineering allowance between Radley and Oxford and the faster approach to the station after the resignalling also helps now. The punctuality of the preceding fast train from London will be very important as it is booked over Didcot North Junction three minutes before, though stops on the 'Halts' train at Appleford, Culham and Radley will at least give that fast train time to get to Oxford unloaded and dispatched to the sidings without any further hold-ups, unlike previously when it ran non-stop from Didcot and had to wait outside the station.

Oh, for a platform 5...

And there is also the preceding Southampton-Newcastle XC service to factor into the equation - a late arrival at and departure from Reading for that and all the dominoes start to fall down.

pt_mad · 26 Nov 2019

II said:
Off-Peak planned to be:
00 - Bristol TM (via Bath)
03 - Plymouth or Penzance
07 - Bedwyn
15 - Bristol TM (via Parkway)
18 - Cardiff Central
20 - Oxford
30 - Bristol TM (via Bath)
33 - Cheltenham
37 - Alternate hours Exeter/Plymouth/Paignton semi-fast (IET) or Newbury fast via Reading (387)
45 - Bristol TM (via Parkway)
48 - Swansea
50 - Oxford/North Cotswolds Line

Without having to scour every page, had a quick look, will all these use the fast line (is it the down main) or will some be on the (relief?/slow?) lines on their way West?

si404 · 26 Nov 2019

pt_mad said:
Without having to scour every page, had a quick look, will all these use the fast line (is it the down main) or will some be on the (relief?/slow?) lines on their way West?

Yes, that's all on the Mains east of Reading (with 4tph HEx too). GWR will additionally have a 2tph Didcot service on the Reliefs, alongside TfL 2tph each to Reading, Hayes & H and Heathrow.

pt_mad · 26 Nov 2019

si404 said:
Yes, that's all on the Mains east of Reading (with 4tph HEx too). GWR will additionally have a 2tph Didcot service on the Reliefs, alongside TfL 2tph each to Reading, Hayes & H and Heathrow.

Quite a very high frequency timetable then to use a phrase used elsewhere!

Wilts Wanderer · 26 Nov 2019

pt_mad said:
Quite a very high frequency timetable then to use a phrase used elsewhere!

That's the benefit of all using identical stock with identical performance characteristics; HEX notwithstanding.

si404 · 26 Nov 2019

One thing the 20tph peak/16tph(+2tph pencilled in) GWML Mains service will show is how HS2 would be able to pull off the proposed 17tph, contra recent suggestions it should only 14tph as that's what other similar lines top out at.

Obviously some trains will run through Reading without stopping, and 4tph won't reach it, but there's going to be 12tph from Reading to London right through the day, with just 2tph of those stopping once (at Slough). That's a very very good London service.

IrishDave · 26 Nov 2019

pt_mad said:
Without having to scour every page, had a quick look, will all these use the fast line (is it the down main) or will some be on the (relief?/slow?) lines on their way West?

Yes, that's all on the Mains. A more up-to-date summary of departures can be found in my earlier post #122 here - some of the departure times have moved and there are now quite a lot of 2-minute intervals between trains, not 3-minute intervals.

swt_passenger · 26 Nov 2019

How much publicity is being given at Paddington to the large number of future evening peak trains non-stop through Reading? It isn’t going to help the timetable if trains are unable to leave Paddington because people who’ve just heard the calling pattern are frantically trying to get off.

Prompt departures needed for 2 minute headways will require dispatch to be far more efficient, cue complaints about doors closing too early, etc etc...

Rich McLean · 26 Nov 2019

swt_passenger said:
How much publicity is being given at Paddington to the large number of future evening peak trains non-stop through Reading? It isn’t going to help the timetable if trains are unable to leave Paddington because people who’ve just heard the calling pattern are frantically trying to get off.

Prompt departures needed for 2 minute headways will require dispatch to be far more efficient, cue complaints about doors closing too early, etc etc...

I imagine many will chance it in the first few weeks and get overcarried to Bristol Parkway and the like, and thereafter will become wise to it and learn very quickly which trains don't call at Reading. Some will listen to the various annoucements on the day, others won't and will expect it to call as Pick up only and just get off as they normally would, but find themselves sailing through Reading non stop.

Highly likely also in the first few weeks, Revenue Protection will be out in force on the trains that avoid Reading during the evening peak, and also at Oxford, Swindon & Bristol Parkway to issue Penalty Fares and tickets back to Reading for those calling GWRs bluff on the non-stop crack expresses.

Mag_seven · 26 Nov 2019

swt_passenger said:
How much publicity is being given at Paddington to the large number of future evening peak trains non-stop through Reading?

The summary screens normally have a # sign (or something similar) which shows that the train calls at Reading. Of course at the moment most trains do - the problem will be trains departing to the same destination at the same time (e.g. 17.00 to Bristol) that will cease to stop at Reading. People will just assume that it still does despite the summary screens indicating that it doesn't.....

JonathanH · 27 Nov 2019

Rich McLean said:
Highly likely also in the first few weeks, Revenue Protection will be out in force on the trains that avoid Reading during the evening peak, and also at Oxford, Swindon & Bristol Parkway to issue Penalty Fares and tickets back to Reading for those calling GWRs bluff on the non-stop crack expresses.

