Amended timetable for Govia Thameslink Railway services on Brighton mainline

[RichardKing]

Are there any changes to these trains:

1811 Clapham - East Croydon
1837 Clapham - East Croydon
1841 Clapham - East Croydon

There will be very minor changes to the above services. They are as followed:
- The 18:11 will arrive into East Croydon at 18:22 (it currently arrives at 18:21);
- The 18:37 will arrive into East Croydon at 18:46 (it currently arrives at 18:47). Also, this will now be a Gatwick Express service;
- There are no changes to the 18:41.

 

[GodAtum]

There will be very minor changes to the above services. They are as followed:
- The 18:11 will arrive into East Croydon at 18:22 (it currently arrives at 18:21);
- The 18:37 will arrive into East Croydon at 18:46 (it currently arrives at 18:47). Also, this will now be a Gatwick Express service;
- There are no changes to the 18:41.

Thanks. Slightly off topic, but I think the 1st class section of the class 387s are in a very difficult position to work out where to stand on the platform.

 

[Class377/5]

Huh? Arun Valley line trains have run via Redhill off-peak for at least the last 15 years (May 1994 in fact).

The prioritisation of the Gatwick Express distorts a lot of the service patterns in the new timetable with notable 12/13 minute gaps in fast services between London Victoria and East Croydon and bunching of stopping services at Brighton line stations.

It will be interesting to see if they really do stick with this timetable south of East Croydon come December 2018.

Er this is the December 2018 timetable that Govia brought forward in its bid to avoid all the major changes (ie a London Bridge train becoming a Peterborough for example). The timings and pathways on the Brighton Line are now fixed for 2018 Thameslink through trains.

 

[Gareth4949]

Does anyone have a summary of the peak time BML changes into and out of London Bridge to Brighton, Eastbourne and littlehampton

Does anyone know if the 442 will still be used on the other peak time Brighton to London Bridge southern service as it is today or will this become a 377

 

[Stats]

- The 18:37 will arrive into East Croydon at 18:46 (it currently arrives at 18:47). Also, this will now be a Gatwick Express service;

Pretty sure that's an error as it doesn't call at Gatwick. They made the same error publishing it as a Gatwick Express service when they swapped it with the 1826 service in May.

 

[JonathanH]

Huh? Arun Valley line trains have run via Redhill off-peak for at least the last 15 years (May 1994 in fact).

The prioritisation of the Gatwick Express distorts a lot of the service patterns in the new timetable with notable 12/13 minute gaps in fast services between London Victoria and East Croydon and bunching of stopping services at Brighton line stations.

It will be interesting to see if they really do stick with this timetable south of East Croydon come December 2018.

Er this is the December 2018 timetable that Govia brought forward in its bid to avoid all the major changes (ie a London Bridge train becoming a Peterborough for example). The timings and pathways on the Brighton Line are now fixed for 2018 Thameslink through trains.

Yes, I don't dispute that the timings and pathways are now fixed for 2018 and beyond. That is what has always been said. What is interesting is whether it all works in practice because some of the timetabling looks very tight.

PS - following up my comment above, Arun Valley trains were diverted via Redhill in May 1994 when the Thameslink service went 4tph as far as Gatwick Airport. They will now be back in the path they had prior to that change.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

From a passenger point of view it seems to me that the common reason the SWT train is held at Havant is that whilst the Brighton train is late so is the SWT XX00 from waterloo which is typically 5 to 10 mins late departing Petersfield having for some reason lost time in the Godalming area (tsrs ?). If the SWT arrived at Havant on time it would probably be let in in front of the Brighton to Portsmouth 313 however when both trains arrive late it makes sense to send them through in the right order to minimise platforming issues at Portsmouth Harbour.

When you know what you're talking about sunshine, come back & let me know! The xx:00 from Waterloo is usually on time most of the time at Guildford as it has nowt in its way, nor does the xx:30 until just after Guildford.

