Another reason why frieght should be on the railways

[royaloak]

Fair comment and i do it myself (not in the truck tho i might add) but i would like to think that if the police did see this happen they would be rather more inclined to talk to the person hogging the middle lane in the first place!

Why would the police talk to them, they haven't broken any law and lets be honest by ticketing the "undertaking" car they have solved a "crime" :roll:, not that the police are only interested in targets of course

 

[Teaboy1]

I'm with GEARJAMMER on this one, yes the roads are congested and practically guaranteed to be slow and difficult to use due to cars!

One of the few motoring pleasures we can all experience is to commute and/or drive on the roads between the hours of 21h00 & 05h00.........they are generally pretty good, admitted not so many trucks either, usually see these boys laid up for night in lay-by or truck stops. I can generally get to and from work (could be anywhere England) at an average on the M-ways of 70' ish mph no problem!!

The perfect motorist dont exist, on 4 or 24 wheels!! However we need truckers and if some trucker wants to ram & push sideways for 5 miles some dork in a Micra/Corsa after being carved up, fine!! Generally truckers just want to get home like the rest of us!

 

[jon0844]

if some trucker wants to ram & push sideways for 5 miles some dork in a Micra/Corsa after being carved up, fine!!

Hey! I told you to pick up some Milk on the way home, not a Micra.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

A) It hasnt stated anywhere in the media the lady in question 'carved up' any
truck.

B) You wouldnt be saying that if it was you or your family in that clio.

Its always fine and dandy and acceptable when it doesnt happen to you.
Its scary that there are drivers on the road who find the whole incident quite funny or deserved in some way.

Quite possibly the most sensible post in this thread. The fact that anyone who finds that funny or deserved is quite terrifying, especially since in this instance the person who does find it funny and deserved drives a lorry.

Usually some tw#t sat in the middle lane of a motorway doing 50 mph instead of being in the inside lane out of the way!

Most accidents involving trucks are caused by a car cutting in front of them and braking or going down the inside of them when they are turning left and things like that, when you REALLY know what you are talking about feel free to join in!

Ok. I wasn't going to respond, but you have talked me into it.

I am a driving instructor. As such, I believe that I am VERY qualified to talk about driving habits.

With regards to my comment about tailgaiting, you replied that it is beacuse of people sat in the middle lane doing 50. Right, ok, so that means it is acceptable to tailgate them? Fair enough.

I would like to point out that i do not believe car and van drivers are saints. Far from it. There are drivers who should have their licences taken away permanantly in my view. However, I would say, roughly, that about 75% of car and van drivers drive reasonably safely. Again, roughly, I would bring that figure down to 40-50% of truck drivers, with bus drivers only slightly better. (For the record, the only things that saves them in my view is the fact that they are never travelling fast enough to tailgate.)

I had a 30 mile trip to a meeting earlier today along the M62/M1. This incorporated sections of 50mph limited roadworks. In total, I was tailgated by 5 different lorries for varying amounts of time and by one car. I also saw 4 lorries tailgating other lorries and 2 lorries tailgating cars. At one point, a lorry pulled out from behind another to overtake DESPITE the long line of traffic in that lane, forcing 2 cars into hard braking.

When I left the motorway, I was cut up by a speeding trucker who then overtook 3 cars and another truck over hatched white markings whilst a broken down car was parked at the side of the road, cutting up the second truck as it returned to the correct side of the road. At no point was a signal made. The lights on the truck were also so dirty that it was hard to see the light. All in all, a total of 6 driving offences, including dangerous driving, were commited by the one trucker in 500m of road.

Apart from the one car tailgating me and the one car I saw tailgating a lorry, i did not see any car or van driver do anything dangerous except speeding which, let's be honest, everyone does - truck, car, van, bus, motorcycle - everyone is guilty of that.

Of course, there will be those who say that doesn't happen very often. But i use the roads every day of my life. And, I have to say, that was a pretty normal hour of driving.

I would also like to point out that the inside lane of many motorways has two distinct tracks where trucks have constantly ridden over it which throw my car all over the place, lending argument to the damage caused by trucks theory.

So i don't know Royaloak. If you don't believe i know what i am talking about, nothing i say will remove you of your obliviousness to the atrocious standards of "professional" lorry drivers. Drivers who can, all too easily, become killers.

One last thought. I wonder how many people know what the speed limit is for a lorry on a single carriageway road.......

 

[David]

One last thought. I wonder how many people know what the speed limit is for a lorry on a single carriageway road.......

Depends on the lorry 7.5t or a HGV?

 

[merlodlliw]

Depends on the lorry 7.5t or a HGV?