Are there enough revenue protection people to enforce the revised evening peak restrictions for off-peak passengers and non-stop trains to Oxford / Swindon / Bristol Parkway? I would have thought that they will focus on the former and leave the train managers to do full and thorough ticket examinations on the long-distance non-stop trains given they will have longer to get through them.

cactustwirly · 27 Nov 2019

Mag_seven said:
The summary screens normally have a # sign (or something similar) which shows that the train calls at Reading. Of course at the moment most trains do - the problem will be trains departing to the same destination at the same time (e.g. 17.00 to Bristol) that will cease to stop at Reading. People will just assume that it still does despite the summary screens indicating that it doesn't.....

I'm just seeing the 16th as a huge clusterf**k for GWR and TfL, especially in the evening peak.

si404 · 27 Nov 2019

There's screens and announcements and all that at Paddington. People getting on the wrong train shouldn't be an issue, but no doubt will be.

HowardGWR · 27 Nov 2019

si404 said:
There's screens and announcements and all that at Paddington. People getting on the wrong train shouldn't be an issue, but no doubt will be.

The only safeguard would be separate barriers for each platform with barrier computer software sufficiently aware of time of day and destinations of trains at that platform.

coppercapped · 27 Nov 2019

Amlag said:
I have heard it said from a now Rtd FGW HQ Manager that a not insignificant reason and benefit to First Group, for the introduction of these extra services is to help block any attempts by other operators to run competing services !

Although it would appear that it was not originally a First Group decision. I attended a presentation about the IEP to the Institution of Mechanical Engineers on 27th June 2011 at which one of the DfT’s civil servants responsible for the IEP, Stuart Baker, announced the introduction of the future non-stop Bristol services. No TOC representatives were present on the platform - only Hitachi and DfT made presentations.

As one of the original arguments for franchising was to get the decision making concerning the TOCs' commercial offer closer to the front line, it staggered me that the DfT was making timetabling decisions...

By the time they start running it will be some 8 3/4 or 9 years since Mr Baker's announcement. I hope he's happy.

HowardGWR · 27 Nov 2019

Of course some of us think that a 'non-stop' service that stops in Stoke Gifford, isn't!

DaveHarries · 27 Nov 2019

Speaking of the Class 800s I noticed today that 800314 now uses *both* lines for its destination on the displays next to the doors: saw it at Temple Meads this afternoon showing "Bristol Temple Meads" (rather than "Bristol TM") as its destination. I guess the rest will follow.

Dave

Melancholia · 28 Nov 2019

DaveHarries said:
Speaking of the Class 800s I noticed today that 800314 now uses *both* lines for its destination on the displays next to the doors: saw it at Temple Meads this afternoon showing "Bristol Temple Meads" (rather than "Bristol TM") as its destination. I guess the rest will follow.

Dave

I've noticed this on quite a few IETs, but only seen 'London Paddington' used on two lines, compared to the current 'London Pad'.

Looks better in my opinion.

SEPS · 28 Nov 2019

Post 786 comments that there will be restrictions on the use of off peak tickets from Paddington out to the Thames Valley branches. Is there a concise source for which departures are now being excluded. does not appear in the timetables I have been looking at

swt_passenger · 28 Nov 2019

SEPS said:
Post 786 comments that there will be restrictions on the use of off peak tickets from Paddington out to the Thames Valley branches. Is there a concise source for which departures are now being excluded. does not appear in the timetables I have been looking at

It’s shown in this timetable pdf. Bright blue requires an “anytime” fare.
https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/plan-journey/timetables/2019/december/t10-dl-web-tt.pdf?la=en

387star · 28 Nov 2019

Could 5 car 800s ever be used on Cardiff to Portsmouth services in theory?

JN114 · 28 Nov 2019

387star said:
Could 5 car 800s ever be used on Cardiff to Portsmouth services in theory?

I mean in theory if they were route cleared you could; but it would be a total waste of their capabilities.

They’re high speed EMUs with onboard power generation; for long distance express services. They’re laid out for long dwell times and long periods between stops.

Despite protestations on here Cardiff - Portsmouth is a series of medium speed regional commuter services strung together to create one long distance through service with a tiny minority of passengers using it full length of the route. The linespeed rarely gets out of the 70s and it’s heavily overcrowded so needs high density seating rolling stock and large circulating areas to reduce dwell times at stations.

Wilts Wanderer · 28 Nov 2019

JN114 said:
I mean in theory if they were route cleared you could; but it would be a total waste of their capabilities.

They’re high speed EMUs with onboard power generation; for long distance express services. They’re laid out for long dwell times and long periods between stops.

Despite protestations on here Cardiff - Portsmouth is a series of medium speed regional commuter services strung together to create one long distance through service with a tiny minority of passengers using it full length of the route. The linespeed rarely gets out of the 70s and it’s heavily overcrowded so needs high density seating rolling stock and large circulating areas to reduce dwell times at stations.

A rolling stock solution similar to that currently being introduced across East Anglia would be ideal in my opinion...

GWR Dec 19 timetable

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