All Line Rover [ALR] restrictions from 2 January 2011

[DaveNewcastle]

Hull Trains leave Kings Cross at 7:20 and will get you to Peterborough, Grantham, Doncaster etc.

 

[theblackwatch]

From http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc

Set up after privatisation in 1993, ATOC brings together all train companies to preserve and enhance the benefits for passengers of Britain’s national rail network.

I fail to see the "benefits for passengers" here...

 

[nedchester]

From http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc

Set up after privatisation in 1993, ATOC brings together all train companies to preserve and enhance the benefits for passengers of Britain’s national rail network.

I fail to see the "benefits for passengers" here...

Set to see the benefits of the shareholders of the TOCs more like.

 

[transportphoto]

I know the Open Access operators timetable may not fit in... FCC to Peterborough???

 

[90019]

Set up after privatisation in 1993, ATOC brings together all train companies to preserve and enhance the benefits for passengers shareholders of Britain’s national rail network.

There, that's about right.

 

[atomicdanny]

Chiltern / London Marylebone aren't mentioned on there, if from London you could catch a train upto Birmingham Moor Street (and then start from New Street at 10?) or even to leamington spa and catch a cross country voyager from there northwards?

 

[mrcheek]

Chiltern / London Marylebone aren't mentioned on there, if from London you could catch a train upto Birmingham Moor Street (and then start from New Street at 10?) or even to leamington spa and catch a voyager from there northwards?

and by the time it takes a Chiltern service to get to Birmingham, the day is over......

ok, so why isnt FGW mentioned?

 

[158722]

Sad that restrictions have to come to this. Not used one for several years as I get an InterRail One Country pass (usually 189eur for 4 days, valid for a month), when I come back to the UK. This seems to have no restrictions on times or bookings, apart from the sleepers. Only problem is that you (in theory) have to buy in Europe and prove residency outside country of use. Superb ticket if you are eligible to get one and the looks from most on staff range from confusion or indifference to WTF and curiosity as don't get many I'd imagine.

Ironic that non-UK residents can get a far better ticket than anyone 'at home' - I've lived in Portugal for 10 years, hence totally valid, before anyone asks.

 

[imagination]

You could use FGW to Reading/Oxford and XC from there too.

 

[bennorthyork]

This is gutting. Given the price of the ALR anyway compared with passes for any other country in Europe I can't believe it.

 

[Striker]

Hasn't anybody considered sourcing a Brit Rail pass via a European address? I'm sure there's a way. I use these all of the time. Completely flexible and even include the Heathrow Express. The good thing is completely clueless guards not realising the date isn't filled in, or not being interested in seeing the pass at all, in which case a two day pass becomes a three, four, five etc. day pass instead.

http://www.britrail.com/passes

Examples of prices in GBP:


2 day England pass in 2nd Class £64
2 day England pass in 1st Class £89
4 day England pass in 2nd Class £106
4 day England pass in 1st Class £143


2 day Britain pass in 2nd Class £80
2 day Britain pass in 1st Class £109
4 day Britain pass in 2nd Class £131
4 day Britain pass in 1st Class £182

Lots of different variations available right up to the:

Whole month Britain pass in 2nd Class £402
Whole month Britain pass in 1st Class £567

 

[TEW]

You can't buy them via a UK IP address and you have to be resident outside of the UK to be able to buy one so buying one using a European address if you live in the UK is still not allowed.

 

[bnm]

OK, Striker, how do you validate your BritRail pass? You need to provide your passport number at the first station of departure. Not much use to a British passport holder. Train staff also have the right to ask for proof of foreign residency. Travelling with an unvalidated BritRail pass would be the same as ticketless travel, leaving you open to full, undiscounted fares, penalty fares and possibily prosecution. Particularly prosecution if it were proved you were a British citizen using a ticket to which you were not entitled. That's fraud, as is deliberately not filling in 'boxes'.

 

[Striker]

You can't buy them via a UK IP address and you have to be resident outside of the UK to be able to buy one so buying one using a European address if you live in the UK is still not allowed.

The IP address issue is very easy to get around so I'm not going to explain now how to do it.

I know it's only available if you have a European address. The point I'm making is that if you're resourceful, there are ways around this, and the savings are very nice indeed.

OK, Striker, how do you validate your BritRail pass? You need to provide your passport number at the first station of departure.

No you don't.

Not much use to a British passport holder.

I am a British passport holder. That isn't the restriction. You just have to have the pass delivered to a European address.

Train staff also have the right to ask for proof of foreign residency.

Not one single time have I ever been asked for proof of foreign residency by a member of staff. It seems the only "check" for this is that it's sent to a European address.

Travelling with an unvalidated BritRail pass would be the same as ticketless travel, leaving you open to full, undiscounted fares, penalty fares and possibily prosecution.

Reality is a very different matter. Most of the time I've never even had my pass inspected. I suppose it's one of the benefits of people not doing their job properly. The validation is a two stage process. First you get it validated at a train station before travel, which I do. But if you choose a "non-consecutive" pass for slightly more, you don't have to travel on that day. This has the benefit of making the pass look "valid". But by not filling the date in for your chosen days of travel until I'm asked for my ticket, I get basically free travel. Only on very rare occassions has a guard noticed, and all they did was fill in the date for me.

Particularly prosecution if it were proved you were a British citizen using a ticket to which you were not entitled.

I AM a British citizen! :roll: You just need to be RESIDENT abroad. How does the guard know where you live?

That's fraud, as is deliberately not filling in 'boxes'.

All very well in theory but in reality it's not going to happen.

I'm just given people the option. If it's not for you then move along.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If people find the "not validating the pass" a bit questionable, it's still a very good deal indeed. Just be a bit resourceful and it's not a problem at all!

I'll be using it over Christmas, but I'm not saying where.

 

[tony_mac]

this isn't really the place to discuss hypothetical, easy to get away with, but illegal solutions.

I wonder if this was intended to rule out the southbound caledonian sleepers?

 

[John @ home]

I wonder if this was intended to rule out the southbound caledonian sleepers?

No, and it doesn't. ScotRail is not one of the TOCs with restrictions.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I have also noticed that there are some changes to the Welsh Rovers.

The "North & Mid Wales Flexi Rover" is renamed "Explore North & Mid Wales Flexi Rover", increases in price from £53 to £57 for 4 days in 8, but is no longer valid for free travel on the Ffestiniog or Welsh Highland Railways.

Likewise, the "Explore Wales Flexipass" is no longer valid for free travel on Ffestiniog or Welsh Highland Railways.

Other changes I have noted (mainly the West Yorkshire area) are that there are a new set of fares Leeds - York (and vice versa) and stations at either end of the Harrogate Loop (i.e Burley Park, Headingly, Poppleton etc) which are Rte Harrogate and cheaper than the Rte Any Permitted fare. This restores an old routeing option withdrawn a few years after privatisation. There are still some horrendous anomalies in West Yorkshire meaning it is far cheaper to buy a ticket from Huddersfield to say, Bradford, Castleford etc (and travel via Leeds) than it is to buy a ticket to Leeds itself.

PLUSbus is now available to Berkhamsted, Eaglescliffe and the entire Isle of Man (via Ferries to Douglas)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

From http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc

Set up after privatisation in 1993, ATOC brings together all train companies to preserve and enhance the benefits for [strikeout]passengers[/strikeout] shareholders of Britain’s national rail network.

I fail to see the "benefits for passengers" here...

There, that's about right.

Hmmm.
Could someone just remind me please - who are the shareholders of EastCoast aka Directly Operated Railways Limited?

It is a company wholly owned by the Secretary of State, which has been set up as the holding company of any Secretary of State operating company.


. . . and . . .


East Coast will be responsible for the day to day running of the trains and will operate the franchise in accordance with its obligations under the Services Agreement.

Could a Freedom of Information Request be appropriate at this point?

