I think GA should ship in Pacers and 153s and replace all the 317s/321s/360s with 'em. Then maybe ginger will be happy.
yet another puerile comment from a GA apologist......
answer the points raised......
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yet another puerile comment from a GA apologist......
answer the points raised......
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I think GA should ship in Pacers and 153s and replace all the 317s/321s/360s with 'em. Then maybe ginger will be happy.
I would like to see that
. last I checked the lines were not sparsely used, try the 7:57 from Wroxham to Norwich, seemed pretty well used then. but then again I forget we Norfolk folk don't count to the rest of East Anglia apparently :roll:Ginger the problem is that GA have no firm guarantee that if they pump millions of £'s into the trains they won't lose that money if they don't get the longer franchise.
All people on this line seem to want is the luxuries of power sockets and wifi.
As has been already pointed out some passengers in the north still have to put up with pacers.
All people on this line seem to want is the luxuries of power sockets and wifi.
As has been already pointed out some passengers in the north still have to put up with pacers.
point 1. really? well employ people to do it then! or just stop people sitting down drinking tea all day!
point 2. new wash plant? really? why are all the trains a filthy yellowy brown then? they are a disgrace!!!
point 3. since when does any 321 in the rush hour get up to 70-80mph? you really do live in lala land!
point 4. you seem to condone the transportation of human beings (who pay extortionate premium prices) in conditions that would be illegal to transport animal in. why?
point 5. back to the thread and comment of the factual points raised
calm down children....we all know GA are crap.....you cant defend the indefensible
I think we all seem to support and defend GA, I think you should get your facts right
87015
Established Member
ginger,IIRC you commute on the Southend road? get a car, drive to a c2c station where you can park and commute for a similar price to GA train only season tickets and get a far superior service quality in almost every single way. Talk with your wallet, GA will be more interested than online ranting.
the good people up north are subsidised to hell by London commuters.....another nasty unavoidable fact I am afraid.....
I am not talking about "luxuries" I am talking about decent heating that works when required, air con and a decent seat.....if you look at pretty much every other line into London they get it......we are bottom of the pile.....
back to my original point......any comments or are all the GA apologists happy that their customers are now going to suffer appalling trains for the next 7 years?
why no "this is disgraceful, our customers deserve much better than this".....if you read this it is scary.....maybe a lot of the staff should consider a new career on a preserved railway......this is supposed to be a modern customer focused business? Where is the customer is right?
87015
Established Member
All? Nobody should be defending off lease stock whilst PIXC counts rise, as said a few pages ago. That's not good for GA, not good for the industry.
aha the standard issue rose tinted GA specs!
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if I had that option I would have gone years ago.......
Yes there IS a brand new wash plant at Orient Way, you have to go through it to get out of the yard.
Plenty of rush hour trains get up to full speed. The problem is is the line is so congested even the slightest delay for example passengers holding doors or are late, causes knock on delays which slows other services down. You seem to think that your train is the only one on the line. GEML is one of the most congested lines in the country!!
We all know you talk rubbish and no matter what GA do they will be rubbish in your eyes. I don't blame GA for not investing when they have no guarantees.
my god the first sign of a sensible comment! there is a god.....not just GA rose tinted spec wearing dinosaurs!
so with the new "long" franchise not due until late 2016 and no chance of the ROSCO authorising the fleet rebuilds for either the 317s or the 321s what now? Yes passengers will contine to suffer appalling trains but I am interested in who can change this?
Why can the Dft not step in after all the franchise is the second or third most profitable in the country? why the stand off? who has delayed this?
As the man from the ROSCO said (before the GA apologists stepped in) if we dont get an order soon it will not be cost effective to do this.....hence my point about the "demonstrator" being a white elephant.....and then what does that mean for even older 317s? The scrapheap?
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thanks for the lesson Dave1987......I know....I experience the farce everyday.....very RARELY do trains get up to that speed and I am more than aware of the capacity issues thank you.......probably more than you! I have been doing this for over 30 years! bring back NSE!
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whats your thoughts on the yellow/brown trains? when compared to a LOROL 378 white train st Stratford it appear at least one TOC can keep their white trains white! Not the cost cutting cynical tax collectors of GA!
Its interesting how people want c2c to come and run GEML. You do realise NX run c2c don't you? The company you all hated so much before GA took over? That cut GEML to the bone? Surely that shows you that the problems are not down to GA and that the improvements on c2c are not down to NX??
The naivety is unbelievable!!
ignoring most of the sensible questions again...........sigh..........
yes.....well aware of all the issues, ownership, investment and history thank you.......GA have COMPOUNDED the probelms that NX greed started.....
now why not get back on thread, stop being childish and lets have your thoughts on the very serious long term issues raised......or do you not understand the railway properly?
I believe that they are hand washing trains at Ilford now because of how bad the trains were getting. But I bet that isn't good enough for you either.
If you know how congested the line is why are you complaining about the slow running sometimes? You know what the problem is. How would bringing back Network South East possibly solve that???
Now we see eye to eye, the part cause of the lack of long term refurbishment plans is down to DFT. NXEA really put us into this non refurbishment mess but the DFT have given a short franchise virtually stalling any long term plans. It would be insane for any Business who holds a franchise for a short period of time to invest £x,xxx,xxx of pounds when they may see no return. But all I am trying to say is that Greater Anglia are a damn better than National Express East Anglia, and that they have made a good start but they have a long way to go. But Hopefully one day none of us will have a problem with our train services, one day...
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87015
Established Member
Yeah, I know where the shared management was and wasn't. Pretty sure the Ops director makes more of a difference than a driver, but I might be wrong.
How many coaches did NX run the GE outer service with form Dec 12 after fighting for more coaches compared to GA and what was the PIXC, again?
by the way if you have ever read a TOC franchise then you will know that there are several sections and guarantees that the Dft can give TOCs to roll over both leases for cafes, news stalls, shops, TRAINS and any other associated cost into the NEXT franchise......
try and read one......they are complicated legal documents but when you do read one, then try and interpret one and you will understand what is possible.......
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I'm not even going to respond to that. It has been well documented why GA took those trains off lease. I believe it was because the cost of them was so high.
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You have lowered yourself to personal insults, insinuating that I can't read is just childish. End of debate I'm afraid, can't be bothered with you.
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87015
Established Member
If its well documented you should know, rather than just believe? the cost of running a railway is indeed high, should all TOCs give up and send stock off lease because that costs less? Reducing the number of carriages on a prime overcrowded route is a crap idea, end of if you ask me, I'd be interested to hear a real defence of it, especially what passenger get out of it, rather than your corporate bluff.
well Dave1987 you clearly started it.......I kept saying back to thread but dont bother with facts and go and practice your GA propoganda.....
they may well have taken them off lease for "cost" reasons but thats the whole point! They only replaced appx 20-30% of the seats with the ilford christmas trees......cost cutting to appease the Dft due their overbid premium payments (which they have never met by the way)
back to thread........let's leave Dave1987 out this sensible conversation about desperately needed investment for customers....
so what now? 317/321 demonstrators white elephants?
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here here! and then lets bear in mind there is PLENTY of money in this franchise.....appx 35% profit on turnover of about £700m.......
so who is to blame for this unacceptable delay and given my original sensible point.....what will happen? will the ROSCO just leave the trains to rot and run them into the ground?
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all freely available on the Dft website! every TOC past and present......I know reading them means I lead a busy jet setting life LOL
you tell Dave1987 that he cannot read but it seems to me that you do not understand simple business ideas 1) a 4 car 317/7 could hold as much as a 2 car class 156, that is not logical for a busy commuter route 2) the cost involved was to great, simple business ideas 3) they were not greatly used after 379s took over Stansted Express meaning that this increases costs further, if you wanted them running on your 'important' commuter routes then I am sure you will have fun on a extremely packed train. If you want to find the full story about 317/7s go and use the search tool and look it up yourself. I have heard about these 317/7s too many times now.
SprinterMan
Established Member
I know for a fact (I have been told by the people who know these things) that a Class 317/7 costs 3 times as much as a 317/5 to lease.
Adam
I know for a fact (I have been told by the people who know these things) that a Class 317/7 costs 3 times as much as a 317/5 to lease.
Adam
thats all fine and well understood but the logic of just ditching seats on one of the most overcrowded and profitable lines? with no alternative????? someone please?
but back to the thread.......anyone on the points re 317/321 demonstrators and the delays? white elephants?
SprinterMan
Established Member
Completely correct. A 317/7 has about the same number of standard class seats as a 156, they only operated 8 services M-F on the GEML, and I have been told they caused nightmarish overcrowding on 1Y03 0629 Ipswich to London Liverpool Street.
There was a rumour at one point that they would be put on Harwich and Walton stoppers, but the leasing costs were far too high and there was an ample number of 321s to cover these services. Sending them off-lease was the cheapest and easiest way of doing it. Who in their right mind would put a new commuter interior in very expensive and barely used trains that had a new interior only 10 years ago anyway.
321448 should be back by the end of the month hopefully.
Adam
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I personally think they should just get on and do it BUT how can GA commit to it when they cannot guarantee getting the long franchise and from what I have read the DFT keep moving the goalposts.
There was a rumour at one point that they would be put on Harwich and Walton stoppers, but the leasing costs were far too high and there was an ample number of 321s to cover these services. Sending them off-lease was the cheapest and easiest way of doing it. Who in their right mind would put a new commuter interior in very expensive and barely used trains that had a new interior only 10 years ago anyway.
321448 should be back by the end of the month hopefully.
Adam
thats fine but what of the mass 317/321 fleet refurb delay? will it ever happen now?
87015
Established Member
There was a rumour at one point that they would be put on Harwich and Walton stoppers, but the leasing costs were far too high and there was an ample number of 321s to cover these services. Sending them off-lease was the cheapest and easiest way of doing it. Who in their right mind would put a new commuter interior in very expensive and barely used trains that had a new interior only 10 years ago anyway.
321448 should be back by the end of the month hopefully.
Adam
So that's it, because they were more expensive making more people stand is totally OK. I will wait for Northern to send all 150s off lease as they are more expensive than 142s and the reduced capacity means more people have to stand but that's OK because some units were more expensive to use?!? You do realise that some trains were reduced from 12 321 to 8 321 and it wasn't just previously booked 317 booked services affected?
Anyway we are told that 2+2 seats ala 317/7 is better for commuter routes than 3+2 so you can't us that!! Less coaches = less seats = less space = bad.
I can see why they cut costs, given the lots and lots of zeros on the revenue target figures, but that doesn't make any of it good.
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Looking forward to it, I would like to see some pictures when it comes out, see if it is as good as the 156 refurbishment or better
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This argument is boring now, same news being said and said again, goodnight
Hey ginger, what app did you use to measure the temperature with your iPhone?
I ask because the phone doesn't have a thermometer (besides sensors to measure the CPU temp, battery etc) so you couldn't have got an accurate measurement of the train interior.
In any case, the humidity is what makes it feel bad, not just the temp.
And you say four others also checked the temp? What did they use?
I've never in my life seen people pull out thermometers on a train.
My watch has a thermometer on it, but I need to remove from my wrist and wait for a reading (else it's influenced by body temp) so I find it laughable that you can give temp readings when anyone else would just open the windows!
I ask because the phone doesn't have a thermometer (besides sensors to measure the CPU temp, battery etc) so you couldn't have got an accurate measurement of the train interior.
In any case, the humidity is what makes it feel bad, not just the temp.
And you say four others also checked the temp? What did they use?
I've never in my life seen people pull out thermometers on a train.
My watch has a thermometer on it, but I need to remove from my wrist and wait for a reading (else it's influenced by body temp) so I find it laughable that you can give temp readings when anyone else would just open the windows!
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