10 legit ways to get cheaper rail fares

[yorkie]

Wait, where from?

If you change your mind about the value of ODTs, let me know and I'll give you the answer.

Well, since you claimed that the ODT was the cheapest ticket, as you'll see here, in particular here the evidence that I had from NRE claimed that it wasn't. As I say, until Tom's post, there wasn't actually anything that I saw that was supporting you.

So, as you said, I did want evidence of the validity, so I did check information sources - and no information presented in this thread until Tom's post was in support of the idea that the ODT was the cheapest ticket. Indeed, all the information that was presented was against the idea that it was the cheapest, as I showed that there were, apparently, cheaper tickets available.

What 'information sources' did you try, I wonder why they failed to mention routeing. If you are using Thetrainline I suggest you use the "Show all fares" link, this will show the fares along with any routeing options. Alternatively phone NRES.

Never make assumptions about the routeing of a ticket, especially on a route shared by several operators with several pricing options - the chances are they might not all be the same .

 

[yorkie]

Here's a scenario for you...

Day trip from Nottingham to London for Peter B for Sat 24 March.
Assumptions: Y-P holder, No requirement to use NR services and no requirement to go outside Z1-2. I also assume Peter B is free on Saturday and has been invited - just today - to an event in London at relatively short notice, with a arrival time of mid-morning and departure time of evening. All very plausible.

Walk-on fare that MML want you to pay: £31.50, plus Oyster cap: £4.40. Total = £35.90 (If you want 'evidence' check www.thetrainline.com or phone NRES)

Advance purchase: 07:07 NOT-STP £8.60 (bit early for some, but there is no later train at this price, and the 10:30 is too late and costs £13.85), 17:55 or 18:55 STP-NOT (Sadly you will have to specify which in advance). Plus Oyster cap: £4.40. Total = £26.85 (If you want 'evidence' check www.thetrainline.com or phone NRES)

One day travelcard using a fares anomaly £25.60 (which I will reveal if you open your mind....)

However, as you said, "...an ODT is still at least £5.10 more expensive than the equivalent CDR or SVR" (Erm, except in the case of Rugby, Nottingham, Peterborough, and loads of other places...in fact most places.... did you mean "at MOST"? ) and "The purpose of the Oyster card still stands as it was intended when introduced - it is always cheaper to travel in London on one than on travelcards or paper tickets." (did you mean "SOMETIMES cheaper"? ) and "Never wondered why TFL keep branding Oyster as "cheaper"?" (yeah, I do wonder, but I suppose they have some small print that says it only applies to journeys wholly within London. This topic is, of course, about people purchasing travelcards from outside London to make it cheaper ), however ultimately you'd either have to pay the extra to use inflexible advance purchase tickets, or you'd have to decline the invitation, as "For my use, i.e., advance purchase. I don't travel any other way long distance." (Don't you? Oh well, looks like you'd pay the extra to be restricted then )

 

[Tom]

I've just gone over SWT, and cannot find any case of SWT charging more than £3.70 extra, and that £3.70 extra is just a Petersfield - London.

Journey                      CDR  £   ODT  £    Extra  Priced by
================================================================
South Western Main Line
----------------------------------------------------------------
Woking - London              £09.50   £12.50    £3.00  SWT
Farnborough - London (AP)    £15.50   £19.80    £3.30  FGW
Basingstoke - London (AP)    £16.40   £20.60    £4.20  FGW
Micheldever - London         £20.20   £23.70    £3.50  SWT
Winchester - London          £23.20   £26.50    £3.30  SWT
Eastleigh - London           £25.00   £28.30    £3.30  SWT
Soton Stns - London          £27.20   £30.40    £3.20  SWT
Brockenhurst - London        £30.40   £33.30    £2.90  SWT
Bournemouth - London         £36.40   £38.90    £2.50  SWT
Poole - London               £37.80   £40.00    £2.20  SWT
Wareham - London             £39.80   £42.10    £2.30  SWT
Dorchester South - London    £43.30   £45.50    £2.20  SWT
Weymouth - London            £45.50   £47.50    £2.00  SWT

Journey                      CDR  £   ODT  £    Extra  Priced by
================================================================
Portsmouth Direct Line
----------------------------------------------------------------
Woking - London              £09.50   £12.50    £3.00  SWT
Guildford - London (WOKING)  £11.00   £14.00    £3.00  SWT
Godalming - London (AP)      £12.60   £16.10    £3.50  SWT
Haslemere - London           £15.00   £18.40    £3.40  SWT
Petersfield - London         £18.30   £22.00    £3.70  SWT
Havant - London (AP)         £22.60   £26.00    £3.40  SWT
Havant - London (Hassocks)   £23.80*  £22.70   -£0.90  SN
Portsmouth Harbour - London  £25.20   £28.50    £3.30  SWT
Portsmouth Harbour - London  £23.00*  £22.00   -£1.00  SN
 (route Hassocks/Horsham)

* SVR cost used.

As Peter B suggested the equivalent CDR/SVR, that's what I used for SNs comparative fares between Portsmouth-Havant - London route... although a PriceBuster Return does exist, it requires buying a supplementary travelcard, cheapest way to do this is to buy a ticket from East Croydon to all zones.