This is the busiest road into North Wales from the Midlands, how many
A roads have several lanes in one direction, but only one lane on the other side,
many of you know this road, it appears the merc pulled out of the multi lane onto the single lane
of the opposite direction hitting the cattle wagon.
This would never happen on rail, one hopes
http://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/86...emands-crash-figures-for-death-trap-road.aspx

one asks is this road single or dual carriageway.

 

[Kernowfem]

The perfect motorist dont exist, on 4 or 24 wheels!! However we need truckers and if some trucker wants to ram & push sideways for 5 miles some dork in a Micra/Corsa after being carved up, fine!! Generally truckers just want to get home like the rest of us!

Generally it is THE trucker who'll get home...not the poor sod thats been rammed to oblivion in the smaller vehicle.
I do a hell of a lot of off road driving, i own two landrovers. Ive seen the damage that these vehicles can do to others and there a hell of a lot smaller than an HGV.
Come on teaboy, You more or less said it yourself..its ok to ram and push sideways some OTHER dork, but you really wouldnt like to come up against 20tonnes of moving metal. I know for a fact had it been you in that clio you would have needed a clean change of trollies as well as six months in councelling dealing with your PTSD...but rather that then be in a wheelchair for life or your limbs missing eh?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Arent all HGV's limited to 56/57 MPH anyway? or am i just a dumb female driver??

 

[CosherB]

I'm with GEARJAMMER on this one, yes the roads are congested and practically guaranteed to be slow and difficult to use due to cars!

C'mon Teaboy. Motorists pay far more than their share of the cost of roads, HGVs pay a teeny weent weeny bit of their fair share.

HGVs should pay their share before they start moaning about 'too many cars'.

 

[Geezertronic]

I'm doing Birmingham to Bridgend again tomorrow so I wonder what delights I will see this week?

 

[TrainBrain185]

Quite possibly the most sensible post in this thread. The fact that anyone who finds that funny or deserved is quite terrifying, especially since in this instance the person who does find it funny and deserved drives a lorry.



Ok. I wasn't going to respond, but you have talked me into it.

I am a driving instructor. As such, I believe that I am VERY qualified to talk about driving habits.

With regards to my comment about tailgaiting, you replied that it is beacuse of people sat in the middle lane doing 50. Right, ok, so that means it is acceptable to tailgate them? Fair enough.

I would like to point out that i do not believe car and van drivers are saints. Far from it. There are drivers who should have their licences taken away permanantly in my view. However, I would say, roughly, that about 75% of car and van drivers drive reasonably safely. Again, roughly, I would bring that figure down to 40-50% of truck drivers, with bus drivers only slightly better. (For the record, the only things that saves them in my view is the fact that they are never travelling fast enough to tailgate.)

I had a 30 mile trip to a meeting earlier today along the M62/M1. This incorporated sections of 50mph limited roadworks. In total, I was tailgated by 5 different lorries for varying amounts of time and by one car. I also saw 4 lorries tailgating other lorries and 2 lorries tailgating cars. At one point, a lorry pulled out from behind another to overtake DESPITE the long line of traffic in that lane, forcing 2 cars into hard braking.

When I left the motorway, I was cut up by a speeding trucker who then overtook 3 cars and another truck over hatched white markings whilst a broken down car was parked at the side of the road, cutting up the second truck as it returned to the correct side of the road. At no point was a signal made. The lights on the truck were also so dirty that it was hard to see the light. All in all, a total of 6 driving offences, including dangerous driving, were commited by the one trucker in 500m of road.

Apart from the one car tailgating me and the one car I saw tailgating a lorry, i did not see any car or van driver do anything dangerous except speeding which, let's be honest, everyone does - truck, car, van, bus, motorcycle - everyone is guilty of that.

Of course, there will be those who say that doesn't happen very often. But i use the roads every day of my life. And, I have to say, that was a pretty normal hour of driving.

I would also like to point out that the inside lane of many motorways has two distinct tracks where trucks have constantly ridden over it which throw my car all over the place, lending argument to the damage caused by trucks theory.

So i don't know Royaloak. If you don't believe i know what i am talking about, nothing i say will remove you of your obliviousness to the atrocious standards of "professional" lorry drivers. Drivers who can, all too easily, become killers.

One last thought. I wonder how many people know what the speed limit is for a lorry on a single carriageway road.......

Just to confirm this....I was on the A1 just south of Catterick where the road is having a third lane constructed and has a considerable distance of 50mph operation with average speed monitering equipment. On many occasions, whilst observing the 50mph limit, I had many occasions of 40 tons of truck just a few yards off my tailgate. I personally think most, not all truck drivers are nothing short of arrogant and some must think the size of their trucks as extensions of their c**ks!! Many are killers waiting to happen as if anything was to happen to my car, be it an emergency brake, or serious mecanical failure, those trucks would have crushed my car like stamping on an empty soda can.

