Are music standards declining?

[Barrett M95]

Musical standards? Tricky one that. You mentioned Blink182. They're not a punk band in the traditional sense, but the genre has evolved just as music as a whole has. Punk-rock maybe a better term, but categorising aside (which I dislike anyway), music evolves over the years. The standards ARE still the same if you know where to look, but it's harder to wade through the rubbish to find it. Like TV, there's just MORE of it now and a lot of it is low quality, for the short-term consumption of the masses to make a quick buck. But the standards you refer to are there.

Lets take your example again. Blink182 happen to have one of the best drummers in mainstream music, Travis Barker. Now, I don't want a million other drummists posting "yeah, but he's not as good as [insert drummer here]", because that's not my point. Now compare him to Ringo Starr. Of course the Beatles are in a different league to Blink182 as a band, but as a MUSICIAN, the standards are higher with Barker than Starr. So that's what I mean by it depends where you look and what you are looking for in music.

I'll finish with one of my favourite quotes from John Lennon when asked if he thought Ringo was the best drummer in the world, he replied "He's not even the best drummer in The Beatles"

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Neither of Barker / Starr are fit to be in the same time zone as Peart...

As for John Lennon, I think he is the person I dislike most in 'rock' music. Same for Harrison, McCartney and Starr.

 

[mbonwick]

Oh, but you are allowed to say Cher Lloyd's track is s**t.

Yes, yes you are. So long as you word it carefully.

"I think that's s**t, my ears are offended" is perfectly acceptable

 

[Barrett M95]

Neither of Barker / Starr are fit to be in the same time zone as Peart...

Or Chambers, Weckl or Colaiuta but like I said, that wasnt my point!

 

[Clip]

This sounds like the sort of thread that would be started by tweenager after he's discovered that he prefers a deep purple song over most modern day main stream crud but, alas no I posted this to spark an interesting debate, my opinion towards 'are music standards declining' wavers between that maybe it is declining to that good music is always buried beneath a whole pile of dross and its been like that since the sixties and always will be.

I have noticed though its easier to discover good music from the seventies than what it is today.

I have also noticed that pop music now all follows the same bloody style whereas pop music from the 80s (terrible as it was) each song has a distinctive sound to it.

Mainstream modern rock has definitely declined, the so called Pop punk with bands like 'blink 182' and 'bowling for soup' have none of the original spirit of proper punk and seem to be just major record companies playthings.
mainstream Metal just seems to be now just a contest on who can be the loudest. I will admit though some of the less known stuff is pretty good.
I'm hoping this decade or the next one mainstream music standards may pickup again. Heres hoping! The past decade of music was so bland!!! I'm sick of the music scene being dominated by RnB and (that doesnt stand for rythm and blues I'm afraid) and boy band crapolla.
I would love to see another ska revival wave.

There are a couple modern bands that seem promising, namely 'mumford and sons', 'muse', Sonata Arctica and 'Wolfmother'.
I will admit that not all music from the late 20th century was good. Abba surely has to be the worst racket ever inflicted on the radio, some of the 70s disco pop is utterly terrible. 80s and 90s pop is really bad as well.

Opinions?

This whole post is nonsensical and has whispers of old man not liking anything new syndrome.

So what did your dad think of the music you were listening to ? Bet he thought it was **** didnt he? Not quite dame vera lynne maybe?

The problem is , is that whilst i understand pop music is getting worse and more sycophantic - I at least can appreciate that what i listen to is not going to be the worlds favourite nor what is popular*. I even get told off by the missus when i put Coltrane on at 4pm on a sunday really loud.

your forgetting that music is subjective and a lot is aimed(in the pop world) at the lowest common denominator to make the sales. You dont like this nor do you understand this so you make a sweeping , crappy generalisation about how its not as good as it was(and probably get agreement from [people like] yourself who cant just let it lie and think Yes were the greatest thing ever).

And its that sort of attitude which is passed through generations which makes everything you will ever say just wrong in the minds of others. Because who says that YOU are right?


* I dont listen nor like pop but im not going to slag it because it does its job. Just like the Beatles with their ****e brand of pop. And what did your parents say to that? ****e.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes were awesome though!

The thing I don't like is the vanishing talent. In the 70s, a successful band had real talent, their songs were written by themselves, they did everything to do with it.

To be as successful nowadays all you have to do is rap about smacking your b*tch up or say some awful lyrics you didnakt write over a computerised dancebeat.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I will listen to Radio 1 sometimes as there can be some good ones but will put up with some I don't like in order not to miss the good. It's not too much chatter in my opinion but I expect a bit as it is a radio station.

Some music seems to come across as stereotypical-ism so DnB seems to come across as chavs, boozers, kids who drive pimped up cars, hoodies etc. I love quite a lot of it, mainly the unheard ones. I am none of those listed but I find most of them like by D-kay more like an art to music...am I making sense here?