Where I have put (AP) in brackets, it is the more expensive fare that I have listed, note the FGW examples on Farnborough and Basingstoke, where FGW charge £4.20 extra for the TC, the SWT (route WOKING) is about £3.40 extra.

 

[Oracle]

Going back to my bugbear about Ashurst (New Forest), or say SOUTHAMPTON - London Terminals will it ever be cheaper to break somewhere such as Woking?

 

[CallySleeper]

Why Nottingham? I don't live in Nottingham.

 

[yorkie]

Why Nottingham? I don't live in Nottingham.

Your MSN profile says Nottingham! And your route coverage map suggests Nottingham too! Where do you live then?

 

[CallySleeper]

Your MSN profile says Nottingham! And your route coverage map suggests Nottingham too! Where do you live then?

I recently moved; I'm sorry but I really don't think I want to be asked where I live by somebody on the internet who I don't know that well.

What 'information sources' did you try, I wonder why they failed to mention routeing. If you are using Thetrainline I suggest you use the "Show all fares" link, this will show the fares along with any routeing options. Alternatively phone NRES.

My information source was NRE (did you not read my posts?)

 

[Tom]

You used the online version of NRE, which, quite honestly is ****.

 

[Tom]

Automotivehistorian,

Ashurst New Forest - London Terminals           £28.30

Ashurst New Forest - Soton Central       £3.10  
Soton Central - London Terminals        £27.20  £30.30

Ashurst New Forest - Winchester          £5.30
Winchester - London Terminals           £23.20  £28.50

Ashurst New Forest - Micheldever         £7.70
Micheldever - London Terminals          £20.20  £27.90 ***

Ashurst New Froest - Basingstoke        £10.40
Basingstoke - London (route WOKING)     £16.20  £26.60 *** or
Basingstoke - London (route ANY PMT)    £16.40  £26.80 ***

Ashurst New Forest - Farnborough        £13.50
Farnborough - London (route NOT RDG)    £12.60  £26.10 ***
Farnborough - London (route ANY PMT)    £15.50  £29.00

Ashurst New Forest - Woking             £18.20
Woking - London (route ANY PERMITTED)    £9.50  £27.70 ***

Combinations highlighted with a *** indicate it is cheaper than the full fare from Ashurst. Use my guide earlier in this thread for ODT prices from these stations. The cheapest "break of journey" is at Farnborough, trains calling at Farnborough (express services) are the Southampton Central shuttles, and the Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh service.

You can make a discount of £2.20 by splitting at Farnborough, should get around the restrictions too.

 

[Oracle]

Cheers Tom. I wonder if it makes any sense in the future to go Virgin XC via Reading and FGW to Paddington? Way too long a journey I fear, though it's interesting as an exercise.

As to the restrictions, and getting round same, excuse my ignorance but what advantage is there for splitting at Farnborough? My CDR from Soton Central was limited to starting my journey that would arrive at London Terminals after 10.00, so I could catch say the 0905 Central-Waterloo or the Weymouth-Waterloo that followed (this was 1995-6!) as they arrived at around 1020. My interest is of course in minimising that dreaded >20% rise, which has had the local populace up in arms according to the DAILY ECHO. However applying the uplift just to the Farnborough-Terminals portion means a substantial saving compared to the uplift on the through fare! Brilliant work, thanks.

I had a crazy idea just then that changing at Clapham Junction for Victoria, a Southern terminus, would escape the uplift but that won't work because you are alighting and changign at Clapham, and that is subject to their restrictions! It does seem however that Southern's Southampton-Victoria route is considerably cheaper but they don't run Sundays!

 

[Tom]

Swap the Ashurst New Forest - Farnborough Main CDR to an SDR (50p extra), and you can get the 0752 from Portsmouth Harbour (0852 from Eastleigh) and just split there onto the same train.

Arrives Waterloo 1008 on that option, or 0845 from Southampton Central to arrive at 1034.

 

[Oracle]

Great Tom thanks...SDR to Farnborough then a CDR Farnborough - Terminals. Or ODT? I know I shouldn't ask but is there a time restriction affecting splitting at Farnborough or Woking? It would seem that as the arrival is after 10.00, then there is no problem?

 

[Tom]

ODT, I may have found something though, one sec!

EDIT: The earliest you can realistically arrive without paying over the odds and changing trains here there and everywhere is after 1000, which is CDR time anyway so SDR to Farnborough then ODT into London, or an ADT if you want a peak travelcard to arrive in before 1000.

 

[Oracle]

I am hitting the sack now but I realised that there are Troglodytes like me that have no idea what these abbrevations mean. For the benefit of us cave-dwellers, we know that CDR and SDR mean Cheap and Standard Day Returns, and "London Terminals" means London termini to include Victoria, Waterloo, and City Thameslink [?]. Also, SVR, "Saver Return", "APEX" = "Advance Purchase Excursion". However ODT is the off-peak travelcard and stands for "ONE DAY TRAVELCARD"? But what does ADT, the peak Travelcard, stand for?

 

[Tom]

London Terminals includes all terminal stations in London, and also Kensington Olympia.