When I leave Guildford with an xx:04 departure (xx:30 x Waterloo), I just do 40-45 mph, because I know that due to the incompetence of TPU, I follow the stopper to Haslemere, if I go any faster than 40-45 mph, I just get stopped, yet I know that I'll be on time at Haslemere and Petersfield, yet I'm almost guaranteed to be late leaving Havant because of SN.

I can shut off at Bolingehill TP Hut @ 60 mph and coast all the way to Havant and be exactly on time all the way and with my speed dropping as low as ~30 mph and I'll still get stopped because some muppet from SN cannot to the intrinsic task of getting from somewhere east of Havant to Havant on time.

I've been driving the route for the last 20+ years and I know it like the back of my hand and I can drive it with arrogant ease and the problem is SN take priority at Havant, regardless of whether SWT's train is a Cl.1 or 2 and whether it's on time.

The fact of the matter is signallers have not got the gonads or backbone to regulate the service, the vast majority are scared of a manager, well I do know at least 6 who've got the gonads & backbone to tell a manager what to do & that's foxtrot oscar!

They should damned well regulate and if I'm on time and the SN is late, it follows me if I'm on a Havant - Fratton fast, fair enough if it's Havant - Fratton or Cosham, but not if it's stopping en-route.

 

[Bald Rick]

When I leave Guildford with an xx:04 departure (xx:30 x Waterloo), I just do 40-45 mph, because I know that due to the incompetence of TPU, I follow the stopper to Haslemere, if I go any faster than 40-45 mph, I just get stopped, yet I know that I'll be on time at Haslemere and Petersfield,

Now, now. Train planners on here will get upset. It's not incompetence, it's pathing time.

 

[paul1609]

When you know what you're talking about sunshine, come back & let me know! The xx:00 from Waterloo is usually on time most of the time at Guildford as it has nowt in its way, nor does the xx:30 until just after Guildford.

When I leave Guildford with an xx:04 departure (xx:30 x Waterloo), I just do 40-45 mph, because I know that due to the incompetence of TPU, I follow the stopper to Haslemere, if I go any faster than 40-45 mph, I just get stopped, yet I know that I'll be on time at Haslemere and Petersfield, yet I'm almost guaranteed to be late leaving Havant because of SN.

I can shut off at Bolingehill TP Hut @ 60 mph and coast all the way to Havant and be exactly on time all the way and with my speed dropping as low as ~30 mph and I'll still get stopped because some muppet from SN cannot to the intrinsic task of getting from somewhere east of Havant to Havant on time.



I've been driving the route for the last 20+ years and I know it like the back of my hand and I can drive it with arrogant ease and the problem is SN take priority at Havant, regardless of whether SWT's train is a Cl.1 or 2 and whether it's on time.

The fact of the matter is signallers have not got the gonads or backbone to regulate the service, the vast majority are scared of a manager, well I do know at least 6 who've got the gonads & backbone to tell a manager what to do & that's foxtrot oscar!

They should damned well regulate and if I'm on time and the SN is late, it follows me if I'm on a Havant - Fratton fast, fair enough if it's Havant - Fratton or Cosham, but not if it's stopping en-route.

Of course with your twenty years of experience you'll realise that in the off peak timetable Southern only have 1 train an hour thats not fast to either Cosham or Fratton the ex Littlehampton and you'll have looked at TRUST today to see that nearly every Down SWT service was by the WTT 3 to 7 minutes late departing Petersfield

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You trust TRUST do you? Fool!

For one thing you shouldn't be broadcasting or disseminating information from it and two, it's wholly unreliable anyway, always has been a poor system.

There have been multiple issues today including a signal failure, operational incident, railhead contamination and a major train failure (1445-2006).

And SN are inept because they can't even get their trains to Portsmouth on time, there's darn near a fireworks party when one does, a bit like GWR getting a train from Reading to Guildford on time, it happens once or twice a day.