 

[yorksrob]

Yes were awesome though!

The thing I don't like is the vanishing talent. In the 70s, a successful band had real talent, their songs were written by themselves, they did everything to do with it.

To be as successful nowadays all you have to do is rap about smacking your b*tch up or say some awful lyrics you didnakt write over a computerised dancebeat.

I've never got Yes. more a Genesis man myself

 

[Clip]

I've never got Yes. more a Genesis man myself

Genesis were and still are shocking. Trouble is nowadays everything is given to radio and played weeks if not months in advance. Was never like that which led to a less quicker turnover of chart music.

Meh. Modernisation, innit

 

[passmore]

This whole post is nonsensical and has whispers of old man not liking anything new syndrome.

So what did your dad think of the music you were listening to ? Bet he thought it was **** didnt he? Not quite dame vera lynne maybe?

The problem is , is that whilst i understand pop music is getting worse and more sycophantic - I at least can appreciate that what i listen to is not going to be the worlds favourite nor what is popular*. I even get told off by the missus when i put Coltrane on at 4pm on a sunday really loud.

your forgetting that music is subjective and a lot is aimed(in the pop world) at the lowest common denominator to make the sales. You dont like this nor do you understand this so you make a sweeping , crappy generalisation about how its not as good as it was(and probably get agreement from the same old farts as yourself who cant just let it lie and think Yes were the greatest thing ever).

And its that sort of attitude which is passed through generations which makes everything you will ever say just wrong in the minds of others. Because who says that YOU are right?


* I dont listen nor like pop but im not going to slag it because it does its job. Just like the Beatles with their ****e brand of pop. And what did your parents say to that? ****e.

I agree, music is subjective, that's why it's impossible to say that music standards are 'declining' or 'improving', but I don't understand why you have to flame him for having an opinion?

 

[yorksrob]

Genesis were and still are shocking.

Shockingly good

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Shockingly good

And Then There Was Three was their last good album, everything after that is godawful crap

 

[yorksrob]

And Then There Was Three was their last good album, everything after that is godawful crap

I quite like some of the later rockier tunes like Mama and Home By The Sea.

I prefer the Musical Box though.

 

[ACE1888]

Neither of Barker / Starr are fit to be in the same time zone as Peart...

As for John Lennon, I think he is the person I dislike most in 'rock' music. Same for Harrison, McCartney and Starr.

While we differ with regards to the football scene, you are 100% correct with the Lennon/Beatles 'call'

 

[sonorguy]

But the distinctive songs remain popular, while the identikit bilge gets forgotten about. I'm sure in 30 years music from now will seem to have a wide range of styles too. Also the dominant style will change from time to time - in the 90's there was tons of boy/girl band stuff, now it's all "urban"/RnB - one's feelings about music will change based on how much one (dis)likes the current style.

Get yerself down to (preferably one of the smaller) festivals this summer and have a wander!

(Also in before a gazillion bands are suggested )

The best example of this is to watch the repeated (from 1976) TOTP shows on BBC4. The vast majority of everything that's on them is terrible and it makes you realise why they cherry picked for TOTP2. I started to watch the 1976 re-shows every week but realised that they were too awful to contemplate very quickly. You know you're struggling when Brotherhood of Man are genuinely the most talented band on the show.....

 

[43021HST]

Musical standards? Tricky one that. You mentioned Blink182. They're not a punk band in the traditional sense, but the genre has evolved just as music as a whole has. Punk-rock maybe a better term, but categorising aside (which I dislike anyway), music evolves over the years. The standards ARE still the same if you know where to look, but it's harder to wade through the rubbish to find it. Like TV, there's just MORE of it now and a lot of it is low quality, for the short-term consumption of the masses to make a quick buck. But the standards you refer to are there.

Lets take your example again. Blink182 happen to have one of the best drummers in mainstream music, Travis Barker. Now, I don't want a million other drummists posting "yeah, but he's not as good as [insert drummer here]", because that's not my point. Now compare him to Ringo Starr. Of course the Beatles are in a different league to Blink182 as a band, but as a MUSICIAN, the standards are higher with Barker than Starr. So that's what I mean by it depends where you look and what you are looking for in music.

I'll finish with one of my favourite quotes from John Lennon when asked if he thought Ringo was the best drummer in the world, he replied "He's not even the best drummer in The Beatles"

Then again I would like to see the guiterist of blink 182 try to out play someone like Jimmy Page, also the bass lines from most modern rock songs are easier to play compared to a lot of stuff 30 years ago.

 

[Clip]

To be as successful nowadays all you have to do is rap about smacking your b*tch up or say some awful lyrics you didnakt write over a computerised dancebeat.