ODT stands for Offpeak Day Travelcard, ADT is just the code for the Peak Day Travelcard.

 

[Oracle]

Swap the Ashurst New Forest - Farnborough Main CDR to an SDR (50p extra),

Amazing that it's just 50 p more!



Mr Does has since commented:

Thanks. Yes, that's right. The 20% will apply only to fares to the London area. Anywhere to Woking won't go up, so you book to Woking and then a Woking-London fare. You don't need to change to do that as you can get both at the ticket office (or on the train if you use Ashurst). Rebooking Southampton for the Southern fare will be even better - it's £12.90 at present for their Price Buster Day Return.

Actually Southern say £13, but that's quibbling. Or:

Daysave: £10 but up to four adults £20
Network Downlander :£12.50, child £2.50
Pricebuster £13: on trains arriving at Victoria after 10.55.

 

[CallySleeper]

Anyways, to conclude the argument, given Yorkie's new scenario, and walk-up fares, I would get the sodding coach. £18 day return, lovely smashing marvellous.

Also, since this thread has clearly past it's best-before date somewhat, shouldn't it get locked?

 

[Tom]

All that arguing for nothing! Giving in so soon Perter?

 

[yorkie]

Anyways, to conclude the argument, given Yorkie's new scenario, and walk-up fares, I would get the sodding coach. £18 day return, lovely smashing marvellous.

Also, since this thread has clearly past it's best-before date somewhat, shouldn't it get locked?

As you won't let me do an example for your present circumstances, can you just stick with the Nottingham example and tell me what you'd do?

Oh and I may as well give you the answer. Rolleston. Just promise that if you use it you'll admit it on here

 

[Oracle]

Many years ago my local ticket office chappie at Netley where I lived suggested just that...save money and get the coach! So I got a train to Southampton Central, walked to the then Hants & Dorset bus station and got a coach to Heathrow. Blinking cheap it was! Very fair point Sir! In fact for us it's easier to get the coach from up the road directly to Heathrow then a Picc train to Hounslow West.

 

[yorkie]

"London Terminals" means London termini to include Victoria, Waterloo, and City Thameslink [?].

"London Terminals" means any terminal that is on a permitted route from your origin to London Group, as defined in the Routeing Guide.

Until recently, there was a rule that stated that journeys from south of the Thames to London terminals were only valid as far as City Thameslink, and from north of the river to King's Cross/Moorgate, however I believe that has now been abolished. I am not sure of the exact rules at the moment. Tom C might know

 

[thefab444]

Stuff it...I'm going green. Southern gets my ££££. It's quite a nice little trip via Hove and Gatwick.

Shame about the rolling stock.

Just out of interest, do the Soton - Victoria services go all the way through as 4 coaches (not aware if a 377/3 has ever worked it), or do they join up with another service at Barnham or somewhere?

 

[Tom]

One 377/3 worked it recently - most are 8 cars from at least Three Bridges if I recall correctly, most join at Littlehampton though I think! paul1609 would know better.

 

[Oracle]

I have never known any joining-up Soton-Victoria but without looking at the timetable could not say whether trains join up at Littlehampton although now I think about it, I seem to recall trains splitting at Barnham for Bognor Regis. Whether that was in fact the Vic-Portsmouth Harbour service I cannot say. There used to be a very interesting working, Portsmouth - Seaford [via Littlehampton I think]. I just wish Southern still ran to Bournemouth [as per when the service started under BR] as it added to the services down to Bournemouth but in latter years it was often terminated at Southampton to regain time. Of course Virgin ran to Poole as well.

 

[Tom]

Virgin still can run to Poole under the current timetable...

Arr Bournemouth xx13
Dep Bournemouth xx14
Arr Poole xx24
Dep Poole xx26
Arr Poole S.S. xx28
Dep Poole S.S. xx32
Arr Poole xx33 (this bit can be cut out)
Dep Poole xx34
Arr Bournemouth xx44
Dep Bournemouth xx46



The SN service "replacement" is an extended Southampton Central stopper.

 

[Oracle]

Wonder if VXC will ever take advantage of the timetable slots again?

 

[Tom]

Doubt it!

 

[thefab444]

I read somewhere a 377/3 was going to work the Soton - Vic, but was substituated with a 377/4? This was marked as 'the first time a /3 ran it', but didn't happen.

What exactly does an SDR give you over a CDR or SVR? And that it doesn't have that an SOR does.

 

[Tom]

A 3 car 377 definately worked to Southampton a few days/weeks ago.

An SDR is an unrestricted version of the CDR & SVR. It is a day return, as opposed to an open (return within 1 month) return (SOR).

 

[CallySleeper]

As you won't let me do an example for your present circumstances, can you just stick with the Nottingham example and tell me what you'd do?

Seriously, I wouldn't go by train; not when you could save more instead of a £31 SVR.

Oh and I may as well give you the answer. Rolleston. Just promise that if you use it you'll admit it on here

seriously, I was counting down the days until you would try the IP trace trick, although to be honest I was expecting you to say Sheffield/Leeds/Wakefield as that's what most programs come out with. Rolleston is miles off.