Any updates regarding the return of on-board catering and reopening of lounges at stations?

[raveon]

As per the title, when do you think we will see the railways catching up with the reality of a return to normality?

Update (30/07): two new threads have been created to discuss catering; the first is to discuss what people would like to see:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...u-like-to-see-over-the-next-few-weeks.207148/

and the second is to discuss what is currently (or shortly) being offered:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/catering-on-board-trains-this-summer.207150/

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd imagine not until masks are no longer required. You don't want to be encouraging eating and drinking on board when masks are required, because it's a bit difficult to eat or drink with a mask on.

 

[adc82140]

When the government are no longer financially propping up the railways.

 

[Huntergreed]

As above, I expect when mask mandation ends, I would like it to be later this year, but given how even Whitty and his group are **** scared of winter and the risks of a second peak then (is there evidence to support this?) I can't see this happening sadly

 

[matt]

CrossCountry standard class catering from a static trolley is returning imminently.

 

[westv]

I'd imagine not until masks are no longer required. You don't want to be encouraging eating and drinking on board when masks are required, because it's a bit difficult to eat or drink with a mask on.

But you can now eat in restaurants without wearing a mask.

 

[Bishopstone]

Not least for the livelihoods of those on the railway employed to provide this service: soon, I hope (and expect).

 

[Huntergreed]

The issue with this is, public transport has essentially been portrayed as a deathtrap. The hospitality sector has also essentially been portrayed as a deathtrap.

Public transport has masks mandated for the foreseeable (possibly the remainder of 2020), and Sturgeon has said mask wearing on trains should be 'as automatic as seatbelt wearing in cars' until a vaccine, which would suggest no imminent return.

The hospitality sector has opened with strict distancing, PPE and contact tracing requirements, and it is still worried by many to be 'too dangerous' to be open even now, with many people actively avoiding using the industry through fear of contracting the coronavirus.

If we try and put these two together, I can only imagine how dangerous it will be both perceived by the masses and classed as by SAGE.

I would love to see it return in 2020, but sadly I cannot see this happening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But you can now eat in restaurants without wearing a mask.

Restaurants are applying distancing, with tables spaced out etc. Trains aren't in the same way, at least not long term.

Other than a quick sip of water should this be necessary (though I don't get the modern obsession with this - we never used to carry water in the 80s and 90s like people obsessively do now), if we are going for masks rather than distancing on trains, it will also be necessary to prohibit eating and drinking otherwise it will be ineffective. Therefore providing catering is a non-starter.

 

[LAX54]

Catering is back on the GEML, Buffet on the IC sets, and Trolley on the Stan Exp units on the Norwich run, as masks are needed, special straws inserted into your ears are supplied

 

[westv]

Restaurants are applying distancing, with tables spaced out etc. Trains aren't in the same way, at least not long term.

If catering doesn't come back what happens to the staff when furlough ends?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The issue with this is, public transport has essentially been portrayed as a deathtrap. The hospitality sector has also essentially been portrayed as a deathtrap.

The problem you have is modern trains are the equivalent of indoor spaces which is where the transmission of the virus person to person is proven to be highest probability. Furthermore modern train air conditioning systems are designed to minimise energy use by employing high levels of re circulation. and they don't have the filtering systems of modern aircraft so its possible to circulate the virus through the a/c although studies in buildings suggest it low risk. Then the constant movement of the air can carry the virus (droplets/aerosols) further than 2m before its virility is diluted. The scientists know this which is why face coverings are mandatory (as they are in pretty well every other transport system globally) and it probably made sense to minimise people in that environment when the virus had a much higher prevalence in the community but now its dropped they do need to go on a charm offensive like the airlines have done.

Remember though the purpose of a face covering is to both trap emissions (airborne droplets and aerosols) from individuals as well as filter out particles when breathing. They aren't perfect but they provide considerable reduction of ingesting particles which then lowers the risk of transmission. So taking one off for a few minutes for a drink isn't increasing the risk that much but forget breakfast or lunch on Intercity Services until masks are dropped i would suggest.

 

[bramling]

Restaurants are applying distancing, with tables spaced out etc. Trains aren't in the same way, at least not long term.

Other than a quick sip of water should this be necessary (though I don't get the modern obsession with this - we never used to carry water in the 80s and 90s like people obsessively do now), if we are going for masks rather than distancing on trains, it will also be necessary to prohibit eating and drinking otherwise it will be ineffective. Therefore providing catering is a non-starter.

The reason for the water thing is that trains tend to be busier nowadays and with more people standing for longer periods in more cramped conditions, which increases the likelihood of people passing out, which then results in alarms being operated and delays caused whilst the situation is dealt with, in turn causing other trains to be delayed and increasing risk of more people passing out.

Encouraging people to carry water is one of a number of measures the industry has taken in recent years to attempt to address this issue, with some degree of success.

 

[Smidster]

If catering doesn't come back what happens to the staff when furlough ends?

They likely get made redundant - As will happen to all of those staff at businesses that don't come back.

Some may be able to redeployed elsewhere but ultimately jobs are likely to be lost.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Avanti West Coast Pendolino Shops are now open again if the website is to be believed with a limited range of items only, although the shop onboard the 221 Voyager units remains closed currently.

 

[p.d87]

Avanti West Coast Pendolino Shops are now open again if the website is to be believed with a limited range of items only, although the shop onboard the 221 Voyager units remains closed currently.

The pendolino shops never closed. They've been open throughout with a reduced range of products

 

[route101]

LNER trolley is back with a limited range

 

[221129]

CrossCountry standard class catering from a static trolley is returning imminently.

Returned yesterday.

 

[scotrail158713]

though I don't get the modern obsession with this - we never used to carry water in the 80s and 90s like people obsessively do now

Just because something wasn’t done in the past, it doesn’t mean it should be done. I think a lot of people - myself included - don’t drink enough water, so why make this even worse?

 

[Jonny]

Restaurants are applying distancing, with tables spaced out etc. Trains aren't in the same way, at least not long term.

Other than a quick sip of water should this be necessary (though I don't get the modern obsession with this - we never used to carry water in the 80s and 90s like people obsessively do now), if we are going for masks rather than distancing on trains, it will also be necessary to prohibit eating and drinking otherwise it will be ineffective. Therefore providing catering is a non-starter.

The human body can use large quantities of water - the advice is up to two litres a day, a couple more than that are good and a few more litres are mostly harmless, especially with exercise. That would mean drinking (non-alcoholic drinks) consistently throughout the day.

 

[route101]

I always have water with me when out and about.

 

[trebor79]

it will also be necessary to prohibit eating and drinking otherwise it will be ineffective.

The TOCs that have brought back catering clearly disagree. And removing your face covering to rest or drink had always been one of the exemptions, so the government and their scientific advisors disagree too.
But you are correct that face coverings are ineffective!

Therefore providing catering is a non-starter.

Clearly it isn't.

 

[High Dyke]

When the government are no longer financially propping up the railways.

On that basis, then never...

 

[Journeyman]

I always have water with me when out and about.

It's a bit stupid not to. Dehydration makes me feel dreadful.

 

[Bantamzen]

Just because something wasn’t done in the past, it doesn’t mean it should be done. I think a lot of people - myself included - don’t drink enough water, so why make this even worse?

Indeed, being well hydrated is very much recommended.

 

[6862]

LNER trolley is back with a limited range

Why not the full range? Is it uneconomical to stock the full range or is it somehow felt that by only stocking limited items people will be put off from travelling - which seems to be the main aim of the government and rail companies at the moment? I can't imagine many people will be put off by a limited trolley service. Or is it because if you stock loads of items people have an excuse to not wear their muzzle mask for a long time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, being well hydrated is very much recommended.

It is, but the body is an incredible thing, so if you have a decent drink before boarding the train most likely you won't need one until after you alight.

 

[Huntergreed]

It is, but the body is an incredible thing, so if you have a decent drink before boarding the train most likely you won't need one until after you alight.

We’re allowed to drink on trains, and this has always been permitted by the legislation. Are you suggesting you think this isn’t safe because we have to remove our mask?

Admittedly there is an increased risk, but it’s so infinitesimally small that it’s negligible, especially since 2m distancing is also enforced on public transport still (I thought masks were a mitigation for this, but they’re clearly not)

 

[Bletchleyite]

We’re allowed to drink on trains, and this has always been permitted by the legislation. Are you suggesting you think this isn’t safe because we have to remove our mask?

It's best to avoid removing masks, for two reasons - one, that when it's removed it's not doing anything, and two, that if you remove it you touch it.

 

[221129]

Why not the full range? Is it uneconomical to stock the full range or is it somehow felt that by only stocking limited items people will be put off from travelling - which seems to be the main aim of the government and rail companies at the moment? I can't imagine many people will be put off by a limited trolley service. Or is it because if you stock loads of items people have an excuse to not wear their muzzle mask for a long time?

Because people won't be using it as much as they once were, due to less demand. So less stock to inevitably waste.