Whilst on the subject of idiot truck drivers, when the A1 was like an ice rink, a stupid ARGOS truck driver operating a rigid+semi trailer overtook me at speed, then cut back into the inner lane so hard that his semi trailer forced his rear end to the left causing him to nearly jackknife on the ice. Call it Gods Grace, pure luck, or maybe skill, he mananged to regain control, but my heart was in my mouth.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

This is the busiest road into North Wales from the Midlands, how many
A roads have several lanes in one direction, but only one lane on the other side,
many of you know this road, it appears the merc pulled out of the multi lane onto the single lane
of the opposite direction hitting the cattle wagon.
This would never happen on rail, one hopes
http://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/86...emands-crash-figures-for-death-trap-road.aspx

one asks is this road single or dual carriageway.

In the instance of a road having multiple lanes in one direction and a single lane in the other direction (separated by double solid white lines or a single solid white line and a broken white line), or in the event of the middle lane being open to use by drivers in both directions, the speed limit should be treated as if it were a single carriageway road.

A dual carriageway is one where the traffic travelling in one direction is separated from the traffic travelling in the other direction by a divider.

A motorway is NOT the same as a dual carriageway.

Depends on the lorry 7.5t or a HGV?

You could have answered both, but ok!

There are different speed limits for different vehicles on different types of road. Buses and goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes have the same limits. I wonder how many people know what the speed limits are for goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes on Single Carriageways, Dual Carriageways and Motorways and also for a vehicles over 7.5 tonnes laden on the same roads. CLUE: They are all different. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know.

Does that make my query precise enough David?

 

[90019]

There are different speed limits for different vehicles on different types of road. Buses and goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes have the same limits. I wonder how many people know what the speed limits are for goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes on Single Carriageways, Dual Carriageways and Motorways and also for a vehicles over 7.5 tonnes laden on the same roads. CLUE: They are all different. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know.

Does that make my query precise enough David?

For Single Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, and Motorways;
Under 7.5T (and buses) - 50, 60, 70 respectively.
Over 7.5T - 40, 50, 60 respectively.
For completeness, cars are 60, 60 and 70.

Cars with trailers are also the same as under 7.5T, except on motorways, where it's 60.

Good enough?

 

[GearJammer]

One last thought. I wonder how many people know what the speed limit is for a lorry on a single carriageway road.......

40mph........... not that i very often stick to that speed on an open single carriageway road, being a "profesional" HGV driver im quite capable of reading the road ahead and judgeing what is safe and what is not, im also more than aware what my vehicle is capable of when empty at 17tonnes or fully freighted at 44tonnes and all weights inbetween

Oh and incidently, on the very rare occasion that i DO stick to 40mph, i quite often get overtaken in dangerous places, cut up, pulled out in front of and given hand gestures by car drivers but oh boy if you look in the morror you should see all the tailgaters........ all of them cars drivers frustrated that they can't go above the speed limit!

I would also like to point out that the inside lane of many motorways has two distinct tracks where trucks have constantly ridden over it which throw my car all over the place, lending argument to the damage caused by trucks theory.

If its throwing your car all over the place then you clearly don't have proper control of it do you (and your a driving instructor?) and if a motorway does have distinct tracks running down the nearside lane then instead of blaming trucks maybe you ought to blame the local road authority for building a motorway thats not up to the job! You don't see Network rail building a mainline that falls appart when its had a few freight trains running over it do you!

Ok. I wasn't going to respond, but you have talked me into it.

I am a driving instructor. As such, I believe that I am VERY qualified to talk about driving habits.

With regards to my comment about tailgaiting, you replied that it is beacuse of people sat in the middle lane doing 50. Right, ok, so that means it is acceptable to tailgate them? Fair enough.

I would like to point out that i do not believe car and van drivers are saints. Far from it. There are drivers who should have their licences taken away permanantly in my view. However, I would say, roughly, that about 75% of car and van drivers drive reasonably safely. Again, roughly, I would bring that figure down to 40-50% of truck drivers, with bus drivers only slightly better. (For the record, the only things that saves them in my view is the fact that they are never travelling fast enough to tailgate.)

I had a 30 mile trip to a meeting earlier today along the M62/M1. This incorporated sections of 50mph limited roadworks. In total, I was tailgated by 5 different lorries for varying amounts of time and by one car. I also saw 4 lorries tailgating other lorries and 2 lorries tailgating cars. At one point, a lorry pulled out from behind another to overtake DESPITE the long line of traffic in that lane, forcing 2 cars into hard braking.