 

[RichardKing]

Does anyone have a summary of the peak time BML changes into and out of London Bridge to Brighton, Eastbourne and littlehampton

Does anyone know if the 442 will still be used on the other peak time Brighton to London Bridge southern service as it is today or will this become a 377

Here is a list of the (Southern) services arriving from/departing to Brighton/Eastbourne/Littlehampton after the timetable change. I will make a note of any changes made:

Morning Peak:
1B02 - Brighton (06:00 DEP) & Hastings (05:08 DEP) to London Bridge (07:17 ARR). No changes made.
1H80 - Littlehampton (05:52 DEP) to London Bridge (07:45 ARR). No changes made.
2C78 - Littlehampton (05:57 DEP) to London Bridge (07:53 ARR). No changes made.
1F80 - Eastbourne (06:21 DEP) to London Bridge (08:01 ARR). No changes made.
1H82 - Littlehampton (06:29 DEP) to London Bridge (08:15 ARR). No changes made.
1B08 - Brighton (07:32 DEP) to London Bridge (08:45 ARR). No changes made.
1F82 - Eastbourne (07:12 DEP) to London Bridge (08:50 ARR). No changes made.

Evening Peak:
1B37 - London Bridge (15:12 DEP) to Brighton (16:12 ARR). This service will run fast from Haywards Heath to Brighton, thus arriving 5 minutes earlier. Also, this will be a Southern service (it's currently a Thameslink).
1B39 - London Bridge (15:42 DEP) to Brighton (16:42 ARR). Same as above, apart from the fact that this service will arrive 3 minutes earlier.
1B41 - London Bridge (16:12 DEP) to Brighton (17:16 ARR). This service, after Haywards Heath, will call at Hassocks, Preston Park and Brighton only, thus arriving 2 minutes earlier.
1B43 - London Bridge (16:42 DEP) to Brighton (17:51 ARR). This service will call at all stations between Haywards Heath and Brighton. It will arrive at Brighton 5 minutes later than it currently does (currently arrives at Brighton at 17:46).
1H92 - London Bridge (16:57 DEP) to Littlehampton (18:40 ARR). No changes made.
1F81 - London Bridge (17:22 DEP) to Eastbourne (18:50 ARR). No changes made.
1H95 - London Bridge (17:40 DEP) to Littlehampton (19:23 ARR). No changes made.
1B47 - London Bridge (17:57 DEP) to Brighton (19:07 ARR). No changes made.
1H99 - London Bridge (18:10 DEP) to Littlehampton (19:53 ARR). This service will depart London Bridge at 18:10 (it currently departs at 18:12).
1F83 - London Bridge (18:23 DEP) to Eastbourne (19:55 ARR). No changes made.
1B71 - London Bridge (19:12 DEP) to Brighton (20:17 ARR). This will be a Southern service (it's currently a Thameslink) running under a new headcode.

I hope this is what you wanted.
If you require any further arrivals or departures, feel free to ask.

The 442s currently operating the 07:32 Brighton - London Bridge and 17:57 London Bridge - Brighton services will soon be replaced by 377s (I do not know what the diagram will be). This will only happen once Thameslink start running the 700s and return the 377s they leased from Southern in 2012.

The 07:12 Eastbourne - London Bridge and 18:23 London Bridge - Eastbourne services will continue to be operated by 442 units until 2018.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pretty sure that's an error as it doesn't call at Gatwick. They made the same error publishing it as a Gatwick Express service when they swapped it with the 1826 service in May.

I did think the same when I initially saw that!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks. Slightly off topic, but I think the 1st class section of the class 387s are in a very difficult position to work out where to stand on the platform.

Is it in the middle of the train?

 

[Class377/5]

377s on lease to Thameslink will not return shortly as the 387s go to GWR then the 377/5 start going to GN (first units go in 2016) not units back to Southern (and for the record no 377s went from Southern in 2012. 377207/211/212 went in 2011 and the remaining ones in 2014).

