ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

[craigybagel]

A matter of interest, perhaps, Due to problems with 2M39 1529 Swansea to Shrewsbury (via HOWL) this afternoon, 143609 was scrambled to work it forward from Llanelli and changed over at Llandrindod Wells with 2V08 1618 Shrewsbury to Cardiff (via HOWL) From pictures seen it took 150259 with it.

Indeed - they were on the 1422 Fishguard - Swansea, and swapped sets at Llanelli with the 150 working the Heart of Wales. The passengers on 2M39 will have had to change twice, with the swap at Llanelli followed by another at Llandrindod to keep the 143 on the south end of the HOWL.

 

[PHILIPE]

This is going right off a TFWs normal Pacer routes. It would have started off going to Hereford (no booked working for years) Fishguard (recently back on the radar though) and Llandrindod Wells (never had booked working and have just made spasmodic appearances)

 

[Greybeard33]

The 1536 Manchester Airport to Llandudno today is a 5-car 175 formation (107+109)! What stock shortage?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Not sure why, but 1H83 0745 Llandudno to Manchester Airport was doubled up today and five cars.

The 1536 Manchester Airport to Llandudno today is a 5-car 175 formation (107+109)! What stock shortage?

Is that the 3 car blue and white and the 2 car in the new TfW livery?

I saw that this morning at Llandudno about 7.40 ish, I noticed it as it was rare to see them doubled up.

 

[Greybeard33]

Is that the 3 car blue and white and the 2 car in the new TfW livery

Yep. 107 is the 2-car in TfW livery, 109 the 3-car in ATW colours.

 

[PHILIPE]

The 1536 Manchester Airport to Llandudno today is a 5-car 175 formation (107+109)! What stock shortage?

Journey Check this morning was saying that it was due to unit faults. Perhaps they were trying to form one train with enough working engines between them.

This afternoon the excuse is "safety checks" on units. Almost every train through Llandaf during the morning peak should be 4 Cars but this morning they were all coming with 2 Cars with the number of passengers left behind building up.

 

[Greybeard33]

Journey Check this morning was saying that it was due to unit faults. Perhaps they were trying to form one train with enough working engines between them.

All five engines seemed to be running when I saw it at the Airport.

 

[krus_aragon]

Or maybe cab faults (with the faulty cabs coupled together)? Just a wild guess.

 

[Parallel]

Also saw 2 x 158 on Cambrian Coast today, but I think that may have been the previous train being cancelled due to a fault with the onboard signalling system.

 

[33017]

This is going right off a TFWs normal Pacer routes. It would have started off going to Hereford (no booked working for years) Fishguard (recently back on the radar though) and Llandrindod Wells (never had booked working and have just made spasmodic appearances)

Until about 2005, Pacers were relatively common to Llanwrtyd or Llan'dod (I'd estimate one a week, on average) but have been much rarer since the ATW 150 fleet increased from just 150267 & 278-282. The night Hereford will very occasionally get one if Canton are short of 150s at midnight but I doubt that happens more than a few times a year these days - best bet is 2B89 on a Sunday (still rare).

 

[PHILIPE]

Until about 2005, Pacers were relatively common to Llanwrtyd or Llan'dod (I'd estimate one a week, on average) but have been much rarer since the ATW 150 fleet increased from just 150267 & 278-282. The night Hereford will very occasionally get one if Canton are short of 150s at midnight but I doubt that happens more than a few times a year these days - best bet is 2B89 on a Sunday (still rare).

The night Hereford (0030 ex Cardiff) did have a spell some few years ago when it was booked a double Pacer before reverting back to a 150.

 

[craigybagel]

The night Hereford (0030 ex Cardiff) did have a spell some few years ago when it was booked a double Pacer before reverting back to a 150.

For the last few years the same unit that started the day in Hereford finished it's day with the 2155 Cardiff - Crewe and thus had to be a 150, unless they did swaps during the day. At present though they appear to be separate diagrams

 

[anamyd]

A 143 in Llandod is intriguing to me, as technically that means that a Pacer was in Mid Wales!

 

[Dai Corner]

The night Hereford (0030 ex Cardiff) did have a spell some few years ago when it was booked a double Pacer before reverting back to a 150.

For the last few years the same unit that started the day in Hereford finished it's day with the 2155 Cardiff - Crewe and thus had to be a 150, unless they did swaps during the day. At present though they appear to be separate diagrams

The 0030 Cardiff-Hereford appears to sit there for 3 1/2 hours and return to Barry Island at 0526. It's always struck me as a strange working. Is there a historical reason for it?

 

[PHILIPE]

The 0030 Cardiff-Hereford appears to sit there for 3 1/2 hours and return to Barry Island at 0526. It's always struck me as a strange working. Is there a historical reason for it?

To avoid running back ECS and another out again.