When I left the motorway, I was cut up by a speeding trucker who then overtook 3 cars and another truck over hatched white markings whilst a broken down car was parked at the side of the road, cutting up the second truck as it returned to the correct side of the road. At no point was a signal made. The lights on the truck were also so dirty that it was hard to see the light. All in all, a total of 6 driving offences, including dangerous driving, were commited by the one trucker in 500m of road.

Apart from the one car tailgating me and the one car I saw tailgating a lorry, i did not see any car or van driver do anything dangerous except speeding which, let's be honest, everyone does - truck, car, van, bus, motorcycle - everyone is guilty of that.

Of course, there will be those who say that doesn't happen very often. But i use the roads every day of my life. And, I have to say, that was a pretty normal hour of driving.

I would also like to point out that the inside lane of many motorways has two distinct tracks where trucks have constantly ridden over it which throw my car all over the place, lending argument to the damage caused by trucks theory.

So i don't know Royaloak. If you don't believe i know what i am talking about, nothing i say will remove you of your obliviousness to the atrocious standards of "professional" lorry drivers. Drivers who can, all too easily, become killers.

One last thought. I wonder how many people know what the speed limit is for a lorry on a single carriageway road.......

I find it hard to believe that a so called driving instructor can come out with so much c**p, you seen all this happen eh...... nice to know that you must have been paying so much attention to your own driving at the time!

I do a hell of a lot of off road driving, i own two landrovers.

Parking on the pavement love does count as off road driving! (joke)

Arent all HGV's limited to 56/57 MPH anyway? or am i just a dumb female driver??

If a firm requests them to be set at 60mph then they will be set at that speed, but if a specific speed is not requested then a dealer will set them at roughly that speed, it depends on the make of truck and the dealer that sets them up, my truck is set to 89kph but then a collegues truck is also set at 89 kph, but his is still faster than mine!

In my opinion this conversation is becoming pointless (but if people do insist on just chucking pointless comments as to who is good or bad at driving then im sure i can play along) the video clip at the start of the thread is NOT a good reason why freight should go back on rail, a good reason would be if rail could do it cheaper and better than road haulage, and it can't, it will never be able to compete with the trucks ability to do door to door deliveries or just in time deliveries, it could'nt compete with that even if road haulage cost the earth and rail haulage was free, now its quite obvious that theres a few on here who think rail is great and trucks are just an evil thing to be hated, but some can look at the situation sensibly and accept that both modes have there flaws and plus points!

 

[90019]

If a firm requests them to be set at 60mph then they will be set at that speed, but if a specific speed is not requested then a dealer will set them at roughly that speed, it depends on the make of truck and the dealer that sets them up, my truck is set to 89kph but then a collegues truck is also set at 89 kph, but his is still faster than mine!

Apparently one of the haulage firms in Ayr have switches in all of their trucks that switch off the limiter and do something else (which I can't remember, I'll ask about it), for when they're unladen, but when it's off and they're on the motorway, they absolutely fly. My friend got passed by one doing about 75-80 up the M71

 

[defitzi]

I'm not going to speculate on how the car managed to attach itself to the front of the lorry, as there are several possibilities.

However, in defence of the lorry driver (seeing as the bonnet of the car was on the drivers side of the lorry), he probably wouldn't have seen the car was there. Looking down from the driving seat of a lorry, visibilty directly in front of him is extremely limited in the 6-8 feet ahead of the cab. Even in a 7.5 ton lorry, you can't see the road for about 3-5 feet ahead. However, that's the only defending I can do. As I said, I'm not going to speculate on how the car got there.

As for getting freight back onto rail, I agree, It can only be a good thing. However, how do you accomodate wagonload freight going to different destinations?

In that video, the lorry would be going to several different garages (possibly in different towns), so that sort of traffic can't really go by rail. Most of the freight that arrives at ports such at Immingham, isn't even a full load for a lorry either, it's known as groupage. (This is the type of loads I used to deliver). What happens, is that factories and companies in another country have perhaps 3 or 4 pallets to send to somewhere in the UK. Obviously, this isn't cost effective to send on 1 lorry. Because of that, they use a freight fowarding company, such as Schenker. They gather loads for the UK from various places in that country, load them into the own trailers for shipping to the UK, where loads are then organised for deliveries through out the UK. The same thing happens in reverse. Another aspect of the nature of thus work, is that it is very sporadic. For example, you can have several days where the majority of the deliveries and collections are in 1 part of the country, then go for a week, with very little to/from that part of the country. As an example of this type of work, here's what a typical day looked like for me.

Deliveries in Middlesborough, Washington and Morpeth, totalling 14 pallets and 3.6 tons in weight. I also had collections in Alnmouth, Hexham, Peterlee and Harrogate totalling 10 pallets, but weighing 4 tons.

Once again, how would this type of freight be accomodated on the railway?

mechanical horse and trailer perhaps

 

[whoshotjimmi]

For Single Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, and Motorways;
Under 7.5T (and buses) - 50, 60, 70 respectively.
Over 7.5T - 40, 50, 60 respectively.
For completeness, cars are 60, 60 and 70.

Cars with trailers are also the same as under 7.5T, except on motorways, where it's 60.

Good enough?

We have a winner!!!! Bit smug though.........

40mph........... not that i very often stick to that speed on an open single carriageway road, being a "profesional" HGV driver im quite capable of reading the road ahead and judgeing what is safe and what is not, im also more than aware what my vehicle is capable of when empty at 17tonnes or fully freighted at 44tonnes and all weights inbetween

You are not doing your argument any good by stating that. What you are essentially saying is that you know better than the highways agency, which set the limit.

If its throwing your car all over the place then you clearly don't have proper control of it do you (and your a driving instructor?) and if a motorway does have distinct tracks running down the nearside lane then instead of blaming trucks maybe you ought to blame the local road authority for building a motorway thats not up to the job! You don't see Network rail building a mainline that falls appart when its had a few freight trains running over it do you!

Taken a bit literally methinks. On a windy day, does your high sided vehicle become a little bit more difficult to control? Same as a car gets buffeted when it comes out from behind a high sided vehicle into the wind. Do you have proper control of your lorry in that situation? I'm guessing you would say that you do, but if I don't have control when the condition of the road moves my vehicle a bit to the left and right, well, i highly doubt truckers do in the wind.

I find it hard to believe that a so called driving instructor can come out with so much c**p, you seen all this happen eh...... nice to know that you must have been paying so much attention to your own driving at the time!

I fail to see how this is crap when all of that was seen whilst simply observing the road. Your own driving is all about the road conditions and how you interpret them. If I see a truck cutting up cars in front of me, I assume that someone will have to either break or change direction. Of course, I could have been concentrating on my own driving at the time and completely missed all of that.......

In my opinion this conversation is becoming pointless (but if people do insist on just chucking pointless comments as to who is good or bad at driving then im sure i can play along) the video clip at the start of the thread is NOT a good reason why freight should go back on rail, a good reason would be if rail could do it cheaper and better than road haulage, and it can't, it will never be able to compete with the trucks ability to do door to door deliveries or just in time deliveries, it could'nt compete with that even if road haulage cost the earth and rail haulage was free, now its quite obvious that theres a few on here who think rail is great and trucks are just an evil thing to be hated, but some can look at the situation sensibly and accept that both modes have there flaws and plus points!

In fairness, I do not believe anyone has said that road haulage could be replaced by rail.

The simple fact is that it never will - and where would we be without road haulage? We certainly wouldn't be able to nip to the local shop to buy groceries. I, personally, am not averse to road haulage, as I am sure most people who have posted on this thread are not averse to it either. What happened was, you revealed you were a trucker and then made a comment about laughing your tits off when you saw the video. This has led posters to air their fears over the safety of truckers.

I am sure that truckers will be defensive about their driving as motorists will be about theirs - that argument will go on forever.

Unfortunately, the truckers who have posted on this thread have show their deep seated and deliberate disregard for the safety of other motorists through the comments they have made. None of the rest of us have. The rest of us, especially Kernowfem, have stated what we regard to be unacceptable behaviour on the roads. The truckers have stated, a number of times, that they deliberately drive unsafely on the road.

I dunno how much more sensibly we can look at it..........

 

[defitzi]

Prescott never did anything but bull****.....so wot's new?
Re trucks-they always pull out too suddenly-after tailgating whatever is in front- it's how they grab any space because being on cruise control, they never, ever, want to slow down from maximum speed to even 1 mph less.....and so occur many many accidents.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

For Single Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, and Motorways;
Under 7.5T (and buses) - 50, 60, 70 respectively.
Over 7.5T - 40, 50, 60 respectively.
For completeness, cars are 60, 60 and 70.

Cars with trailers are also the same as under 7.5T, except on motorways, where it's 60.

We have a winner!!!! Bit smug though.........

All quite correct, but hope you don't mind if I emphasise something that many people just don't understand about this.
If a car driver pops into their local garage to hire a Transit van (or similar) for a day to help a family member with moving some personal stuff, they will be asked to produce their driving licence. Chances are, that licence doesn't even entitle them to drive trucks. They'll take away the hired van assuming that the speed limits that apply to them, their car and their licence will also apply to the van. Wrongly.

90019's table of speeds is correct, but should perhaps point out that small vans fall into the "under 7.5t" class, and are therefore limited to 50mph on single track roads, even if its called "the A1" !

Personally, I think a lot of employed and self employed van drivers are equally oblivious that the classification of their vehicle restricts their max speed in the same way - to 50mph.
(The only exception is to small vans that are based on car bodies). Its got nothing to do with the personal or business use of the van, or the permissions of the drivers licence, or whether there's anything in the back.

As for undertaking drivers permanently fixed to the middle lane . . . . . I'd better not say any more
What about those permanently fixed to the outside lane?

 

[David]

For Single Carriageways, Dual Carriageways, and Motorways;
Under 7.5T (and buses) - 50, 60, 70 respectively. Or the posted speed limit, lowest limit applies
Over 7.5T - 40, 50, 60 respectively. Or the posted speed limit. Lowest limit applies
For completeness, cars are 60, 60 and 70. Or the posted limit. Lowest applies

Cars with trailers are also the same as under 7.5T, except on motorways, where it's 60.

Good enough?

Someone has been googling

9/10 for effort though, you just forgot to mention 1 thing (which I've added).

 

[Kernowfem]

Parking on the pavement love does count as off road driving! (joke)

Careful sweety, you'll hurt my feelings. While i do enjoy a spot of the odd pavement parking, ive never done a school run in my life, and i know what a diff locks for, you're just so harsh GJ! :roll:

 

[whoshotjimmi]

All quite correct, but hope you don't mind if I emphasise something that many people just don't understand about this.
If a car driver pops into their local garage to hire a Transit van (or similar) for a day to help a family member with moving some personal stuff, they will be asked to produce their driving licence. Chances are, that licence doesn't even entitle them to drive trucks. They'll take away the hired van assuming that the speed limits that apply to them, their car and their licence will also apply to the van. Wrongly.

90019's table of speeds is correct, but should perhaps point out that small vans fall into the "under 7.5t" class, and are therefore limited to 50mph on single track roads, even if its called "the A1" !

Personally, I think a lot of employed and self employed van drivers are equally oblivious that the classification of their vehicle restricts their max speed in the same way - to 50mph.
(The only exception is to small vans that are based on car bodies). Its got nothing to do with the personal or business use of the van, or the permissions of the drivers licence, or whether there's anything in the back.

As for undertaking drivers permanently fixed to the middle lane . . . . . I'd better not say any more
What about those permanently fixed to the outside lane?

This raises a whole new series of questions as, legally, the majority of people should not be driving vans. Though you can drive them on a Class B licence, they can exceed 3.5t laden which requires an LGV licence. I personally think spot hire companies should take more responsibility over this. These stipulations are not properly explained to drivers before they take them away. The speed limit issue is something that, in my opinion, is not examined rigourously enough at the beginning. As drivers tend to learn in a car, they are inevitably taught more about the car and then there are often only one or two questions regarding speed limits on the theory test.

I personally believe the theory test should be harder. This would mean that newcomers to the road would have to spend a lot more time and effort leaning the rules and regulations. This would be time they managed themselves and not instruction in the car (as there is a limit to how much information a pupil can take in during a session). I also believe that the theory test should be taken before a person is even allowed to begin learning to drive. This way, more time would be spent on the actual skill of driving as other necessary information would already be embedded within the pupil.

Also, since a wee bit of pedantry has come into the thread, I may as well point out that a goods vehicle not exceeding 7.5t may not use the outside lane of a motorway (on a motorway with 3 lanes or more) if it is fitted with a limiter.

 

[90019]

If a car driver pops into their local garage to hire a Transit van (or similar) for a day to help a family member with moving some personal stuff, they will be asked to produce their driving licence. Chances are, that licence doesn't even entitle them to drive trucks. They'll take away the hired van assuming that the speed limits that apply to them, their car and their licence will also apply to the van. Wrongly.

Personally, I think a lot of employed and self employed van drivers are equally oblivious that the classification of their vehicle restricts their max speed in the same way - to 50mph.

And unfortunately, you get a fair bit less protection in a lot of vans, especially if you're speeding.

I went to the breaker's on saturday and saw this hire van in the pic attached, which has been in a pretty bad smash, most probably fatal. But going and seeing it up close (and many of the other vehicles in there), it really makes you think.
For a while, what with being 18 and all that, I drove a bit quick, and I will admit that I sometimes still do (becuase it's a nice little engine, and satisfying to thrash it on a quiet road every now and again), but since going there and seeing what can result, I've definitely slowed down.

 

[GearJammer]

This is starting to get a bit tiresum, most of you all seem to comment on my (and other truckers) driving habits but from what i can tell none of you are quilified to drive a class 1 artic, have never driven one or traveled in one, or have any idea what driving one in the real world involves, just watching them on motorways does not make any of you experts.......

trucks-they always pull out too suddenly-after tailgating whatever is in front- it's how they grab any space because being on cruise control, they never, ever, want to slow down from maximum speed to even 1 mph less.

So why do other motorists get so irrate when they have to sit behind two trucks overtaking each other, or if they got to sit behind a truck doing 40mph on a single carriageway road?????? Could it be because they never, ever, want to slow down? Sound familiar...........

You are not doing your argument any good by stating that. What you are essentially saying is that you know better than the highways agency, which set the limit.

The highways agencies limits are old and out of date, as any motorist will probably agree.

Unfortunately, the truckers who have posted on this thread have show their deep seated and deliberate disregard for the safety of other motorists through the comments they have made. None of the rest of us have. The rest of us, especially Kernowfem, have stated what we regard to be unacceptable behaviour on the roads. The truckers have stated, a number of times, that they deliberately drive unsafely on the road.

No, its what YOU deam to be unsafe on the road, you and Kernowfem are fully entitelled to your opinion but untill you drive a truck such as mine your never gonna know what its like, or how to deal with situations with a vehicle that size, if i drive over 40mph on a single carriageway road you call me dangerous, if i stick to 40mph i get abuse and s**t from others behind me, no matter what a truck driver does he/she is in the wrong.......

I forget where i was once but i made a comment about being a "professional" HGV driver.... a wise old driver then said to me, 'Nipper, your the scum of the earth when your behind the wheel of that truck, you'll get no respect from anyone......... only when something goes wrong will you suddenly be regarded a professional driver!' I now fully understand what he meant!

Careful sweety, you'll hurt my feelings. While i do enjoy a spot of the odd pavement parking, ive never done a school run in my life, and i know what a diff locks for, you're just so harsh GJ!

Yes i am harsh Kernowfem, its just the way i am, no offence meant tho, it was a toung in cheek comment.......... nice to know you think im sweet tho

 

[Tomnick]

Personally, before I learnt to drive and was required to take a fuller interest in such details, I didn't realise anything over 7.5T was limited to 40mph on a single carriageway (and I bet a majority of 'average' motorists still don't know...) - and that despite plenty of miles, over the years before I was 17, in the passenger seat of a car following HGVs along the single carriageway roads of the Lincolnshire Fens! The reason? Because it was so rare to come across one sticking to the limit - and I understand the Police weren't too concerned about enforcing it either.

Suddenly, over the last couple of years, everyone seems really concerned about it again. I've noticed some of the major supermarkets and other large companies have stuck reminders of the 40mph on the back of their vehicles - aimed at the poor sods stuck behind. I've heard that such companies are monitoring the progress of their drivers and disciplining those who exceed the limit. I don't know how true it is, but I've certainly noticed that I've been getting stuck behind a lot more driving at 40mph!

Do the Highways Agency even influence the National Speed Limit? Obviously they can apply lower speed limits where necessary, but I thought the NSL was specifically set in legislation somewhere - which of course the HA wouldn't singlehandedly be able to change. Either way, I'd rather be sitting behind a truck with a driver who's driving at a speed that suit the road conditions, than behind one who's sitting at 40mph - and (through no fault of his own, of course) probably causing a more dangerous situation as impatient motorists inevitably seek to overtake where there isn't enough room. Perhaps, rather than spending hundreds and thousands of pounds on 'improving' accident blackspots on roads such as the A15 and A17 - where many of the accidents are caused by such dangerous overtaking - we'd be better off looking at the 40mph limit that's the root cause...

There, that's better

 

[Oswyntail]

... just watching them on motorways does not make any of you experts.......

Actually it does. What we are commenting on is not the technique of control (or otherwise) over the truck, it is the behaviour of the driver towards the law and other road users. And this, I believe (from observation and heresay) is appalling.

...So why do other motorists get so irrate when they have to sit behind two trucks overtaking each other, or if they got to sit behind a truck doing 40mph on a single carriageway road?????? Could it be because they never, ever, want to slow down? Sound familiar...........

There is a difference. On a single track road, most drivers would find it frustrating, but accept that passing or a higher speed is impossible. However, on a two- (or three-) lane carriageway, the truck driver has a choice as to when to overtake (don't give me the oft-quoted piffle about the problems of changing gear to match the speed, which, if true, suggests either that the drivers or the trucks are not fit for purpose). As with all road users, when they exercise that choice they are meant to show consideration for other road users. It is the fact that this seldom seems to occur that gets other drivers angry.

...The highways agencies limits are old and out of date, as any motorist will probably agree.

Irrelevant (and possibly untrue). They are the law, and we cannot choose whether we accept them or not (thought, from the number of trucks breaking the limits, it does seem that a large number of truck drivers have difficulty understanding that)

...No, its what YOU deam to be unsafe on the road, you and Kernowfem are fully entitelled to your opinion but untill you drive a truck such as mine your never gonna know what its like, or how to deal with situations with a vehicle that size

No, it is unsafe, and has been defined as such under the law. What is well known is the tendency of operators of any machine to become coccooned from the outside world, and underestimate the dangers of what they are doing. Your arguments that no one can comment unless they are truckers is of a piece with this.

.......... only when something goes wrong will you suddenly be regarded a professional driver!'

Sadly, I agree. The term "professional driver" has come to be synonymous with "cowboy", and, when something goes wrong, it is usually all the other people around who bear the brunt of that "professionalism".

 

[Kernowfem]

Yes i am harsh Kernowfem, its just the way i am, no offence meant tho, it was a toung in cheek comment.......... nice to know you think im sweet tho

Huh, yeah...only when you arent behind the wheel of your lorry

And just to add...i dont think lorry drivers are devils of the road...ust dont think what the driver in this case did was funny

 

[GearJammer]

Suddenly, over the last couple of years, everyone seems really concerned about it again. I've noticed some of the major supermarkets and other large companies have stuck reminders of the 40mph on the back of their vehicles - aimed at the poor sods stuck behind. I've heard that such companies are monitoring the progress of their drivers and disciplining those who exceed the limit. I don't know how true it is, but I've certainly noticed that I've been getting stuck behind a lot more driving at 40mph!

No it is true, they do get monitored, and spoken to if they arrive at destinations early, hence why i would'nt drive for a supermarket chain! Funny tho that the supermarket chains are the worst for limiting there trucks, but do people complain...... noooooooo they go and shop there!

I think there ought to be just one speed for all, in this day a truck can quite safely drive on an open single carriageway road at 50mph, so that is what the speed limit should be for all vehicles, same on motorways, increase trucks speed to 60-65mph and decrease car speed to 60-65 mph, theres such big gap between diffrent types of vehicle speed limits, that if they were all limited the same then they should (in theory) not come into conflict with each other!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Suddenly, over the last couple of years, everyone seems really concerned about it again. I've noticed some of the major supermarkets and other large companies have stuck reminders of the 40mph on the back of their vehicles - aimed at the poor sods stuck behind. I've heard that such companies are monitoring the progress of their drivers and disciplining those who exceed the limit. I don't know how true it is, but I've certainly noticed that I've been getting stuck behind a lot more driving at 40mph

Wohooo, at last, somebody who can see sence

Yes they do get watched and monitered fella, and they get spoken to if they keep arriving at destinations early, hence why i could'nt work for a company like that, but thats just me! These big supermarket chains are the worst for going unnessarily slow on all roads, but do people complain? Nooooooooo they go do there shopping with them!

Either way, I'd rather be sitting behind a truck with a driver who's driving at a speed that suit the road conditions, than behind one who's sitting at 40mph - and (through no fault of his own, of course) probably causing a more dangerous situation as impatient motorists inevitably seek to overtake where there isn't enough room.

My thoughts exactly, but when we do this we get called dangerous, like i said earlier, we can't win!

Personnally i think the speed limit for trucks AND cars on a single carriageway road should be 50-55mph, that way everyone does the same speed and should'nt come into conflict with each other, same on motorways, the speed should be 60-65mph for all, take a leaf out the americans books to certain extent, and leave the 20,30 & 40mph limits as they are in residential areas!

 

[ChrisCooper]

I wonder if it would be better if the dual carriageway speed limits applied to all A roads? I can think of very few A roads where the lower speed limits are really needed, and in the majority of cases the ones where they are already have 50mph limits anyway. There are many A roads where the 40mph restriction for lorries is a real problem. The A47 is a good example, it's a busy West to East route which gets a lot of lorries yet is mostly single carriageway. Getting stuck behind a lorry at 40mph can add a lot onto your journey time, and even if you can get past then you'll just get behind another one. It's even worse when driving a coach as you don't have the power or speed to overtake, so just have to sit behind.

 

[TrainBrain185]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100402/tuk-12-hurt-in-m6-motorway-pile-up-6323e80.html

 

[Oswyntail]

Then again, there is the question of whether lorries are being used appropriate to the actual roads. Ilkley (where I live) is on the A65, which is a significant route between the north west and the M1/A1. The problem being that, for most of its length, the A65 is single carriageway, hilly, relatively narrow, and, particularly where it passes through towns and villages, winding. Yet we still have streams of heavy lorries using it. I do not know, but I would guess that a large number of them are heading for Leeds or the aforementioned motorway, and the A65 is the shortest route from the M6. But these lorries are in no way suitable for the road. The motorways such as the M62 or M65 were built to cope with them, the A65 was not. I would suggest that it would not add too much to the price of haulage to restrict lorries by size to routes that can take them. This would reduce congestion on the lesser A roads, and might even reduce the overall journey time for the trucks