Any news about the Chiltern Power-door Mk3s yet?

[fgwrich]

I have to say, that whilst i have yet to look at the interiors myself, i do think that removing both one of the luggage racks and the internal sliding door was abit of a retrograde step in these Mk3s. Whilst there may not be as much luggage on this as say the GWML, It does now mean that large luggage will either end up on the seats or blocking the vestibule. Also - Whilst the need for the internal sliding doors might have been reduced by moving them to the corridors, it does now mean that a draught is likely to blow through the wider vestibule area in winter, and additional noise doesn't seem to be reduced by the sound of that video, whereas with the original Mk3 interior doors the amount of noise seem to be somewhat reduced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-rW9Do9qRMs

Good, but could be much better.

Do you know (and can you disclose if so) if this will be made possible by breaking up one of the other rakes, or by converting additional mark 3 vehicles?

I'd say most likely that the rakes would be extended by converting additional mark 3 vehicles, afterall DB have enough in storage now.

 

[KiddyKid]

Sets 3 and 4 are at Wabtec, the additional vehicles will be taken from the stored vehicles held by DB Regio as will be any further conversions in the future. Chiltern are on record as saying there will be up to eight sets in total by 2015.

 

[Chester025]

It's interesting to note that Railway Illustrated are quoting that from December the Chiltern pool will consist of 67001, 67010, 67012, 67013, 67014, 67015, 67018 & 67029. Suggesting that they will be an expansion of 'Silver' trains from December and that Arriva have decided that 2 engines are enough for their operations.

 

[CC 72100]

Also - Whilst the need for the internal sliding doors might have been reduced by moving them to the corridors, it does now mean that a draught is likely to blow through the wider vestibule area in winter, and additional noise doesn't seem to be reduced by the sound of that video, whereas with the original Mk3 interior doors the amount of noise seem to be somewhat reduced..

That was my thoughts too. Ok, so you've no longer got opening windows to create draughts, but I still doubt that the vestibule on a mark 3 is the quietest place on the train! I too think they should have kept the internal doors - what if, as I do from time to time, go out to the vestibule to take a phone call as I don't want to disturb the rest of the coach? (even if not travelling in quiet coach) - they'd still hear me.

 

[joeymelksham]

A little while a go I saw a bit of a white flash storm past my school in bathampton but first i thought it was new chiltern stock but I never found out what it was.Does anyone know what it was ........many thanks.

 

[David Goddard]

They operated the 1550 Birmingham Moor Street to Marylebone on Friday 29 June. We travelled in the Business Zone and was very impressed!

 

[4SRKT]

I was on the 18:07 Marylebone > Kidderminster between Warwick Pkwy and Stourbridge Jn on Monday and the stock is very nice. Shame you can't lean out of the windows of course.........

If this is the future of Chiltern's London > Birmingham expresses then Virgin should be seriously worried. Open return Moor Street > Marylebone £95 on a much nicer train? Sounds good to me and will sound good to a lot of others once word gets out.

 

[sprinterguy]

It's interesting to note that Railway Illustrated are quoting that from December the Chiltern pool will consist of 67001, 67010, 67012, 67013, 67014, 67015, 67018 & 67029. Suggesting that they will be an expansion of 'Silver' trains from December and that Arriva have decided that 2 engines are enough for their operations.

DB had better pull their finger out and get 67010 fixed up then (Out of service with major troubles since before the demise of Wrexham & Shropshire)!

If this is the case then there will certainly be a wide variety of liveries to be seen on the Chiltern loco hauled turns, and this definitely points towards an expansion of services, at a time when Chiltern should have all four power-door fitted sets available to them. 67018 is already a regular performer on the Chiltern turns, both the Banbury commuter run and the Birmingham – Marylebone services.

 

[shaun]

I was on the 18:07 Marylebone > Kidderminster between Warwick Pkwy and Stourbridge Jn on Monday and the stock is very nice. Shame you can't lean out of the windows of course.........

If this is the future of Chiltern's London > Birmingham expresses then Virgin should be seriously worried. Open return Moor Street > Marylebone £95 on a much nicer train? Sounds good to me and will sound good to a lot of others once word gets out.

I wonder how many people actually are aware that the stock came from Virgin. The stock that Virgin didn't want, the stock that now outdoes Virgin for comfort and even speed for some parts of London (try getting to Little Venice in the same time via Euston).

Look forward to the 8 sets, that'll pretty much be every fast London - Brum service then.

 

[jopsuk]

and even speed for some parts of London (try getting to Little Venice in the same time via Euston).

Holy strawman batman! Nicely selective there! Euston has better connectivity to more of the places that people arriving from Birmingham might want- plus those Pendolinos serve places other then Brum in rather less time than the old sets used to.

 

[SprinterMan]

Holy strawman batman! Nicely selective there! Euston has better connectivity to more of the places that people arriving from Birmingham might want- plus those Pendolinos serve places other then Brum in rather less time than the old sets used to.

It is strange that MYB-BMO with a 67 is faster than EUS-BHM was 10 years ago with an 86/87/90.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Not so much when you think that the only bit of the run from BMO - MYB that hasnt been resignalled and/or upgraded in the past ten years is the couple of miles of track controlled by the two signal boxes at Banbury. With Evergreen 1,2 & 3, the Cherwell Valley project and all the work on the Snow Hill lines, its basically a completely new railway.

 

[andyfrommk]

It is strange that MYB-BMO with a 67 is faster than EUS-BHM was 10 years ago with an 86/87/90.

My theory on that is, because MYB and BMO have less platforms they have less pointwork for trains to negotiate at 15/10/5MPH* than EUS and BHM so can accelerate to/decelerate from mainline speed closer to the station

*Delete as applicable,

 

[junglejames]

It is strange that MYB-BMO with a 67 is faster than EUS-BHM was 10 years ago with an 86/87/90.

Distance is less to Marylebone.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Distance is less to Marylebone.

It's 112 miles from BMO to MYB. How far is it from BHM to EUS?

 

[barrykas]

It's 112 miles from BMO to MYB. How far is it from BHM to EUS?

NRT distances are 115.25 miles for Euston - New Street via Northampton, 113.25 via the main line, and 111.25 miles for Marylebone - Moor Street (112 to Snow Hill).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Wolfie]

It is strange that MYB-BMO with a 67 is faster than EUS-BHM was 10 years ago with an 86/87/90.

Shorter trains (ie less carriages) though so presumably less weight.

 

[jopsuk]

It is strange that MYB-BMO with a 67 is faster than EUS-BHM was 10 years ago with an 86/87/90.

What was the fastest scheduled service back then? How does it compare to the current fastest 350 service?
(and presumably the 168s can do the run just as fast, if not faster, than the 67+coaches+DVT)

 

[shaun]

What was the fastest scheduled service back then? How does it compare to the current fastest 350 service?
(and presumably the 168s can do the run just as fast, if not faster, than the 67+coaches+DVT)

AFAIK 168s are actually slower than 67s in regards to acceleration?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

They are. They used to make up the difference because they had shorter dwell times, obviously the power doors on mark 3 sets has changed that. If you have a good run (greens all the way, no ESRs or TSRs) then you can do BMO-SOL-WRP-MYB in about 85/86 minutes. It's timetabled for 90.

 

[6Gman]

Sampled the 1555 BMO-SOL today - only 9 minutes, but very impressed. (Especially compared to our later journey on a crowded 221 from [stn]BHM[/stn] to Crewe!)

They are superb internally, and (generally) look pretty impressive outside, except that at the top of the plug doors there's a very obvious and rather crude 'join' to the roof where the fibreglass is clearly visible. An odd detail in an otherwise very creditable piece of work.

 

[sprinterguy]

What was the fastest scheduled service back then? How does it compare to the current fastest 350 service?
(and presumably the 168s can do the run just as fast, if not faster, than the 67+coaches+DVT)

1 hour 38 minutes was the usual journey time between Euston and New Street (and vice versa) in 1992. This compares to a fastest direct journey time of 2 hours 14 minutes with London Midland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not so much when you think that the only bit of the run from BMO - MYB that hasnt been resignalled and/or upgraded in the past ten years is the couple of miles of track controlled by the two signal boxes at Banbury. With Evergreen 1,2 & 3, the Cherwell Valley project and all the work on the Snow Hill lines, its basically a completely new railway.

What is really surprising is that the seemingly extensive upgrade of the Chiltern route has taken place in such an understated manner, with very little fuss and minimal disruption: In comparison to the tumultuous disruption caused by the West Coast upgrade over a period of several years, combined with crazily spiralling costs and then vast, vast amounts of overblown hype about Virgins' shiny new trains that made it suggest that Virgin were the only ones who could acheive the sorts of timings that the VHF timetable delivered. And then Chiltern come along and virtually match it with Turbostars and the cast off mark 3s that Virgin wanted rid of
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Shorter trains (ie less carriages) though so presumably less weight.

But the West Coast electrics had considerably more power than a class 67. And of course, it isn't nearly as straightforward as your suggestion anyway.

 

[4SRKT]

1 hour 38 minutes was the usual journey time between Euston and New Street (and vice versa) in 1992. This compares to a fastest direct journey time of 2 hours 14 minutes with London Midland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What is really surprising is that the seemingly extensive upgrade of the Chiltern route has taken place in such an understated manner, with very little fuss and minimal disruption: In comparison to the tumultuous disruption caused by the West Coast upgrade over a period of several years, combined with crazily spiralling costs and then vast, vast amounts of overblown hype about Virgins' shiny new trains that made it suggest that Virgin were the only ones who could acheive the sorts of timings that the VHF timetable delivered. And then Chiltern come along and virtually match it with Turbostars and the cast off mark 3s that Virgin wanted rid of
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But the West Coast electrics had considerably more power than a class 67. And of course, it isn't nearly as straightforward as your suggestion anyway.

A bit more for sure, but considerably?

 

[SprinterMan]

A bit more for sure, but considerably?

The diesel engine in a 67 produces 3,300hp, while an 87/90's (and the later built 86s) maximum continuous output is 5,000hp and they can produce up to 7,680hp (!) in short bursts. Also, an 87/90 has shorter gearing than a 67.

Adam

 

[sprinterguy]

A bit more for sure, but considerably?

As SprinterMan says, the 5,000hp output of the 86s, 87s and 90s is a canny bit more than the 3,300hp of a class 67.

 

[CC 72100]

Just booked a Marylebone - Moor Street return for early September: roughly £9 with railcard discount. Looking forward to sampling these myself, see if they are as good as everyone says

 

[The Planner]

They are. They used to make up the difference because they had shorter dwell times, obviously the power doors on mark 3 sets has changed that.

I wasn't aware they had altered them, they are all timed as 168s and I don't think the dwells are any greater in the WTT.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Virgins' shiny new trains that made it suggest that Virgin were the only ones who could acheive the sorts of timings that the VHF timetable delivered. And then Chiltern come along and virtually match it with Turbostars and the cast off mark 3s that Virgin wanted rid of

It isn't quite as cut and dry as that though is it. Whilst it is difficult to compare eggs with eggs in this, Virgin's 1R14 in the morning does New St Euston non-stop in 72 minutes, strip out the engineering allowances and you hit 68. 1R21 with three stops (International, Cov and Rugby) does it in 83 minutes (79 without engineering). Chilterns 1F91 does the run in 90 minutes with two stops, 87½ without the engineering. Also, don't believe that Evergreen 3 went without a hitch, there are some horror stories in that one too !

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I wasn't aware they had altered them, they are all timed as 168s and I don't think the dwells are any greater in the WTT.

They still run in 168 timings. The discussion was more about what they are capable of than how they run at the moment. A 67 hauled set will kill a 168 on acceleration but it loses all that time in stations because of the dwell time associated with slam door stock. Power doors dramatically reduce that so we might see further reductions in BMO - MYB timings when most fast trains are loco hauled and the people in the office can work the timetable around that.

 

[Chester025]

Two questions.

Will there be any additional hauled trains during the Olympics?

May be too early to say yet, but will there be any hauled sets out on August Bank Holiday Monday (27/08)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[barrykas]

Two questions.

Will there be any additional hauled trains during the Olympics?

Unlikely. The normal timetable applies except on the busiest days at Wembley (1st, 6th and 7th August).

May be too early to say yet, but will there be any hauled sets out on August Bank Holiday Monday (27/08)?

As a Saturday timetable will be in operation, in a word...no.

Cheers,

Barry