Really? Look at Adele Her last album has now hit the charts this year twice at different times. Most of it is non computerised music and her song writing is mostly her own and its bloody good.

Again the problem here is peoples misconceptions that because what they like isnt charting then everything else is **** and mass produced by computers.

failing to understand that mostly all chart music has been this way for many years with writers in the background and music in the charts being the most formulaic that they can get away with, fronted by some good looking people.

Honestly its like some of you fail to get to grips with it and like moaning but yet are hypocritical in your observations.

 

[passmore]

Really? Look at Adele Her last album has now hit the charts this year twice at different times. Most of it is non computerised music and her song writing is mostly her own and its bloody good.

Again the problem here is peoples misconceptions that because what they like isnt charting then everything else is **** and mass produced by computers.

failing to understand that mostly all chart music has been this way for many years with writers in the background and music in the charts being the most formulaic that they can get away with, fronted by some good looking people.

Honestly its like some of you fail to get to grips with it and like moaning but yet are hypocritical in your observations.

The problem is hardly 'people's misconceptions', but rather people's own individual tastes.

It doesn't need any degree of understanding to try and like something I dislike, does it?

 

[ACE1888]

People should take music for what it is, one of life's pleasure's whatever your taste
Best band of all time? Status Quo, best writing partnership ? Francis Rossi/Bob Young
I thank you....

 

[blackettstreet]

This sounds like the sort of thread that would be started by tweenager after he's discovered that he prefers a deep purple song over most modern day main stream crud but, alas no I posted this to spark an interesting debate, my opinion towards 'are music standards declining' wavers between that maybe it is declining to that good music is always buried beneath a whole pile of dross and its been like that since the sixties and always will be.

I have noticed though its easier to discover good music from the seventies than what it is today.

I have also noticed that pop music now all follows the same bloody style whereas pop music from the 80s (terrible as it was) each song has a distinctive sound to it.

Mainstream modern rock has definitely declined, the so called Pop punk with bands like 'blink 182' and 'bowling for soup' have none of the original spirit of proper punk and seem to be just major record companies playthings.
mainstream Metal just seems to be now just a contest on who can be the loudest. I will admit though some of the less known stuff is pretty good.
I'm hoping this decade or the next one mainstream music standards may pickup again. Heres hoping! The past decade of music was so bland!!! I'm sick of the music scene being dominated by RnB and (that doesnt stand for rythm and blues I'm afraid) and boy band crapolla.
I would love to see another ska revival wave.

There are a couple modern bands that seem promising, namely 'mumford and sons', 'muse', Sonata Arctica and 'Wolfmother'.
I will admit that not all music from the late 20th century was good. Abba surely has to be the worst racket ever inflicted on the radio, some of the 70s disco pop is utterly terrible. 80s and 90s pop is really bad as well.

Opinions?

Well, I have to agree that pop is a load of rubbish nowadays. It's not a question of singing ability, but rather looks that gets a performer success. However, being a musician, I play a lot of modern metal and I think much of it really has musical quality and interest.

Before people start conjuring up images in their minds of Black sabbath and such, I am not talking about the 1970s/80s! I mean bands which probably no-one else here has heard of, that have emerged in recent years, such as Avenged Sevenfold.

I know there is a lot of ridiculous death/ emo imagery associated with bands such as Slipknot, but some of the music that metal bands produce is really interesting. Well, maybe Slipknot isn't a good example. If you want to see what I mean, listen to Sidewinder by Avenged Sevenfold. It features a lot of harmonies, where two guitars play two different sets of notes at the same time - which I can guarantee takes real skill! It also switches between time signatures, and then for the last two minutes, changes from a metal song to this wierd salsa-funk sort of thing. Very interesting indeed, and with some real musical skill.

That's my opinion, anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...also the bass lines from most modern rock songs are easier to play compared to a lot of stuff 30 years ago.

Well, I am a guitarist (not a particularly good one!) but I love AC/DC's music - which is from around 30 years ago - because it is so simple to play. They wrote simple songs, but they sounded really, really, REALLY good. So simplicity isn't necessarily a bad thing!

 

[SouthEastern-465]

This whole post is nonsensical and has whispers of old man not liking anything new syndrome.

So what did your dad think of the music you were listening to ? Bet he thought it was **** didnt he? Not quite dame vera lynne maybe?

The problem is , is that whilst i understand pop music is getting worse and more sycophantic - I at least can appreciate that what i listen to is not going to be the worlds favourite nor what is popular*. I even get told off by the missus when i put Coltrane on at 4pm on a sunday really loud.

your forgetting that music is subjective and a lot is aimed(in the pop world) at the lowest common denominator to make the sales. You dont like this nor do you understand this so you make a sweeping , crappy generalisation about how its not as good as it was(and probably get agreement from the same old farts as yourself who cant just let it lie and think Yes were the greatest thing ever).