However the Brighton to London Bridge services will mostly (if not all) be run using DC only 377s and all Thameslink units will be used on the mainline. In part due to the requirements of Electrostars on all the Bedford to Three Bridges services along with extra diagrams created meaning an increase in turn around time making the service more resilient in disruption.

 

[RichardKing]

377s on lease to Thameslink will not return shortly as the 387s go to GWR then the 377/5 start going to GN (first units go in 2016) not units back to Southern (and for the record no 377s went from Southern in 2012. 377207/211/212 went in 2011 and the remaining ones in 2014).

However the Brighton to London Bridge services will mostly (if not all) be run using DC only 377s and all Thameslink units will be used on the mainline. In part due to the requirements of Electrostars on all the Bedford to Three Bridges services along with extra diagrams created meaning an increase in turn around time making the service more resilient in disruption.

Oh, I was told that they would be returned soon. I did not know about the 387s being sent to GWR and the 377/5s to GN.

What will replace the 25 377s being sent to SouthEastern? Surely Southern will need all the 377s they can get their hands on?

 

[Gareth4949]

Thanks for all the info Richard King
Sorry a couple of other questions
Do you know if the 6:09am from Haywards Heath to Londom Bridge will remain a thameslink service and if so I assume it is likely to change from a 387 to a 377

On the return do you know if the 18:43 London Bridge will continue to run as today, as a thameslink service

I'm surprised southern are keeping 6 sets of 442 for just one diagram each way, I was wondering if the other Eastbourne to LB each morning might also change to a 442
6 sets when the only 2 are needed seems a bit OTT

 

[RichardKing]

Thanks for all the info Richard King
Sorry a couple of other questions
Do you know if the 6:09am from Haywards Heath to Londom Bridge will remain a thameslink service and if so I assume it is likely to change from a 387 to a 377

On the return do you know if the 18:43 London Bridge will continue to run as today, as a thameslink service

I'm surprised southern are keeping 6 sets of 442 for just one diagram each way, I was wondering if the other Eastbourne to LB each morning might also change to a 442
6 sets when the only 2 are needed seems a bit OTT

Not a problem!

The 06:09 Haywards Heath to London Bridge will remain a Thameslink service. As for which unit out of the two will be diagrammed to operate the service, I have no idea. In my opinion, I would say that immediately after the timetable change the 387 will continue to be used for that service. However, I'm not sure how long into 2016 that diagram will last for.

The 18:43 will, again, remain a Thameslink service. There is a slight change to the calling pattern in that it will call at Preston Park and not Hassocks.

It seems to me that GTR are expecting teething problems with the 387/2s and are keeping the extra 442s as spares in case anything goes wrong! Either that or they feel that they'll have to use them as temporary replacements for the 25 377s being sent to SouthEastern.

As far as I know, the other Eastbourne - London Bridge service will continue to be operated by 377s.

 

[Minstral25]

Trust me, Redhill users will be glad to be shot of them as they are cancelled half the time anyway - and when they're not, we've always got them running late at least several times a day due to things happening at random halts we almost haven't heard of in Hampshire.

The only downside is that a lot of capacity from Redhill fast to the Gatwick and Crawley areas will be lost, but there are all-day Thameslinks from December (something which should ideally have happened already, ahem), which will make life a million times easier for what is sometimes a surprising volume of passengers for Blackfriars, St Pancras, EMT destinations and Eurostar.

Agree with the skip-stop issue for Redhill but the loss of fast trains to Crawley will be felt at Redhill - it is a well used service. Even so the new Reigate/Tonbridge will be good for reliability as it will become very hard to skip stop Redhill off the branches. Plus turnaround times are very long.

Again Redhill takes the brunt of the "cuts" in service. The Bedford train is useless beyond East Croydon as it takes so long to wind through South London it is faster to catch the following Victoria train and use the underground to get to your destination (about 10 minutes faster to St Pancras)

I know eventually they will go through London Bridge but three years loss of the turn up and go service to/from London Bridge adds to the peak time cut of every useful peak train from Redhill over the last 3 years. People have been losing jobs because of both the unreliability of service and changing at East Croydon with significantly extended journey times

The loss of South Coast services will be missed but the genuine need from Redhill is a service to Brighton which is a major employer from the area. Those services were taken away in 2006/7 when Thameslink was diverted down the quarry line.

Redhill has become vastly reduced version of its previous self with low quality routes replacing good services and lack of imagination by the timetable planners.

I assume the time table decisions have nothing to do with Charles Horton and one of the lead timetable planner both living around Horsham? Whilst Oxted/Uckfield improvements are where another very senior manager lives and another lead timetable planner? Conspiracy theories anyone.................

 

[Phil.]

What the Southern planners don't seem to realise or - more likely - are in denial about is just how big and busy Redhill has become. In the 28 years that I've lived here the place has expanded and continues to expand enormously. I used to travel to London on the 06.13 departure during the period 1987 - 2007. I was one of about fifteen people boarding at Redhill. I took the same train last week for an early start to a journey to Spalding - the train was heaving as was the platform.
Yet still we don't get a worthwhile improvement to the service. We can't even take a direct train to Brighton which, considering Redhill is a major station on the Brighton main line is laughably tragic. We only have 1 train per hour to Tonbridge nowadays which makes that south-eastern bit of England only practically worthwhile to get to via London. When it all goes wrong - for whatever reason - on the down whilst trying to get home from East Croydon there will be train after train after train first stop Gatwick whilst us poor plebs from Redhill (and Coulsdon/Merstham/Earlswood) are left to kick our heels waiting for the crumbs of the service.

 

[Minstral25]

What the Southern planners don't seem to realise or - more likely - are in denial about is just how big and busy Redhill has become. In the 28 years that I've lived here the place has expanded and continues to expand enormously. I used to travel to London on the 06.13 departure during the period 1987 - 2007. I was one of about fifteen people boarding at Redhill. I took the same train last week for an early start to a journey to Spalding - the train was heaving as was the platform.
Yet still we don't get a worthwhile improvement to the service. We can't even take a direct train to Brighton which, considering Redhill is a major station on the Brighton main line is laughably tragic. We only have 1 train per hour to Tonbridge nowadays which makes that south-eastern bit of England only practically worthwhile to get to via London. When it all goes wrong - for whatever reason - on the down whilst trying to get home from East Croydon there will be train after train after train first stop Gatwick whilst us poor plebs from Redhill (and Coulsdon/Merstham/Earlswood) are left to kick our heels waiting for the crumbs of the service.

The Redhill route is just under 10% of traffic generation south of East Croydon, almost 25% of total traffic when excluding the big two of Brighton and Gatwick Airport.

It's treated like an inconvenient branch when it is a significant contributor. Apparently the high fares and extremely poor service are driving customers away according to National Rail numbers but that is not what it feels like on the platforms - it's probably appears like its falling because a higher proportion of users are now buying cheaper tickets from other stations valid via Redhill route

 

[Gareth4949]

377/5 you mentioned in another thread that 2 pairs of 442 will operate the Eastbourne to London peak offices
Do you know if this is the 2 London Bridge trains and has this been confirmed

 

[Chrisgr31]

I assume the time table decisions have nothing to do with Charles Horton and one of the lead timetable planner both living around Horsham? Whilst Oxted/Uckfield improvements are where another very senior manager lives and another lead timetable planner? Conspiracy theories anyone.................

Well bearing in mind the number of turn arounds at Crowborough I guess they don't live south of there!

I did hear that the Uckfield line trains were one of the first ones in the timetable because of the single line sections as they are such a limiting factor. Is that right?

Oh and are there any major changes to trains on the Uckfield line?

 

[Class377/5]

Ù

Oh, I was told that they would be returned soon. I did not know about the 387s being sent to GWR and the 377/5s to GN.

What will replace the 25 377s being sent to SouthEastern? Surely Southern will need all the 377s they can get their hands on?

The 700s will replace the 377s going to Southeastern. Don't forget the Thameslink order is for 115 units or 285 four car units. As Thameslink is around 120 units (its currently 110 diagrams plus spares along with around 20x 365s displaced) thats an increase (approx) of 145 four car units on the patch, easily coping with the loss of 25 units.

However those figures are fag packet numbers and shouldn't be taken as fact but a rough guide.

377/5 you mentioned in another thread that 2 pairs of 442 will operate the Eastbourne to London peak offices
Do you know if this is the 2 London Bridge trains and has this been confirmed

Yes its the London Bridge services. Dont know any timing just is two peak trips. GTR will keep three 10 pairs and should remain coupled most of the time to their partner unit.

Not sure it's confirmed anywhere public yet. Don't forget the 387/2 will now be introduced after timetable change full squadron service expected around about May timetable change.

What the Southern planners don't seem to realise or - more likely - are in denial about is just how big and busy Redhill has become. In the 28 years that I've lived here the place has expanded and continues to expand enormously. I used to travel to London on the 06.13 departure during the period 1987 - 2007. I was one of about fifteen people boarding at Redhill. I took the same train last week for an early start to a journey to Spalding - the train was heaving as was the platform.
Yet still we don't get a worthwhile improvement to the service. We can't even take a direct train to Brighton which, considering Redhill is a major station on the Brighton main line is laughably tragic. We only have 1 train per hour to Tonbridge nowadays which makes that south-eastern bit of England only practically worthwhile to get to via London. When it all goes wrong - for whatever reason - on the down whilst trying to get home from East Croydon there will be train after train after train first stop Gatwick whilst us poor plebs from Redhill (and Coulsdon/Merstham/Earlswood) are left to kick our heels waiting for the crumbs of the service.

I bet Redhill is ruing the day it demanded the railway be diverted away from the town, which the granted for a while.

 

[tsr]

I bet Redhill is ruing the day it demanded the railway be diverted away from the town, which the granted for a while.

That's exactly the opposite of what actually happened - I have no idea where you heard that. Redhill grew up around its 2 original stations, and in fact there was only a small settlement in the Redhill area (as it was originally such poor land - very marshy and boggy) before the railway. Redhill was originally "Warwick Town" or "Reigate Junction" but the Post Office demanded a new name which is why it is now "Redhill". Redhill owes its existence to the railway and was never really there to reject it!

Unfortunately, the railway which currently serves Redhill is mainly down to the good work of the CM&G railway, the L&CR linking with it, and later the SER and their coworkers/successors, and not the LB&SCR and others. The railway companies which in various succession served Brighton actually had very little interest in providing a workable service to Redhill and the Quarry Line was basically built to avoid other SER & successors' metals as far as possible. This sort of behaviour is why there were the 2 original stations (a little like Purley once was too, but with different companies). The stations only merged when interchange traffic demands increased. It almost always turned out to be the Kent (Charing Cross) railway company/operator who really wanted to run trains via Redhill and made the effort. It is perhaps a stroke of luck that Redhill-Earlswood exists today at all.

Regrettably, although the demand for Brighton services has always been there, it is basically the case that no privatised company has ever stood the test of committing to continuously providing a decent service to Brighton. The new emphasis on express services to Reigate and Tonbridge in the 2015 timetable harks back to the days when these were core routes in the eyes of parties who were actually interested in services to Redhill. In fact, it is positively uncanny how it has always seemed impossible to have Brighton and other coastal services via Redhill which have stood the test of time. It may be that everyone has always found that the infrastructure has not changed enough since the earlier days of steam and the heady days of such competing interests that it warrants the drastic measure of proper coastal trains.

Despite all this, Redhill grew up with the railway and with the purpose of serving it. Redhill has flourished with links to Kent and Reading, with many mail and locomotive maintenance links having developed (and then waned), the rise and rapid decline of Chunnel freight plans, and so on. A little further in the past, WWII saw Redhill's role almost beyond any other in England. It was a regional command centre and a hub for troop transport. Many people in Redhill use and work in the transport industry; it is embedded in the town's past. The sad truth is that Redhill has always welcomed the railway, but not everyone within the railway has welcomed Redhill. The December 2015 timetable is another piece of evidence - history is sometimes the best prediction of the future...

 

[30909]

Excellent précis of the history and current situation. IIRC from electrification of the Brighton line through to the end of the 1960s nearly 40 years the timetable through Redhill changed very little with at least 4 trains an hour up and down a stopper each to London Bridge and Victoria with a Reigate portion attaching detatching and a "fast" in the up direction to each terminus calling first at East Croydon then either Clapham Junction or Norwood Junction according to route. in the down they called at Three Bridges Haywards Heath, Preson Park and Brighton. Most of the coastway services were by the Quarry Line with interchange at Three Bridges and Haywards Heath. This all before Gatwick got a dedicated service.

 

[Gareth4949]

Thanks for the info 377/5

I believe your not a fan of the 442s but they do make for a smooth journey and it's nice to have the 2 x 2 seating

There are only 2 London Bridge to Eastbourne services each day so I presume it will be those 2

Any idea if the change of stock will be from dec or May next year?

I believe the 17:22 Lb to Eastbourne was a 442 for awhile a few years back

 

[Class377/5]

Thanks for the info 377/5

I believe your not a fan of the 442s but they do make for a smooth journey and it's nice to have the 2 x 2 seating

There are only 2 London Bridge to Eastbourne services each day so I presume it will be those 2

Any idea if the change of stock will be from dec or May next year?

I believe the 17:22 Lb to Eastbourne was a 442 for awhile a few years back

I'm not a fan of the units really I find them very uncomfortable, yet alone the headaches they've caused me.

I thought the Eastbourne services were already 442s? Plan is the 44s will do the same runs for a few years.

 

[30907]

Excellent précis of the history and current situation. IIRC from electrification of the Brighton line through to the end of the 1960s nearly 40 years the timetable through Redhill changed very little with at least 4 trains an hour up and down a stopper each to London Bridge and Victoria with a Reigate portion attaching detatching and a "fast" in the up direction to each terminus calling first at East Croydon then either Clapham Junction or Norwood Junction according to route. in the down they called at Three Bridges Haywards Heath, Preson Park and Brighton. Most of the coastway services were by the Quarry Line with interchange at Three Bridges and Haywards Heath. This all before Gatwick got a dedicated service.

The London Bridge fasts weren't all day in the period I remember or have timetables for, but there was an Arun Valley every 3 hours (9.18, 12.18 off Vic - I remember because we went E Croydon to Havant that way to see family)

 

[Class377/5]

That's exactly the opposite of what actually happened - I have no idea where you heard that.

I'm not sure where I heard it myself but thank for the correction.

 

[Gareth4949]

Currently there are 2 pairs of 442s to London Bridge per peak
One from Brighton and one from Eastbourne
The other Eastbourne is currently a 377, is this the one you think will change to a 442
Thanks for all your help

 

[387star]

Will south coast to london trains still stop at Horley,

 

[RichardKing]

Currently there are 2 pairs of 442s to London Bridge per peak
One from Brighton and one from Eastbourne
The other Eastbourne is currently a 377, is this the one you think will change to a 442
Thanks for all your help

In my opinion, the only Eastbourne - London Bridge service diagrammed to be operated by two 442 units will remain to be 1F82.