Alcohol bans

[wensley]

To some of us, having 'a mere 4 pints' seems more than enough. No wonder we have a problem if people consider that 'normal'.

Why can't we drink sensibly, like most other countries.

Now there I disagree ... 'Binge' drinking refers more to the level of drinking likely to have health impacts, not the effects on an individual.

I'm a fairly well built bloke, but I'm by no means big, and to me four pints has little effect. On somebody else that might give them the sea legs and the full works

It takes a lot to get me drunk, but I'm normally happy just to have a few. But, when I do go all out I'm happy to have a chat and a laugh with friends, cause no trouble and generally I avoid the railway when under the influence ... I'd much rather have a few beers on an evening, a half decent hotel, fry-up the day after and train home

Ceremonial counties are the real counties. The northen boundary of Yorkshire is the River Tees. Cleveland pseudo-county only existed from 1974-1996.

I refuse to accept I live in the same county as Boro!!

As far as anyone I know, or have met, Teesside is very much in its own.

 

[sheff1]

I refuse to accept I live in the same count as Boro!!

As far as anyone I know, or have met, Teesside is very much in its own.

I can empathize with that.

I wish I could find a reason to say Doncaster is not part of South Yorkshire - although recently some claim was made that it was still part of Scotland, which could explain things

 

[transmanche]

TfL alcohol ban does not apply on London Overground as NR conditions apply.

Er, yes it does. TfL Railway Byelaws apply to London Overground.

The Byelaws apply to trains, track and stations that are part of Transport for London‟s railway, including the London Underground, London Overground and Docklands Light Railway networks

4. Alcohol and controlled drugs
(1) No person shall enter, attempt to enter or remain on the railway if he is unfit as a result of being drunk or under the influence of controlled drugs.
(2) No person shall enter, attempt to enter or remain on the railway while in possession of an open container of alcohol, unless expressly permitted to do so by the Operator in a particular area.
(3) No person shall consume alcohol on the railway, unless expressly permitted to do so by the Operator in a particular area.

 

[Mag_seven]

Er, yes it does. TfL Railway Byelaws apply to London Overground.

I was looking at para 4.6 of this document:

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/conditions-of-carriage.pdf

4.6 Alcohol ban - on our buses and Underground trains and in our bus and Underground
stations, you must not:
• consume alcohol
• be in possession of an open container of alcohol
You may be prosecuted if you disobey these requirements on our Underground trains and in our
bus and Underground stations.

There is no reference to Overground however earlier they do cross reference the TfL Railway Byelaws you quote.

 

[transmanche]

I was looking at para 4.6 of this document:

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/conditions-of-carriage.pdf

Yeah, those are the CoCs for the buses and tube only.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I was looking at para 4.6 of this document:

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/conditions-of-carriage.pdf



There is no reference to Overground however earlier they do cross reference the TfL Railway Byelaws you quote.

I think I already mentioned the anomalies somewhere - you can drink on the platform at Barking (NR station) but not on the LU or LO trains, you can drink on the trains at Farringdon (Thameslink) but not on the platform (LU station).

 

[sheff1]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I see on VTEC website that the 1900 Edinbugh - Doncaster on Saturdays is now a 'dry train' until at least mid-September. Hopefully this will enforced with the same rigour as seen at Kings Cross for the post-football dry trains.

 

[yorksrob]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I see on VTEC website that the 1900 Edinbugh - Doncaster on Saturdays is now a 'dry train' until at least mid-September. Hopefully this will enforced with the same rigour as seen at Kings Cross for the post-football dry trains.

I had the misfortune to be on that train a couple of weeks back and found the "dryness" to be a damn nuisance. There didn't appear to be any justification for it either as, with the exception of some rugby fans who got on at Newcastle for the one-off magic rugby weekend and were mostly off by Darlington, the clientele looked no different from those of any other intercity train.

 

[sheff1]

I had the misfortune to be on that train a couple of weeks back and found the "dryness" to be a damn nuisance. There didn't appear to be any justification for it either as, with the exception of some rugby fans who got on at Newcastle for the one-off magic rugby weekend and were mostly off by Darlington, the clientele looked no different from those of any other intercity train.

How strange. Assuming there is only one 'magic rugby weekend', then I was on the train that Saturday and it was most certainly not dry. A large number of Hull rugby fans boarded at Newcastle (full and standing in some coaches) and alighted at York for onward connection - many were drinking openly and without issue.

From York it was absolute mayhem as, as well as the normal Donny Drinkers, the races had been on which swelled the number considerably. As usual, I went into the southernmost carriage after York as the Donny Drinkers tend to board at the rear, but even there much drinking was taking place.

The only announcement I heard on the train was to advise that the catering facilities had been closed leaving Newcastle. No explanation was gven for this (I assumed weight of numbers). There was also no mention prior to boarding of alcohol being banned and no searches were taking place (at least in the vicinity of where I was).

 

[clagmonster]

Yep, this happens for the 1916 and 2016 M'boro services.
Train is stopped short of a line of crowd barriers, passengers detrained, normals entrained into First Class, barriers then moved and the hordes are walked down to the train. Not only does this stop the scrum of passengers boarding/alighting, it removed that biggest PTI risk of a train having to run in past a crowd of drunks, who are invariably very hard to keep a safe distance from the platform edge.

Please could you clarify how the normals are distinguished from the hoardes. Is first class effectively declassified? Not that I am ever likely to travel on the 19:16 or 20:16 York - Boro. Thanks.

Which county is smoggy land officially in these days? I regard it as North Yorkshire, but I don't think it has officially been reinstated and I thought the pretend county of Cleveland had been dispanded. That's something that always puzzles me.

 

[yorksrob]

How strange. Assuming there is only one 'magic rugby weekend', then I was on the train that Saturday and it was most certainly not dry. A large number of Hull rugby fans boarded at Newcastle (full and standing in some coaches) and alighted at York for onward connection - many were drinking openly and without issue.

From York it was absolute mayhem as, as well as the normal Donny Drinkers, the races had been on which swelled the number considerably. As usual, I went into the southernmost carriage after York as the Donny Drinkers tend to board at the rear, but even there much drinking was taking place.

The only announcement I heard on the train was to advise that the catering facilities had been closed leaving Newcastle. No explanation was gven for this (I assumed weight of numbers). There was also no mention prior to boarding of alcohol being banned and no searches were taking place (at least in the vicinity of where I was).

Well that is indeed curious, because when I got on at Waverley, there was a blockade of staff on the barrier telling all the rather sedate looking passengers in no uncertain terms that it was a dry train and threatening to look in people's bags, not to mention several announcements on the platform and train to that effect .

 

[sheff1]

Well that is indeed curious, because when I got on at Waverley, there was a blockade of staff on the barrier telling all the rather sedate looking passengers in no uncertain terms that it was a dry train and threatening to look in people's bags, not to mention several announcements on the platform and train to that effect .

Curiouser & curiouser. I normally travel from Edinburgh on this train and would agree that the clientele there usually seem quite normal. That week though I boarded at Newcastle where, as I mentioned, I saw no alcohol checks.

 

[455driver]

Why can't we drink sensibly, like most other countries.

Because in most other Countries you remain responsible for yourself, in this Country anyone and everyone else is responsible for the drunken idiots!

 

[Robertj21a]

Because in most other Countries you remain responsible for yourself, in this Country anyone and everyone else is responsible for the drunken idiots!

Very true.

Annoying, but true.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had the misfortune to be on that train a couple of weeks back and found the "dryness" to be a damn nuisance. There didn't appear to be any justification for it either as, with the exception of some rugby fans who got on at Newcastle for the one-off magic rugby weekend and were mostly off by Darlington, the clientele looked no different from those of any other intercity train.

It will be a nuisance for anyone simply wanting to carry alcohol in their luggage, e.g. to a friend's, as well.

 

[yorksrob]

Curiouser & curiouser. I normally travel from Edinburgh on this train and would agree that the clientele there usually seem quite normal. That week though I boarded at Newcastle where, as I mentioned, I saw no alcohol checks.

I was having a chat to some of the rugby fans who'd got on at Newcastle and were standing along the aisle. None of them seemed to be ignoring or disobeying the ban from what I could see though.

 

[Flamingo]

It will be a nuisance for anyone simply wanting to carry alcohol in their luggage, e.g. to a friend's, as well.

Don't start that argument off again...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't start that argument off again...

It's a fact, not an argument - some people who wish to carry alcohol for consumption away from the train, if there are any, will be inconvenienced. Whether it is justified or not is an argument, and I was indeed not planning on going *there*

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Llanelli - gang of heavy duty blokes (15 of them) skulling cans of Strongbow awaiting the 09:34 to Shrewsbury... raucous but not too obnoxious.... different group of 10 board Ammanford - their tipple is Guiness - they have six cans each to tide them over till the train gets to Shrewsbury....
A single unit heading in to the wilderness with virtually all of the stations unstaffed.
Can you tell me exactly WHO is going to endorse and impose an alcohol ban on the rail network ? FFS we can't even control class A drugs... are we ever going to get a reality railway ?

 

[Mark62]

LAst nights 18.24 Newcastle to Hexham had a party of drunken women on the train going absolutely crazy. They were knocking back tins of Tennants super strength lager and were completely out of control. I got off at Hexham and they obviously carried on with their journey. There were families with young children on board the train and if they have cars they will probably never take a train again. What a wonderful advert for this country these people are. Sadly the evening trains to Hexham on Saturdays are all a nightmare now.

 

[TimG]

Don't ban alcohol... Ban behaviours and people. Most people can get very drunk without being criminal.