And its that sort of attitude which is passed through generations which makes everything you will ever say just wrong in the minds of others. Because who says that YOU are right?


* I dont listen nor like pop but im not going to slag it because it does its job. Just like the Beatles with their ****e brand of pop. And what did your parents say to that? ****e.

Now that I agree with 100 percent.

Don't get me wrong I think most of todays music is just talentless, but there seems to be a lot of single minded views going on in this thread... "my musics best everyone thinks the same, your is crap end of"...

Oh and personally I like 'The Hoosiers' Good bye Mr.A and Worried about Ray in particular. That's modern what's wrong?

 

[AlterEgo]

My Grandad thought the Beatles were crap, a stain on society and set a bad example to youth in 1963.

My dad loved them.

Some things never change.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

My Grandad thought the Beatles were crap, a stain on society and set a bad example to youth in 1963.

My dad loved them.

Some things never change.

Your Grandad was right!

Would I rather be punched in the face than listen to the Beatles? Yes, I hate them!

 

[starrymarkb]

Then again I would like to see the guiterist of blink 182 try to out play someone like Jimmy Page, also the bass lines from most modern rock songs are easier to play compared to a lot of stuff 30 years ago.

Erm, have you heard any power metal?

 

[AlterEgo]

Your Grandad was right!

Would I rather be punched in the face than listen to the Beatles? Yes, I hate them!

The Beatles are without doubt, the most culturally important of any music group that has ever existed in the history of pop music. Their existence also did more for world peace than any world leader in the 1960s.

Whether you like them or not is a different matter, and one of taste!

Have you heard Taxman, or A Day In The Life? What about Tomorrow Never Knows, which is one of the first trance tracks?

 

[Chapeltom]

I'm 18 and here's my take on music.

I like a lot of music that came out the charts in the mid 90s to early 2000s, Oasis, Lightning Seeds, Stereophonics, Travis a lot of the dance music like ATB, Stardust and even the pop like S Club, its just a part of my early life and I've spent hours on Youtube listening to tracks from that kind of era.

Ignoring the rubbish from Lady Gaga, One Direction, the manufactured awful pop I think there is still a lot of good stuff out there. I'm a massive Arctic Monkeys fan and Suck It & See is probably the 2nd best album they've done.

But I'm into dubstep, drum & bass, electronica, I started listening to dubstep 4 years ago or so, the original stuff from Nero. But even artists like NERO, Chase & Status are changing their music to suit the mainstream and its a shame really. DJ Fresh - Louder was the 1st dubstep track to hit No 1 and its probably one of my favourite songs at the moment. Yes Dubstep is criticised quite a bit, but I personally don't mind having my ears torn to shreds by bass. Its like marmite, you either love or hate it. Skrillex, Rusko, Physical, Downlink, Wickaman, Mt Eden, Excision, Dubsidia, Hoax, Roksonix are my favourite producers at the moment, its just a case of trying to find more and more different artists, Dubstep should stay underground before its brought to the mainstream and ruined. I don't think you get 12 year old kids into Rihanna, Gaga etc into some of the 'dirtier' dubstep. Listen to Physical - Let It Go or Skrillex - Scary Monsters & Nice Sprites and you'll understand what I mean by dirty - its not a bad term, there's no other way of describing the sounds. However its good to see Example (a rare example of a decent pop act), Maverick Sabre etc collaborating with DnB and Dubstep artists though and getting remixes because its giving the mainstream a taste of proper dub while not watering it down for them.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Half the music I hear on the radio seems to be 'samples' of tracks I grew up with. I don't like the term 'samples' because it used to mean a small section of music or vocal, like Utah Saints played about with, but now it seems to mean 'take a track, remove all the vocals except maybe the chorus and add your own on top'.

I will never forget when I was listening to my Best of Enya cd and Boadicea was playing. A friend of mine came into the room and asked why someone had 'ripped off the Fugees' (infact it was the other way round).

There is so much auto-tune in the charts these days it is very hard to know who is actually talented until you hear them live and more often than not you are left disappointed.

Lets not go down the popularity show route either (note how I refuse to call them talent shows).

Really? Look at Adele Her last album has now hit the charts this year twice at different times. Most of it is non computerised music and her song writing is mostly her own and its bloody good....

All you have to do is rap over something to be 'rich and famous', that doesn't mean there aren't talented people making it 'big'.

 

[blackettstreet]

Erm, have you heard any power metal?

lol listen to five minutes of dragonforce and that'll remove any concept of music being 'easy'

 

[MidnightFlyer]

lol listen to five minutes of dragonforce and that'll remove any concept of music being 'easy'

Studioforce you mean, they can't perform live...

 

[blackettstreet]

Studioforce you mean, they can't perform live...

I suppose half their music is computers and sound effects....:roll: