10 legit ways to get cheaper rail fares

[Tom]

If you're tight fisted, yes

 

[CallySleeper]

1-6

An off-peak return trip to Heathrow Airport from STP on LU on Oyster is cheaper than a travelcard, even with a railcard. In fact, this is the case for any return journey between any two zones. Also, a zone 1 & 2 Oyster travelcard is cheaper than a paper travelcard - it would be interesting to see the zones actually travelled by those who have entered London from further afield on NR.

 

[yorkie]

Bloody things.
Tried this splitting thing..
Burnham-Cardiff SVR: £35

Burnham-Swindon: £16.50
Swindon-Cardiff: £16.50
Total £33

Is it really worth it to save just £2?

That particular example? No, unless you wanted a break of journey at Swindon on the outward leg and wanted to return within a month.

If it was a day trip you'd get a CDR combo which is approx £22 which would save approx £13 (or, in other words, effectively child rate compared to a through saver).

 

[yorkie]

An off-peak return trip to Heathrow Airport from STP on LU on Oyster is cheaper than a travelcard, even with a railcard. In fact, this is the case for any return journey between any two zones. Also, a zone 1 & 2 Oyster travelcard is cheaper than a paper travelcard - it would be interesting to see the zones actually travelled by those who have entered London from further afield on NR.

Cheaper than £1.95?

I still maintain that, for anyone out of Z1-6 on a walk-on fare, an inclusive travelcard is the best value. Even if you save a few pence getting a CDR and then Oyster singles (which I doubt), it's daft to say no to a travelcard for £1.95 that can get you any bus, tube and national rail, and the bonus of not having to do all this "touch in/out or we ching you" crap.

 

[Tom]

Let's be realistic here, if you have a railcard, you get serious discounts by getting an ODT, especially as you can't railcard discount on Oyster.

For instance, a Grantham - London ODT (on YP) is £21.20, a CDR with the same restrictions into London Terminals is £17.80, a zone 1-6 travelcard is £6.90 (paper), or £6.40 (cap) (Oyster, no NR*). Therefore, if you buy your travelcard or use Oyster in London, you pay £24.20 (or £24.70) in total. You only pay £3.40 for your travelcard if you buy it combined with your ticket.

If you are only doing a zone 1-2 journey, generally you will do 3 journies in London (this is an average based on statistics). Therefore, this is a minimum of £4.50 on Oyster. So even then, you are paying more than you need to if you buy a CDR. The only way you do get a cheaper journey (by only 40p) if you only do 1 return journey across zone 1 by Tube.

Your Heathrow airport theory is incorrect, as most people would be going to Heathrow Airport and would book their tickets ahead, and therefore take advantage of GNER Advance tickets, hence getting a discount anyway. A cash single to Heathrow Airport from KXSP is £4. So... think again!

* some exceptions

 

[CallySleeper]

For instance, a Grantham - London ODT (on YP) is £21.20, a CDR with the same restrictions into London Terminals is £17.80, a zone 1-6 travelcard is £6.90 (paper), or £6.40 (cap) (Oyster, no NR*). Therefore, if you buy your travelcard or use Oyster in London, you pay £24.20 (or £24.70) in total. You only pay £3.40 for your travelcard if you buy it combined with your ticket.

I wouldn't know as I would by walk-up tickets for that price.

If you are only doing a zone 1-2 journey, generally you will do 3 journies in London (this is an average based on statistics). Therefore, this is a minimum of £4.50 on Oyster. So even then, you are paying more than you need to if you buy a CDR. The only way you do get a cheaper journey (by only 40p) if you only do 1 return journey across zone 1 by Tube.

The Oyster cap is £4.40. Also, a CDR is a return, not 3 different journies.

Your Heathrow airport theory is incorrect, as most people would be going to Heathrow Airport and would book their tickets ahead, and therefore take advantage of GNER Advance tickets, hence getting a discount anyway. A cash single to Heathrow Airport from KXSP is £4. So... think again!

A cash single is £4.

An Oyster return is also £4.

GNER Travelcards should only be valid for zones 1 & 2. Otherwise, a travelcard, with railcard, £4.40.

Think again Thomas

 

[Tom]

A GNER Travelcard? WTF is one of those?!

EDIT: Fair enough about the cap, but you're still only saving 50p, which most people wouldn't be fussed about.