 

[DarloRich]

I guess the aim is to prevent the scumbags giving people a hard time getting off (fortunately I had my bike with me one time; putting force behind the handlebars came in handy)

Interesting that drinking makes you a scumbag yet ramming people with your bike is OK

- Forcing the license holders to stop passing the buck and to refuse those who are too drunk already ... they can blame the railway / supermarkets all they like, but if people really are turning up hammered at 1000 or 1100, why aren't they out on there ear?

Money - pure and simple!

The services need to be more awkward and take longer to the problem towns. Barrow-in-Furness is like one big green room for the Jeremy Kyle show yet it's poor train service and the inordinate time it takes to get to and from there mean few venture out of the place.
Maybe if the service from Middlesbrough was rerouted and called at every stop then the two hour journey time may put all but the diehards off.

Well it might be difficult from Middlesbrough - you could go via Newcastle i suppose. Mind you that might not help. Actually that would be bad. Very bad. Middlebrough, Sunderland & Newcastle plus drink? What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

Not sure about problem towns either - York hasn't been a problem town since about 745AD

Which county is smoggy land officially in these days? I regard it as North Yorkshire, but I don't think it has officially been reinstated and I thought the pretend county of Cleveland had been dispanded. That's something that always puzzles me.

That is an interesting question! Following the abolition of Cleveland Country Council (created out of the North Riding & County Durham) in 1996 the area was split into 3 unitary authorities: Stockton, Hartlepooh, Middlebsrough and Redcar & Cleveland.

It is therefore not within a county as such (for administrative purposes) although it is treated as being within the ceremonial county of North Yorkshire with the boundary in the Tees

Don't ban alcohol... Ban behaviours and people. Most people can get very drunk without being criminal.

Correct! Some form of banning order would be very sensible for "drunken anti social behaviour" - the issue will be enforcement. It must also be part of a wider plan to tackle such issues. That includes dry trains, firm ticket checks at point of origin, BTP presence, arrest/refusal to travel, civil police cooperation + resource sharing etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If people always got thrown off the train in the middle of nowhere with a long walk home when they behaved in this manner, I suspect it'd reduce quite quickly. But how to do that when it's one Guard (or none, in DOO areas) vs. lots of big lads? Hmm.

 

[DarloRich]

If people always got thrown off the train in the middle of nowhere with a long walk home when they behaved in this manner, I suspect it'd reduce quite quickly. But how to do that when it's one Guard (or none, in DOO areas) vs. lots of big lads? Hmm.

I am not. If you chuck me off at Thirsk or Northallerton i can easily get a cab back to Yarm or the Boro. It will cost me less than one from York. Worth the risk. Chances are that without the police you aren't throwing anyone off anyway. Putting someone in the cells overnight would be better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not. If you chuck me off at Thirsk or Northallerton i can easily get a cab back to Yarm or the Boro.

Depends where you're talking about. There was mention of the Heart of Wales above (if I read it right) - Sugar Loaf would be fun

Putting someone in the cells overnight would be better.

Would also help.

 

[DarloRich]

Depends where you're talking about. There was mention of the Heart of Wales above (if I read it right) - Sugar Loaf would be fun .

Agreed but the OP was on about York - Boro

 

[Flamingo]

Last time I got BTP to kick a gang of drunk football fans off the last train (after multiple warnings over the previous hour, including by BTP at a previous stop), the police involved told the station staff they had to pay for a hundred mile cab-ride (x2) for them.

To be fair, Control said no way!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Last time I got BTP to kick a gang of drunk football fans off the last train (after multiple warnings over the previous hour, including by BTP at a previous stop), the police involved told the station staff they had to pay for a hundred mile cab-ride (x2) for them.

Crikey, do the BTP have no sense? Only in the case of children would I assume that sort of duty of care.

To be fair, Control said no way!

Good. Hope they enjoyed their walk/bill.

 

[Flamingo]

Crikey, do the BTP have no sense? Only in the case of children would I assume that sort of duty of care.



Good. Hope they enjoyed their walk/bill.

If they had been children they would'nt have been kicked off - and would have behaved better!

 

[Antman]

Crikey, do the BTP have no sense? Only in the case of children would I assume that sort of duty of care.



Good. Hope they enjoyed their walk/bill.

The police have a duty of care for everybody
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a fact, not an argument - some people who wish to carry alcohol for consumption away from the train, if there are any, will be inconvenienced. Whether it is justified or not is an argument, and I was indeed not planning on going *there*

As I understand it (I'm sure somebody will correct me if I've got this wrong) on Scotrail when alcohol is banned during the evening it can be bought on in a bag and provided it remains out of sight then it isn't a problem, obviously they are not going to search everybodys baggage.

It's rather a shame that the vast majority, who consume sensible amounts of alcohol and don't cause a problem to anybody, have to suffer because of a few idiots:cry: