321448 demonstrator

[SprinterMan]

answer me this......boarded a 321 this evening.....sitting in the sidings all day with windows shut......iphone app confirmed it was 45 degrees for over 35 mins of the journey (on the usual knackered filthy seats of course).....

45 degrees Celsius? I find that hard to believe tbh, maybe it was about 35 and mr iPhone was playing up in the heat. Also do iPhones even have the correct apparatus to measure temperature inside of them? I can't see why anyone would fit a thermometer to a phone.

are you serious? GA ABellio are NXEA on speed! they come in, overbid the NXEA premium payments by 30%, reduce the cleaning regime, reduce the number of seats during the rush hour, invest zero.....well cheap in house interior refresh that falls to bits after 5 mins.....trying their best? Most staff i speak to cant wait to get rid of them! It is worse than NXEA and thats some achievement!

Bits in bold are either lies or factually incorrect....

Why is the GA area staffed by people who dont give a toss about their customers?

I have found GA staff are always really friendly and caring. There are always 1 or 2 exceptions wherever you go, but on the whole GA staff are very nice and saying otherwise comes across as a bit rude and ungrateful.

Does anyone has something serious to say or are we all hi on GA LSD fresh from Holland!!!!

I am part Dutch and I find the stereotype that all Dutch people do drugs is a tad offensive. A cheeky bit of Cannabis perhaps, but LSD is still well illegal in the Netherlands.

point 1. really? well employ people to do it then! or just stop people sitting down drinking tea all day!

I know quite a few people who would take offense to that. This stupid assumption that railway staff are lazy is incorrect and frankly cruel to railway staff who do a bloody good job in most cases.

calm down children....we all know GA are crap.....you cant defend the indefensible

Don't speak to people like that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and taking that tone with people just creates a really nasty atmosphere. While I may not agree with your views, you are well entitled to share them, but please try to be a tad less rude.

So that's it, because they were more expensive making more people stand is totally OK. I will wait for Northern to send all 150s off lease as they are more expensive than 142s and the reduced capacity means more people have to stand but that's OK because some units were more expensive to use?!? You do realise that some trains were reduced from 12 321 to 8 321 and it wasn't just previously booked 317 booked services affected?

Anyway we are told that 2+2 seats ala 317/7 is better for commuter routes than 3+2 so you can't us that!! Less coaches = less seats = less space = bad.

I can see why they cut costs, given the lots and lots of zeros on the revenue target figures, but that doesn't make any of it good.

I didn't say it was the best solution, or even a good solution, but it was the easiest and cheapest. Sometimes bad things like this happen, look at WSMR. I do realise about the reductions and they must be frustrating to people. In an ideal world, the 317/7s should go to London Midland and do Liverpool to Birmingham, displacing the 350/2s that now operate that route to the London area to replace the LM 321s, which GA can then have. Problem sorted, BHM-LIV gets more comfortable stock, GA get a bigger fleet, fleet standardisation and save some money. Everybody wins. Sadly this won't happen due to the way the franchising system works.

The problem with the 317/7s isn't the 2+2 seating, it's the absurdly high proportions of seats that are 1st class and the areas for storing the food trolley/massive luggage racks/big tables taking up lots of standing room.

Adam

 

[A-driver]

I find 'gingers' remarks about sitting down drinking tea instead of opening windows slightly worrying...do you really genuinely think that that is what drivers do all day? Most suburban diagrams are so tight that you get 30mins off in a 10hour shift to have a cup of tea. And certainly no time to open windows in the mean time.

In this heat even opening the windows won't make a difference when the train is stationary-it only cools things down when the train is at speed.

 

[Bald Rick]

Increased passenger satisfaction? Ok after their first full year it dropped by 6% to 77% (although if you believed GAs spin you would think it was the best)....second worst in the UK by a mere 1%....oh and that another Abellio Franchise....