I can't think of many people that would go to Heathrow Airport and purposely get an Oyster for doing that though, unless you wish to give me a list of 300 people who would do so? (I reckon I can get a list of at least 500 who wouldn't want to bother with the fuss.)

 

[yorkie]

GNER Travelcards should only be valid for zones 1 & 2.

You what??!?!! Where are you getting your info from?

 

[Tom]

An ODT clearly states:

Between

ORIGIN & LONDON R1256

Which are Z1-6...

 

[Max]

What are you talking about Peter? Why would you want to buy an oyster card for a through journey from an NR station? Surely it isn't practical when you can get a discount with your railcard that would never be available with Oyster, and there's no saving in time as your through ticket would work in the ticket barriers. If making long multi-zone journies or several journies in a day travelcards are always going to work out cheaper, and the fact that you get buses included too is another bonus. Oyster is designed for London residents who perhaps make one return journey a day commuting - am I correct?

 

[Tom]

I've got an Oyster card, I use it for when I actually am in London for several days, as it only works out cheaper when I do that.

 

[Mojo]

It can depend on you age and whether you hold an age-discounted Pre-pay Oyster Photocard. If you're 16 or 17, a tube single journey is priced between 70p and £1.70 (weekdays 7am-9pm) and 70p or £1 (other times). Children pay 50p for any journey. However, 16-17 holders (who could benefit from the £1.95 add on with a Y-P) wouldn't benefit if they're doing multiple journeys on Oyster, as the minimum cap is £2 (unless they plan on using bus/tram only).

You don't have to be a London resident, Max to benefit from Oyster. Even if you do a return journey in Zone 1, and throw your Oyster away afterwards, you'd save money! (Alternatively you could get your £3 deposit back!) If you're under 17, you can get a photocard for a non-refundable charge of £5, and save big when compared to Adult capping or the cash fares!

 

[CallySleeper]

Now I don't go to London regularly. However, I still recognised that investing £3 in a card would be a good idea as I would only be using it in zones 1 & 2, it would still be cheaper than a Y-P T/C.

 

[Oracle]

I wish I could find the absolute cheapest way to get from Southampton Central to say Penrith North Lakes as against say Appleby, where my HQ is based. It's a taxi ride, say 13 miles, from PNL to Appleby. Is there any advantage in splitting or going by listed route?

Time was when I used to go from Swanwick to Waterloo leaving around 08.30 either via Southampton Central (say 30 minutes on the train) or via Havant. Arrived about 10.25 in either case. It was about £18.30 back in 1976 for the UD and bus thrown-in, whereas leaving slightly earlier was £40! Anyhow, the price was the same as going from Parkway, despite miles more train travel, and the Car Park at Swanwick was free...otherwise it was a drive along the M27 then park all day at something like a fiver in those days. Barry Doe said that the anomalies on the Southampton-Cosham line were left-overs from BR days, and booking from Porchester was cheaper ..... than from where?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Sorry if this is considered off topic as it's not a trick, but on the subject of fares, why , like Peter B said earlier, are GNER Value fares so expensive?!

An example is Leeds to London-

Cheapest MML single, when available is:
£7 Standard Class.
£14 First Class.

This is compared with GNER's option of:
£10.65 SC (ok not a great difference, but...)
£32.50 First Class- over double MML!

I was personally planning on doing York-Kings Cross- St Pancras-Derby-Bristol over Easter, but because GNER isn't the cheapest TOC out there, i'm going to save the £18.50 difference and use it elsewhere.

 

[CallySleeper]

Sorry if this is considered off topic as it's not a trick, but on the subject of fares, why , like Peter B said earlier, are GNER Value fares so expensive?!

An example is Leeds to London-

Cheapest MML single, when available is:
£7 Standard Class.
£14 First Class.

This is compared with GNER's option of:
£10.65 SC (ok not a great difference, but...)
£32.50 First Class- over double MML!

I was personally planning on doing York-Kings Cross- St Pancras-Derby-Bristol over Easter, but because GNER isn't the cheapest TOC out there, i'm going to save the £18.50 difference and use it elsewhere.

Never thought about doing York - London direct with MML?

 

[Tom]

...because not many trains do that journey direct with MML?

 

[CallySleeper]

At least it's cheaper

 

[Tom]

I think someone who wanted to go on a Wednesday would not want to go on a Saturday instead, especially if they had a meeting.

 

[David]

Never thought about doing York - London direct with MML?

Slight problem with that. MML have to actually run to/from York on a regular basis.

M-F - No through services
Sat - 0620 ex STP, arrive York at 1016, return leaves York at 1749, arrive at STP at 2152
Sun - 1010 Leicester - York, arriving at 1219 (first northbound MML service of the day), returning at 1725, Arriving at STP @ 2143

Lots of choice there....

 

[theblackwatch]

Sorry if this is considered off topic as it's not a trick, but on the subject of fares, why , like Peter B said earlier, are GNER Value fares so expensive?!

Anyone who thinks £10.65 York-London (or £9.50 if you book online through GNER) is expensive needs to have a reality check. That fare is cheaper than any ordinary ticket you could buy for that journey around 20 years ago - it is incredibly good value. If £10.65 for 189 miles is expensive, what is a local bus journey at around £1.30 for 2 miles?

 

[Tom]

In fact, why not the "zone 1" cash single fare between Leicester Square and Covent Garden. Works out to £16 per mile.

So, if we charged that rate for York - London, £3024 value single please.

 

[yorkie]

Now I don't go to London regularly. However, I still recognised that investing £3 in a card would be a good idea as I would only be using it in zones 1 & 2, it would still be cheaper than a Y-P T/C.

ok, so when you go to London you only do a couple of zone 1/2 singles? Well, maybe you're one of the few people who doesn't benefit from an inclusive-travelcard, but for most of us it's a no-brainer really.

I wish I could find the absolute cheapest way to get from Southampton Central to say Penrith North Lakes as against say Appleby, where my HQ is based. It's a taxi ride, say 13 miles, from PNL to Appleby. Is there any advantage in splitting or going by listed route? ?

Evil_hippo lives in Appleby and always tells us how much better value the Appleby-Penrith bus is than just about any other bus in the country! So it may be worth trying the bus? Also I think Mr Hippo knows a few good fare combos to Penrith so may be worth sending him a PM

Sorry if this is considered off topic as it's not a trick, but on the subject of fares, why , like Peter B said earlier, are GNER Value fares so expensive?!

An example is Leeds to London-

Cheapest MML single, when available is:
£7 Standard Class.
£14 First Class.

This is compared with GNER's option of:
£10.65 SC (ok not a great difference, but...)
£32.50 First Class- over double MML!

I was personally planning on doing York-Kings Cross- St Pancras-Derby-Bristol over Easter, but because GNER isn't the cheapest TOC out there, i'm going to save the £18.50 difference and use it elsewhere.

OK, you've gone off-topic now by talking about advance purchase fares.

We've actually had this conversation before. There are 3 main reasons:

Firstly, there's supply and demand. I take it you have not travelled on MML and GNER much, or you'd not really be asking the question...

Secondly, the £10.65 fare you quote is only £9.50 if bought from GNER.

Thirdly, the availability of the cheapest MML tickets is actually very limited in my experience.

As for First Class, you will get no service on a weekend on MML (which is when most £14 tickets will be available for) so you are just paying for a larger seat really. I have found FC on GNER to have much higher loadings than MML, which suggests various factors: 1) Better service on GNER (at weekends at least), 2) More demand on the ECML, 3) The cheapest FC tickets on MML are not in huge supply.

At the end of the day, it comes to supply and demand more than anything. GNER have the highest loadings out of all the InterCity TOCs, despite having longer trains. So why should they sell tickets at daft prices like £7? I agree with theblackwatch on this.

For the extra £2.50 you get a journey time of around 2 hours compared to 3.5 hours by MML. I challenge you to find me someone who values their time at under £2 per hour.

 

[16CSVT2700]

That particular example? No, unless you wanted a break of journey at Swindon on the outward leg and wanted to return within a month.

If it was a day trip you'd get a CDR combo which is approx £22 which would save approx £13 (or, in other words, effectively child rate compared to a through saver).

Day trip yes, just had a check again on the train line and it shows swindon-cardiff for £9.65, why it didnt show it first i dont know.

Cheers tho, I'll amend this saturdays plan to include a break at swindon to grab the additional ticket.

Burnham-Swindon: £16.15 (just checked again)
Swindon-Cardiff: £9.65
Total: £25.80

Much better.. I'll remember that

 

[CallySleeper]

I was aware that MM only ran 2 trains/week but you shouldn't really be discounting the cheaper fares on that basis. It might still be cheaper to change at Leeds or Sheffield.

Anyone who thinks £10.65 York-London (or £9.50 if you book online through GNER) is expensive needs to have a reality check. That fare is cheaper than any ordinary ticket you could buy for that journey around 20 years ago - it is incredibly good value. If £10.65 for 189 miles is expensive, what is a local bus journey at around £1.30 for 2 miles?

It isn't expensive but partly because of demand, partly because, unlike some of their rivals they actually seem to open at T-10 weeks - availability seems to be generally less.

ok, so when you go to London you only do a couple of zone 1/2 singles? Well, maybe you're one of the few people who doesn't benefit from an inclusive-travelcard, but for most of us it's a no-brainer really.

It doesn't matter. An Oyster Z12 travelcard cap is still cheaper than a Z1256 travelcard.

 

[yorkie]

Day trip yes, just had a check again on the train line and it shows swindon-cardiff for £9.65, why it didnt show it first i dont know.

Cheers tho, I'll amend this saturdays plan to include a break at swindon to grab the additional ticket.

Burnham-Swindon: £16.15 (just checked again)
Swindon-Cardiff: £9.65
Total: £25.80

Much better.. I'll remember that

No probs

As a general rule of thumb, on FGW Didcot is a very useful point to split tickets, although you restrict yourself to trains that call there:

Burnham-Didcot £7.60 CDR
Didcot-Swindon £4.95 CDR
Swindon-Cardiff £9.65 CDR
Total: £22.20

Also the CDRs are not much use before 10am M-F (the Burnham-Didcot CDR is valid after 0900 but as a Y-P holder you'd need a saver before 10am).

As for what's worth it, it depends really. For some people the Didcot split is far too inconvenient to save an extra £3.60, but for others it may actually be very useful e.g. to visit the railway centre (as a BOJ isn't permitted on an outward saver, so this would be a way of legitimising a break there!)

You can get all the tickets in one go, from the ticket office (or, if no ticket office - which I think may be the case here - on the train).

I am now considering banging my head against a brick wall :P

I was aware that MM only ran 2 trains/week but you shouldn't really be discounting the cheaper fares on that basis. It might still be cheaper to change at Leeds or Sheffield.

Actually, you can discount the cheaper fares on that basis. Why? Because the only advance fares that exist to York on MML are "MLL Only" tickets. "MML + Connections" do not exist for that flow.

Leeds/Doncaster do get "MLL + Connections" tickets (specify 'via Rotherham' when booking on thetrainline to ensure maximum availability/flexibility, then collect from FastTicket, your ticket is then "open" between Sheffield and Leeds or Doncaster )

It isn't expensive but partly because of demand, partly because, unlike some of their rivals they actually seem to open at T-10 weeks - availability seems to be generally less.

Opening earlier for bookings surely gives more people the chance to book. If someone leaves it 2 weeks before to book, then all the cheap tickets may have gone, but that doesn't mean availability was low. Many people request to be emailed when the cheap tickets go on sale and snap them up quick. I've had no problems getting £9.50 tickets for large groups when I book on the day they go on sale. The fact is loads of these tickets are available, and they are extremely popular - and for good reason as they are excellent value for an excellent service!

It doesn't matter. An Oyster Z12 travelcard cap is still cheaper than a Z1256 travelcard.

Wrong. £4.60 versus £1.95 (Y-P) / £3 (Adult) taking the Peterborough example.

According to this the Zone 1/2 cap for an adult is £4.60. This is 50p less than the cash Z1-2 travelcard (£5.10) and only 20p less than Z1-6 from within the zones with a railcard.

But, as I said earlier, it costs more for Oyster than an inclusive travelcard (£1.95 in the example from Peterborough), which is what we are talking about.

In summary:

If travelling to London from outsize the Zones, and you require travel around London (even in just zones 1 and 2), then it is cheaper to get an inclusive travelcard. It is not cheaper to split it into a CDR + Oyster.

 

[theblackwatch]

I was aware that MM only ran 2 trains/week but you shouldn't really be discounting the cheaper fares on that basis. It might still be cheaper to change at Leeds or Sheffield.

I've never found availability of GNER value tickets to be less than other TOCs - in fact, in November, I obtained a ticket up to Edinburgh at the cheapest rate on the day before travel - that was at sensible times too, going in the morning and back in the late afternoon. That's unusual though, but I find that by booking in plenty of time, there are normally plenty of cheap tickets to be had, particularly if you're prepared to be flexible with regard to journey times.

Withe regard to Voyagerdude220's comments about GNER's value fares being expensive, here's a direct comparison with Virgin from York to Edinburgh, where the comparison is much better than Leeds-London as the trains take the same route:
GNER:
Std Class range - £11.50-£24.00
First Class range - £27.50-£59.50
Virgin:
Std Class range - £11.00-£25.00
First Class range - £29.00-£68.00

Not much difference, except that Virgin's Advance 1st single is £9 more than GNER's - and only £12 less than a GNER walk-on single.

 

[16CSVT2700]

No probs

As a general rule of thumb, on FGW Didcot is a very useful point to split tickets, although you restrict yourself to trains that call there:

Burnham-Didcot £7.60 CDR
Didcot-Swindon £4.95 CDR
Swindon-Cardiff £9.65 CDR
Total: £22.20

Cheers I'll grab em tomorrow from Slough T.O. I can buy CDRs for next day can't I? If not I'll work out a plan to include the breaks to grab tickets..

I am now considering banging my head against a brick wall :P

 

[CallySleeper]

Blackwatch - the main difference that I can identify personally between GNER tickets and their respective VXC tickets is that GNER operate a minimum fare on railcards, VXC not - meaning that Virgin tickets can start at £5.60 and GNER at £9.x0, with GNER tickets seemingly selling out earlier.

(On a side point VXC are probably slightly cheaper in first on A/P tickets as they accept railcards)

Actually, you can discount the cheaper fares on that basis. Why? Because the only advance fares that exist to York on MML are "MLL Only" tickets. "MML + Connections" do not exist for that flow.

Leeds/Doncaster do get "MLL + Connections" tickets (specify 'via Rotherham' when booking on thetrainline to ensure maximum availability/flexibility, then collect from FastTicket, your ticket is then "open" between Sheffield and Leeds or Doncaster )

For York or elsewhere I was thinking more along the lines of CDS/R to Leeds/Doncaster or Sheffield and then AP to London.

Opening earlier for bookings surely gives more people the chance to book. If someone leaves it 2 weeks before to book, then all the cheap tickets may have gone, but that doesn't mean availability was low. Many people request to be emailed when the cheap tickets go on sale and snap them up quick. I've had no problems getting £9.50 tickets for large groups when I book on the day they go on sale. The fact is loads of these tickets are available, and they are extremely popular - and for good reason as they are excellent value for an excellent service!

What I was trying to get at probably is that GNER tickets seem to sell out earlier, because of the factors already mentioned.

Wrong. £4.60 versus £1.95 (Y-P) / £3 (Adult) taking the Peterborough example.

According to this the Zone 1/2 cap for an adult is £4.60. This is 50p less than the cash Z1-2 travelcard (£5.10) and only 20p less than Z1-6 from within the zones with a railcard.

But, as I said earlier, it costs more for Oyster than an inclusive travelcard (£1.95 in the example from Peterborough), which is what we are talking about.

In summary:

If travelling to London from outsize the Zones, and you require travel around London (even in just zones 1 and 2), then it is cheaper to get an inclusive travelcard. It is not cheaper to split it into a CDR + Oyster.

Tom convieniently picked an example (Grantham) where a CDR/Travelcard ticket was available and it wasn't terribly far from London. We need to remember that CDs or Travelcard-inclusive tickets aren't always available from all origins, on all operators and not all tickets can come with LU travel included - Tom's example fortunately did. We have to look at passengers from further afield having to purchase LU travel seperately, whether it be at the origin station, or when they arrive in London, but not inclusive of their NR ticket to London Termini.

On that basis, as has been identified previously, an off-peak ODT travelcard purchased exclusive of all other travel with railcard costs nearly £5. A Z12 Oyster cap is £4.60 - even a Z12 Oyster return is £3 (railcard N/A obviously). A London Termini - LU/DLR tube return ticket (probably what the 'travelcard' price is) seems to be in the region of £4 - with a railcard.

An then let's think about the other x number without railcards.

 

[Tom]

Quick reminder, the ODT on NR only exists where TOCs find it "reasonable" for a day trip to be carried out, based on distance over time.