 

[bnm]

From the BritRail website:

http://www.britrail.com/terms-and-conditions

Pass Validation
Passes are issued open dated and must be validated within six months from the date of issue and prior to the first day of use. To validate a rail pass, present it along with your passport to the Railway official at the station of departure. At this time, the first and the last day of validity of the pass as well as the passport number is entered and the passenger must sign the pass. Under no circumstances is the pass holder allowed to validate his or her own pass. In the case of a Flexipass, the passenger must enter the date of travel each day before he/she boards the first train of the day. Failure to comply with this requirement may result in the payment of a fine and the cost of a full fare ticket.

I'll concede the point about residency. However being 'resourceful' is still tantamount to fraud if you are not entitled through either living abroad or by virtue of foreign nationality.

 

[Striker]

From the BritRail website:

http://www.britrail.com/terms-and-conditions


I'll concede the point about residency. However being 'resourceful' is still tantamount to fraud if you are not entitled through either living abroad or by virtue of foreign nationality.

I'll concede that deliberately not filling in the individual days before boarding the first train of the day is questionable.

However, a lot of people could argue that having different prices for residents of different countries in what is supposed to be a single market, i.e. the European Union, is highly illegal.

I am resident in Europe, but if I wasn't, I would happily travel the length and breadth of Britain in first class for an extremely good rate, my conscience clear. You don't have to do this, but there are many others that would.

 

[HORNIMANS]

Having had ALRs since i was a teenager i find the above restrictions nothing more than spiteful. I would like to know how many people on these tickets are on these early trains anyway, 1, 5 30 more! i very much doubt it many at all. If these restrictions go ahead how long before an pm one? Ithink this is the thin end of the wedge to get rid of ALRs altogether. Ilcertainly will be writing to my MP and Phillip Hammond and David Cameron on this subject and I would encourage everyone who wants an ALR to to continue in this country to to the same.

 

[John @ home]

there are a new set of fares Leeds - York (and vice versa) and stations at either end of the Harrogate Loop (i.e Burley Park, Headingly, Poppleton etc) which are Rte Harrogate and cheaper than the Rte Any Permitted fare. This restores an old routeing option withdrawn a few years after privatisation.

I don't understand which routeing option is restored.

York - Burley Park / Headingley and Leeds - Poppleton have remained permitted by both routes because via Garforth is shorter but via Harrogate is on a through train.

The Horsforth - Scarborough nonsense remains. The only fares available are "route Direct". But what does that mean? There are no through trains. The shortest route is via Garforth (73.25 miles). The route via Harrogate (75 miles) is not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route. The Routeing Guide says that both are Permitted Routes but whether either or both are valid with a "route Direct" ticket is anyone's guess.

 

[Striker]

Ilcertainly will be writing to my MP and Phillip Hammond and David Cameron on this subject

David Cameron? Good luck with that!

 

[jopsuk]

Entertainingly, this forum is now a source for the Fact Compiler

 

[button_boxer]

No, and it doesn't. ScotRail is not one of the TOCs with restrictions.

And neither is FGW so the south west sleepers are still OK too.

 

[Zoe]

I read elsewhere that people that had to make a few business trips to London in a week were using All Line Rovers to avoid paying the full Standard Anytime Return fare.

 

[theblackwatch]

And neither is FGW so the south west sleepers are still OK too.

The may well be in 2012 though. If TOCs sees that other TOCs are introducing restrictions, they are (in my view) likely to follow suit. The thin end of the wedge...

 

[142094]

I read elsewhere that people that had to make a few business trips to London in a week were using All Line Rovers to avoid paying the full Standard Anytime Return fare.

One of the easiest ways to save money, that is if you know about the ALR in the first place.

Hopefully this isn't a prelude to including more restrictions or even getting rid of it altogether. I've only done one ALR and more than likely will not be doing another. Instead I'll just take advantage of the availability of stupidly low advance tickets and do it that way.

 

[Zoe]

One of the easiest ways to save money, that is if you know about the ALR in the first place.

I don't think you can blame the TOCs then for wanting these restrictions. They are losing revenue by people taking advantage of the ALR.

 

[142094]

I don't think you can blame the TOCs then for wanting these restrictions. They are losing revenue by people taking advantage of the ALR.

Fair point, however I wonder how many of the people using ALRs for travel like this will instead decide to go by car due to the increase in ticket price between an anytime ticket and ALR? More revenue lost in that case.