A peculiar 1st gen DMU query

[sprinterguy]

SprinterGuy - if you haven't already, then check out the great info on railcar.co.uk as it's 1st Gen DMU nirvana. I can't recall if it's that, or another, site with a marvellous photo of a pair of GWR Hawksworth carriages (suitably modified) marshalled between a pair of Driving Motor Brake units (think it was the single-cab GW cars but it may have been a 1st Gen class).

I agree, that's an absolutely great site, really interesting to have a peruse through.

Once failed at Morley Low Station with the 1300hrs DMU from Huddersfield to Leeds.
I got the protection in between the DMU and the tunnel mouth.
Behind us was a Peak on a Liverpool Newcastle job. He came up behind us a propelled us into Leed City.
I remember that the DMU driver toggeled the gear box and I went round the 2 car set pulling the strings to equalise the brakes.
That was in 1981. When we got to Leeds we went pass to Sheffield Midland on a West Country HST.
We went via Wakefield Westgate down to Kirkgate and up Oakenshaw Bank via Royston Jct ,through Cudworth and joined the S and K at Wath Road Jct.
We then worked the 1655hrs DMU back to Huddersfield via Penistone.( 2 car Metro Cam flyer.)

There's so much in that anecdote that has now changed: Loco hauled Liverpool-Newcastle, the "Peak" and mark 2 carriages in regular service, the DMU...I suppose nowadays the Huddersfield-Leeds would be a 142 or 156 or similar, and the Transpennine working would be a 185, and there'd end up being massive delays as they wouldn't be able to go near each other thanks to their incompatibility!

Although I've various DMU combinations, like 158+150, 142+153, 150+153, and 142+143, I've never seen a 158 work in multiple with a Pacer. Any reason why

I concur, I've never seen a 158+142 combo, not even when watching the stock shunts at Heaton depot. I have seen 158+156+142 ECS, but never the 142 coupled directly to the 158 (Or at least, I can't recall any instance). Assumed their must be some sort of issue there to preclude them working together.

 

[12CSVT]

According to the Platform 5 'Locomotives & Coaching Stock' book classes 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, can work in multiple with each other and classes 142, 143, 144, 170, 172 yet it appears that classes 142, 143, 144 cannot work in multiple with classes 170 and 172.
Is there any technical reason for this, as I always thought these classes have the same multiple work system?

 

[ukrob]

Although I've various DMU combinations, like 158+150, 142+153, 150+153, and 142+143, I've never seen a 158 work in multiple with a Pacer. Any reason why?

I concur, I've never seen a 158+142 combo, not even when watching the stock shunts at Heaton depot. I have seen 158+156+142 ECS, but never the 142 coupled directly to the 158 (Or at least, I can't recall any instance). Assumed their must be some sort of issue there to preclude them working together.

They certainly used to run 158/142 combos in the north west many years ago - no idea if there were regular diagrams or not though. It made for an 'interesting' ride in the 142!

 

[yorksrob]

Apologies for digging this thread up but I thought of it when I saw a Pacer attached to a 158 running out of Leeds towards Doncaster this evening. Both sets were in use and rammed.

 

[sprinterguy]

Ahhh, so such combinations are occuring. So in hindsight, it's probably most likely that they aren't often seen working together not because they can't for whatever reason, but more because a lot of 158 diagrams, with higher speeds, aren't suitable for a 142.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, I think that service is normally a bin, so I presume they had to throw together whatever they had laying around due to a shortage

 

[David]

Is there a problem with the Northern 321s currently? I've seen (and heard about) quite a few DMU vice 321 in the last couple of months. Stock used (that I've seen) is a pair of 142s (!!!), a 156+153, a 158 and a pair of 158s.

Or is there a problem with the 333s, with the 321s being used to cover some Aire Valley diagrams, with whatever is available being chucked out on Leeds - Doncaster diagrams?

 

[AlexS]

Thank you, i haven't had the (dis?) pleasure of working any vacuum braked stock. A nice clear explanation though.

Western kettles throw a spanner in the works as they draw more vac than standard locos, so you have to pull the strings on the whole train before something non western can take it forward. Eep.

 

[D6975]

Is there a problem with the Northern 321s currently? I've seen (and heard about) quite a few DMU vice 321 in the last couple of months. Stock used (that I've seen) is a pair of 142s (!!!), a 156+153, a 158 and a pair of 158s.

Or is there a problem with the 333s, with the 321s being used to cover some Aire Valley diagrams, with whatever is available being chucked out on Leeds - Doncaster diagrams?

I saw a 144 on a 333 diagram when I was in Yorkshire a few weeks ago - they must have been desperate!