Improved performance.....interesting point actually.....just before NXEA left they proved that 80% of the delays were caused by Network Rail.....so as NR finally get their act together GA take all the credit? How about the worst ever PPMs on the GEML over the winter......82% 80% 84%......as I said some of the worst EVER figures.....

NPS scores cover a particular season, and are acknowledged to vary by season, and are thus assessed year on year. For this franchise:

Autumn 2011 (NX) 77%
Autumn 2012 (GA) 83% (+6)

Spring 2012 (GA*) 73%
Spring 2013 (GA) 77% (+4)

* survey taken a matter of weeks into GAs stewardship of the franchise.


Those winter PPMs are not the worst ever for the GEML. Not by a long, long way. NR has improved - but the big change has been in service management / recovery post incident which makes all incidents less disruptive. And this is solely down to GA upping the game on this at senior level whereas NX were not that interested.

Besides, customers don't really care who has made their train late, and ultimately we're all here to serve the customers. The fact is that the largest annual customer research done in this country has shown that GA customers are happier than they were.

 

[oliMw]

I hope all the staff at GA and other TOCs don't take this abuse personally, it has made me think twice about working in the railways

 

[ginger]

I find 'gingers' remarks about sitting down drinking tea instead of opening windows slightly worrying...do you really genuinely think that that is what drivers do all day? Most suburban diagrams are so tight that you get 30mins off in a 10hour shift to have a cup of tea. And certainly no time to open windows in the mean time.

In this heat even opening the windows won't make a difference when the train is stationary-it only cools things down when the train is at speed.

thank you! a sensible comment.....I was referring to depot staff.....surely drivers drive......why are their no staff at Orient Way or other depots to do this? surely when the train is sitting there all day why cant the doors be opened to allow the air in? Happend all the time at gidea park!

 

[306024]

in other news, GA came in, delivered the contract they were required to, increased passenger satisfaction by a record amount for the franchise, improved performance significantly, and reduced the burden on the taxpayer...

#twosidestoeverystory

Blimey this thread has got a bit hot under the collar.

Whoever won the GA franchise would have had the 317/7 plan in their bid I'm certain. Value for money at the end of the day, even if it is morally wrong to reduce seating capacity overall. The first hurdle is to impress the DfT and win the franchise, then worry how you deliver it when you win.

And on performance, credit to Network Rail. I have seen first hand how much better the infrastructure is since the Olympics. There will always be much to do on such an old network that is thrashed to death, but there are many worse lines to commute on judging by comments on this forum.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I hope all the staff at GA and other TOCs don't take this abuse personally, it has made me think twice about working in the railways

Don't, it is a wonderful career, whatever you do. Just have to have the skin of a rhino sometimes

 

[Manchester77]

Ginger you claim that we have 'rose tinted glasses' on however you have severe tunnel vision.

Firstly you condemn the fact that there are 7 317/7s off lease and you feel that the Anglia region should have them because they suffer from such appalling trains(!). However in December 2014 you seem to be forgetting that 13 EMUs will be needed to run electric Liverpool - Manchester via Chat Moss services. With the delay to the Thameslink contract there is little available in terms of additional rolling stock hence why 377s are being hired to FCC etc. Earlier you said something about 'what about stuff even older than 317s, the scrap heap?' It was quite poorly worded so I assume you meant that. Again the way you're thinking is what about stuff unneeded in MY region not about other parts of the country.

And actually I cannot believe you're complaining to the extent you are. Like what's your local lines frequency? Is it 1 tph operated by a pacer/150? Is it so overcrowded sometimes that you if you cant get on you have no other choice but to call for a taxi? I doubt it if your line uses 321s! And I bet you'll come back with its in the London commuter belt or something that its london centric but my local line serves the second biggest urban area behind London. You think you're so hard done to, the people who I commute with on this line would kill for a 'yellow windowed, brown exteriored' EMU such as you describe.

Finally what makes me laugh is that you don't understand why people don't agree with you when an employee who actually knows how thing operate not through your 'rose tinted glasses' but then again what would he know, after all he only works for them

 

[ginger]

NPS scores cover a particular season, and are acknowledged to vary by season, and are thus assessed year on year. For this franchise:

Autumn 2011 (NX) 77%
Autumn 2012 (GA) 83% (+6)

Spring 2012 (GA*) 73%
Spring 2013 (GA) 77% (+4)

* survey taken a matter of weeks into GAs stewardship of the franchise.


Those winter PPMs are not the worst ever for the GEML. Not by a long, long way. NR has improved - but the big change has been in service management / recovery post incident which makes all incidents less disruptive. And this is solely down to GA upping the game on this at senior level whereas NX were not that interested.

mmmm dont quite agree with your first comment....it may be the industry standard but when you are GA senior Management sitting on top of an overbid no investment franchise then every little scrap that can used or twisted to your PR advantage will be used.....if they used that effort in real service improvements then fine....but spin comes before substance.....

On the subject of NXEA and NR relationship.....I agree....I have been screaming for years to get the 2 functions together and at least the Dft recognised that.....but I have heard that Dave Ward is mostly responsible for that....I have seen numerous letters from NXEA to NR pleading to improve their performance but to no avail.....the merging of the 2 functions is sensible and never should have been split (sigh the system)

the winter PPMs were dreadful! EVEN after the implementation of the "new" recovery plan......

however this thread is about the 317/321 demonstrators......and the point I was making earlier before being hijacked by the GA apologists is that now there is an "impass"

what are your thoughts on this point and the fact that 80,000 regular customers (who pay the bills) are now going to suffer dreadful trains for potentially another 7 years?

as I keep saying.......back to thread!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hey ginger, what app did you use to measure the temperature with your iPhone?

I ask because the phone doesn't have a thermometer (besides sensors to measure the CPU temp, battery etc) so you couldn't have got an accurate measurement of the train interior.

In any case, the humidity is what makes it feel bad, not just the temp.

And you say four others also checked the temp? What did they use?

I've never in my life seen people pull out thermometers on a train.

My watch has a thermometer on it, but I need to remove from my wrist and wait for a reading (else it's influenced by body temp) so I find it laughable that you can give temp readings when anyone else would just open the windows!

you find anything to do with "customer service" laughable! Apologist!

 

[oliMw]

mmmm dont quite agree with your first comment....it may be the industry standard but when you are GA senior Management sitting on top of an overbid no investment franchise then every little scrap that can used or twisted to your PR advantage will be used.....if they used that effort in real service improvements then fine....but spin comes before substance.....

Have you not been reading any of the posts, there have been improvements, so stop being rude to staff of greater anglia and other members of the forum, thank you

 

[306024]

Since privatisation there can be few franchises that have been kicked around like a political football more than here in East Anglia. At least it seems that way, and some of us have the bruises to prove it.

Oh for the stability of something like South West Trains. When you have that then rolling stock investment and procurement are easier to justify.

 

[ginger]

Firstly you condemn the fact that there are 7 317/7s off lease and you feel that the Anglia region should have them because they suffer from such appalling trains(!). However in December 2014 you seem to be forgetting that 13 EMUs will be needed to run electric Liverpool - Manchester via Chat Moss services. With the delay to the Thameslink contract there is little available in terms of additional rolling stock hence why 377s are being hired to FCC etc. Earlier you said something about 'what about stuff even older than 317s, the scrap heap?' It was quite poorly worded so I assume you meant that. Again the way you're thinking is what about stuff unneeded in MY region not about other parts of the country.

And actually I cannot believe you're complaining to the extent you are. Like what's your local lines frequency? Is it 1 tph operated by a pacer/150? Is it so overcrowded sometimes that you if you cant get on you have no other choice but to call for a taxi? I doubt it if your line uses 321s! And I bet you'll come back with its in the London commuter belt or something that its london centric but my local line serves the second biggest urban area behind London. You think you're so hard done to, the people who I commute with on this line would kill for a 'yellow windowed, brown exteriored' EMU such as you describe.

Finally what makes me laugh is that you don't understand why people don't agree with you when an employee who actually knows how thing operate not through your 'rose tinted glasses' but then again what would he know, after all he only works for them

compared to other London commuter lines yes we have appalling trains......do we pay some of the highest prices per mile in the UK....yes......are we subsidising the north....Yes.......are your loadings anywhere near ours....no.....nowhere near....

35% of my (and hundreads of thousands of others) is taken by the Dft to subsidise other lines.....take it up with the Dft! and by the way if you want knackered crap yellow 317/321s you are welcome to them!

 

[oliMw]

So then what do we have thin air, or worse pacers...

 

[ginger]

Since privatisation there can be few franchises that have been kicked around like a political football more than here in East Anglia. At least it seems that way, and some of us have the bruises to prove it.

Oh for the stability of something like South West Trains. When you have that then rolling stock investment and procurement are easier to justify.

here here! and the East Anglian lines (courtesey of the commuters) is so profitable it is ridiculous! cash cow for the Dft!

back to thread......does any Rail Professional have any thoughts on the announcement and serious comments I posted earlier?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So then what do we have thin air, or worse pacers...

exactly my point! now the full scale refurb of the 317s/321s appears to be in limbo, what now????
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have you not been reading any of the posts, there have been improvements, so stop being rude to staff of greater anglia and other members of the forum, thank you

I see staff being rude to customers on a daily basis at LST.....and what improvements? lick of paint here, and a great focus on bikes?

Is anyone at home? this is suppose to be a Train Operator......TRAIN.....not bikes.....

TRAINS.......with customers who pay a fortune.....for what precisely?

once again back to thread.......

 

[Dave1987]

ginger without any insults being said:

The 321's are not perfect by any means but they are not dreadful by any means. Like other people have said compared to other trains they are actually quite nice. 321's are simple engineering and on the whole very reliable considering their age. I sign 360's and I prefer 321's. 360's are way too over engineered and I know drivers who sign 379's and they say the same thing about them. Just because they are newer doesn't make them better.

If GA do go ahead with the full refurb of the 321's it would be good as they are starting to get a bit tired, not helped by the way they are treated by some passengers. Drivers are not sat in the mess room drinking tea all the time as you put it, infact on some 10 hour diagrams you might only get a 30 minute pnb!

 

[ginger]

Blimey this thread has got a bit hot under the collar.

Whoever won the GA franchise would have had the 317/7 plan in their bid I'm certain. Value for money at the end of the day, even if it is morally wrong to reduce seating capacity overall. The first hurdle is to impress the DfT and win the franchise, then worry how you deliver it when you win.

And on performance, credit to Network Rail. I have seen first hand how much better the infrastructure is since the Olympics. There will always be much to do on such an old network that is thrashed to death, but there are many worse lines to commute on judging by comments on this forum.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Don't, it is a wonderful career, whatever you do. Just have to have the skin of a rhino sometimes

yes! massive credit to Network Rail for getting their act together! BIG fail for the TOC whos PR spin machine jumps on the back of this and takes credit for their hard work......

and the staff! outside LST they are great.....BUT they always were! Even under NXEA.....LST staff are just rude and not interested.......see it everyday....

It s not the staff.....its the Management!

 

[jon0844]

you find anything to do with "customer service" laughable! Apologist!

I'm currently reporting GA to London Travel Watch about something but, hey, why let facts get in the way of a rant.

Anyway, you forgot to say what app you used (and the others with you) on a phone that doesn't have a thermometer. So, can you let me know this time please?

 

[A-driver]

I see staff being rude to customers on a daily basis at LST......

If you listened more carefully you would also hear the passengers being ride to the staff-and much ruder than the staff are back. When a train is delayed it becomes the fault of the man on the gateline and suddenly becomes justified to swear at them, mock them, talk to them like dirt, make racist comments and so on.

Then people wonder why staff can seem short with passengers.

And before anyone goes on about its what staff are paid for etc, no it isn't. No one on the railway is paid to be sworn at, verbally assaulted, insulted personally etc and as soon as someone swears at me or talks to me I'm those ways I turn my back on them and walk off.

 

[Nym]

point 4. you seem to condone the transportation of human beings (who pay extortionate premium prices) in conditions that would be illegal to transport animal in. why?

I'm sick of hearing that, livestock doesn't have a choice...

As I have said to many people before, "You cram yourself in..."

I hope all the staff at GA and other TOCs don't take this abuse personally, it has made me think twice about working in the railways

You'll always get abuse, even if you're not on your own network, someone will complain at you, see "Mistaken for Staff.". After way too much being complained at when I'm not even in a uniform, I'm tempted to do something along the lines of "Mistaken for giving a [insert word here]." Possibly printing this on a t-shirt...

Don't give up on it though, even with all of the prats on 'either side of the payroll' it is worth it (just!)...

thank you! a sensible comment.....I was referring to depot staff.....surely drivers drive......why are their no staff at Orient Way or other depots to do this? surely when the train is sitting there all day why cant the doors be opened to allow the air in? Happend all the time at gidea park!

Because depot staff have better things to do than messing around with windows, and leaving the doors open may cause many more issues...

 

[causton]

35% of my (and hundreads of thousands of others) is taken by the Dft to subsidise other lines.....take it up with the Dft! and by the way if you want knackered crap yellow 317/321s you are welcome to them!

What would you swap them for? There is nothing wrong with those 317s/321s at the moment... ok, there are a few things, but they are much better than a lot of the services I've been on up north!

I'm still laughing at the fact you think that everybody goes to London and all the other trains in the north of the country have ten passengers on. How about you move there, preferably somewhere without a home internet connection?! Cheers!

 

[Nym]

What would you swap them for? There is nothing wrong with those 317s/321s at the moment... ok, there are a few things, but they are much better than a lot of the services I've been on up north!

I'm still laughing at the fact you think that everybody goes to London and all the other trains in the north of the country have ten passengers on. How about you move there, preferably somewhere without a home internet connection?! Cheers!

Perhaps one should mention the level of supressed demand outside of the former Network South East reigon on the rail network possibly citing what happens when local improvments are carried out in order to attempt attracting passengers to the rail network, where they currently are not.

 

[Aictos]

Not sure if it just me but can certain people stop being so childish towards certain TOCs, it's tiresome!

 

[jon0844]

I'm sick of hearing that, livestock doesn't have a choice...

I think once someone brings up the livestock comparison, we should consider the argument lost!

Let's call it Ginger's Law.

 

[A-driver]

I'm sick of hearing that, livestock doesn't have a choice...

As I have said to many people before, "You cram yourself in..."

Indeed. I worked a rush hour train earlier this week in the extreme evening heat and saw on twitter afterwards numerous complaints about overcrowding and excessive heat on it. It was a train out of Moorgate and was running slightly late. I made announcements at every 'pick up' station telling people that there were other trains 2 mins behind my one but watched in astonishment as people forced their way onto my already way overcrowded train. In fact when I stepped onto the platform to check the pans were up at Drayton park I felt faint just looking inside the coaches and seeing how tightly people had packed themselves in-red faces and sweat dripping down people's faces. I don't know how I got through the journey without a passcom activation as someone had fainted!

I was sweating in a spacious 313 cab with aircon on full blast so can't imagine why people thought it a good idea to do that to themselves in the back! No one needs to get home that desperately that they can't wait a few mins for the next train!

 

[A0wen]

I didn't say it was the best solution, or even a good solution, but it was the easiest and cheapest. Sometimes bad things like this happen, look at WSMR. I do realise about the reductions and they must be frustrating to people. In an ideal world, the 317/7s should go to London Midland and do Liverpool to Birmingham, displacing the 350/2s that now operate that route to the London area to replace the LM 321s, which GA can then have. Problem sorted, BHM-LIV gets more comfortable stock, GA get a bigger fleet, fleet standardisation and save some money. Everybody wins. Sadly this won't happen due to the way the franchising system works.

The problem with the 317/7s isn't the 2+2 seating, it's the absurdly high proportions of seats that are 1st class and the areas for storing the food trolley/massive luggage racks/big tables taking up lots of standing room.

Adam

Sending the 317/7s to LM isn't a good solution for several reasons, the main one is LM has a fairly standardised fleet now in the 350s.

OK - they've got a mix of 2+2 and 3+2 seating - and their challenge is rostering them onto the right routes - ideally the 3+2s should spend all their time running between MK / Tring and Euston with the 2+2s covering London - Birmingham and London - Crewe.

I don't think the Liverpool - Birmingham service is self-contained - I'm fairly sure units then work Birmingham - London services, so mixing 317s (which are slower than the Desiros) would cause delays on what is already a congested route.

Trying to separate the Liverpool - Birmingham service would cause different problems.

The 317/7s should be in use - the challenge is finding something suitable for them to do - perhaps sending them to Northern for use on Manchester - Airport - Crewe services would be a sensible use? That would free up 323s for strengthening other Manchester area services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. I worked a rush hour train earlier this week in the extreme evening heat and saw on twitter afterwards numerous complaints about overcrowding and excessive heat on it. It was a train out of Moorgate and was running slightly late. I made announcements at every 'pick up' station telling people that there were other trains 2 mins behind my one but watched in astonishment as people forced their way onto my already way overcrowded train. In fact when I stepped onto the platform to check the pans were up at Drayton park I felt faint just looking inside the coaches and seeing how tightly people had packed themselves in-red faces and sweat dripping down people's faces. I don't know how I got through the journey without a passcom activation as someone had fainted!

I was sweating in a spacious 313 cab with aircon on full blast so can't imagine why people thought it a good idea to do that to themselves in the back! No one needs to get home that desperately that they can't wait a few mins for the next train!

Perhaps they should 'plumb' that air-con into the passenger areas of the 313s as well

 

[samuelmorris]

Not wishing to further the pretty heated discussion from earlier, but I did want to raise one point on the 'trains are dirty' argument - what on earth is the routine for the 379s? Let's face it, even from a purely objective standpoint, the exterior condition of the entire fleet is absolutely disgraceful, they must be the dirtiest units of any that GA operate. In general I think cleaning is probably the weakest point of the GA operation, I don't remember the units being as filthy under NXEA's tenure - even the recently reliveried 321s are pretty grubby, but nowhere near as bad as the 379s. Contrast this with c2c's 357s which were reliveried longer ago, are pretty much immaculate by comparison, at least on the sides (I can forgive the dust and squashed insects on the yellow front section!).



On topic, I'm really looking forward to seeing this refurbished unit in service - I do use the GEML to Shenfield a fair bit, which at peak times means a 321 (since the Clacton 360s seem to go straight to Chelmsford now), and in the summer time, the heat gets pretty unpleasant (But clearly not 45ºC, I can see the seat covers reaching that when in the sun, but not the air temperature). That plus the fact that it's about time they did something with the doors on 321s - I'm genuinely curious how many incidents there have been of people suffering heart attacks by the shock of another train passing in the opposite direction at high speed.

 

[SprinterMan]

Not wishing to further the pretty heated discussion from earlier, but I did want to raise one point on the 'trains are dirty' argument - what on earth is the routine for the 379s? Let's face it, even from a purely objective standpoint, the exterior condition of the entire fleet is absolutely disgraceful, they must be the dirtiest units of any that GA operate. In general I think cleaning is probably the weakest point of the GA operation, I don't remember the units being as filthy under NXEA's tenure - even the recently reliveried 321s are pretty grubby, but nowhere near as bad as the 379s. Contrast this with c2c's 357s which were reliveried longer ago, are pretty much immaculate by comparison, at least on the sides (I can forgive the dust and squashed insects on the yellow front section!).



On topic, I'm really looking forward to seeing this refurbished unit in service - I do use the GEML to Shenfield a fair bit, which at peak times means a 321 (since the Clacton 360s seem to go straight to Chelmsford now), and in the summer time, the heat gets pretty unpleasant (But clearly not 45ºC, I can see the seat covers reaching that when in the sun, but not the air temperature). That plus the fact that it's about time they did something with the doors on 321s - I'm genuinely curious how many incidents there have been of people suffering heart attacks by the shock of another train passing in the opposite direction at high speed.

Welcome to the forum

I am a big supporter of GA, but I wholeheartedly agree with this. GA keep trains a lot cleaner than NXEA did, EXCEPT the 379s. The 379s are disgracefully dirty most of the time, more brown than white. I have seen some so dirty that they are closer to GWR Chocolate & Cream livery than Polar Bear Blue & White :P I have heard that management have been made aware of this, so hopefully washing of the 379s will be stepped up.

The doors of the 321s are fitted quite loosely to ensure reliable operation, hence the massive bang when passing another train. Another operator (SWT's 455s?) have tightened up the doors on their Mark 3 EMUs to get rid of this problem, so it is fixable, and it would be very nice if GA did this to the 321s (and 317s for that matter).

Adam

 

[badassunicorn]

There are teams of cleaners working round the clock now hand scrubbing the exterior of all the trains, they are aiming to do at least 2 units a day, think they have started by doing all the 317's. It looks like awful work in this heat wearing a protective suit and mask actually scrubbing at the side of the train with what look like brillo pads on sticks. The trains do look a lot smarter afterwards though!

 

[samuelmorris]

Welcome to the forum

I am a big supporter of GA, but I wholeheartedly agree with this. GA keep trains a lot cleaner than NXEA did, EXCEPT the 379s. The 379s are disgracefully dirty most of the time, more brown than white. I have seen some so dirty that they are closer to GWR Chocolate & Cream livery than Polar Bear Blue & White :P I have heard that management have been made aware of this, so hopefully washing of the 379s will be stepped up.

The doors of the 321s are fitted quite loosely to ensure reliable operation, hence the massive bang when passing another train. Another operator (SWT's 455s?) have tightened up the doors on their Mark 3 EMUs to get rid of this problem, so it is fixable, and it would be very nice if GA did this to the 321s (and 317s for that matter).

Adam

Interesting, but "to ensure reliable operation" is worrying - I'm not sure it's justified to reduce noise at the risk of 'Cancelled - due to a problem with the doors' coming up more often. I assume the modified units are still going to be using sliding rather than plug doors?

As for cleaning, I assume fleet-wide it's a simply a case of not having enough people and/or facilities to get them all done often enough. GA are far from the only fleet to have very dirty rolling stock (The 1996 and S8 stock on LUL are also very poor on the outside considering their age), but the fact that several operators (c2c, LO, SWT, and I think LM although I never use the latter so don't have much personal experience there) run very clean fleets shows it can be done. In any case, the 379s aren't just a bit dirty...

The only other thing I noticed is in the new white livery on the 315s, that drain outlet for the pantograph recess - just, eugh.

 

[jon0844]

A white train will always look horrible very quickly, as the NXEC livery showed. And when the livery is slightly uneven (as the side panels aren't perfectly flat) you get dirt that appears to be quite streaky in appearance.

Perhaps the 379s aren't cleaned enough, or perhaps the paint/vinyl just doesn't give up the dirt easily enough when they are washed. Can't they be coated with something to make dirt less likely to stick? Like a sort of wax coating or something?

 

[SprinterMan]

There are teams of cleaners working round the clock now hand scrubbing the exterior of all the trains, they are aiming to do at least 2 units a day, think they have started by doing all the 317's. It looks like awful work in this heat wearing a protective suit and mask actually scrubbing at the side of the train with what look like brillo pads on sticks. The trains do look a lot smarter afterwards though!

The 317s have been looking absolutely superb as of late, this will be why then. This is why it really *****s me off when ginger badmouths staff, as they are doing an unenjoyable and difficult job really quite well.

Adam