 

[Dai Corner]

To avoid running back ECS and another out again.

Yes, but I wondered why stations to Hereford are favoured with a last service an hour later than those to the Valleys and whether there was much custom at Hereford at that time in the morning

 

[Cardiff123]

With Northern having confirmed that Pacers will be staying with them into 2020, I wonder if/when TfW will admit that the same may happen in South Wales.
There are a lot of tight deadlines to be met in the next 6 months if Pacers (and the Rhymney 37s) are to be eliminated in Wales, none of which are guaranteed.

170s from GA in the autumn - dependent on their new trains being introduced with no problems.

769 introduction in the autumn (all 9 of them) - need I say anymore?

Although not directly related to Pacers, there's no guarantees that TfW will get their Mk4's from LNER on time for the December TT, depending on how Azuma introduction goes.

Ongoing class 150 & 153 PRM mods deadline - will it be met?

Class 230 introduction.

James Price's next appearance in front of the Economy and Infrastructure committee in the Senedd will be interesting.

 

[Bikeman78]

158's are not anymore reliable as far as I recall, I have had them fail on me.

Big difference is when a 158 has a wobble I could get rescued by lots of other trains, even a trusty 142 could come and drag it away. A 175 goes bang and it's a world of pain unless another 175 is close by.

I can't be bothered to dig out Modern Railways but in December 2018 the MTIN for a 158 was around 7000, a 175 was 10000. The 175s were 18000 a year earlier so something has gone a bit wrong in Chester.

 

[Bikeman78]

Comfort.

I would take a 150 over a no air con 166 any day of the week.

 

[hobbm013]

With Northern having confirmed that Pacers will be staying with them into 2020, I wonder if/when TfW will admit that the same may happen in South Wales.
There are a lot of tight deadlines to be met in the next 6 months if Pacers (and the Rhymney 37s) are to be eliminated in Wales, none of which are guaranteed.

170s from GA in the autumn - dependent on their new trains being introduced with no problems.

769 introduction in the autumn (all 9 of them) - need I say anymore?

Although not directly related to Pacers, there's no guarantees that TfW will get their Mk4's from LNER on time for the December TT, depending on how Azuma introduction goes.

Ongoing class 150 & 153 PRM mods deadline - will it be met?

Class 230 introduction.

James Price's next appearance in front of the Economy and Infrastructure committee in the Senedd will be interesting.

According to the LNER Withdrawls thread, the first 3 sets to be withdrawn are for TfW, at least 2 sets have left LNER now, 3 needed for TFW so should be okay by the sounds of it.

 

[krus_aragon]

A 143 in Llandod is intriguing to me, as technically that means that a Pacer was in Mid Wales!

I had the pleasure of one on a day trip from Llanelli to Llandovery on a day trip circa 2013. There were bustitutions north of Llandrindod due to engineering work, and we had the company of the same pacer on our way out and back.

 

[sd0733]

The 5-car 175 working 1323 Crewe to Chester and presumably more today

 

[anamyd]

I had the pleasure of one on a day trip from Llanelli to Llandovery on a day trip circa 2013. There were bustitutions north of Llandrindod due to engineering work, and we had the company of the same pacer on our way out and back.

I had my first ever Pacer ride on 19/6/19 (142-075 Cardiff Central-Treherbert and Treherbert-Pontypridd) and I absolutely loved it! Especially the small jointed section Why do the damn things get so much hate?! OK OK yes, lack of capacity in busy hours; I later observed a "Twitter post gangway line of people" on a Pacer departing Central for Barry Island, I'll admit. But when I changed at Ponty onto a 150 to Merthyr and then back to Cardiff, it was so boring after having had such a fun Pacer experience. And yes the train was perceived as not as good, not just the route Going to miss Pacers even though so far I've only had one ride on one of them in 2019...

 

[tomwills98]

I had my first ever Pacer ride on 19/6/19 (142-075 Cardiff Central-Treherbert and Treherbert-Pontypridd) and I absolutely loved it! Especially the small jointed section Why do the damn things get so much hate?! OK OK yes, lack of capacity in busy hours; I later observed a "Twitter post gangway line of people" on a Pacer departing Central for Barry Island, I'll admit. But when I changed at Ponty onto a 150 to Merthyr and then back to Cardiff, it was so boring after having had such a fun Pacer experience. And yes the train was perceived as not as good, not just the route Going to miss Pacers even though so far I've only had one ride on one of them in 2019...

When the train isn't too busy and you have a seat, they're alright chugging along and have a certain character if you can call it that. But being rammed in with the heaters on as you barrel down the mainline is an experience you'd queue for an hour at Disney for, being thrown around as you go over level crossings and points into people. I'll be sad to see them go, as long as there's a replacement for them.

 

[anamyd]

When the train isn't too busy and you have a seat, they're alright chugging along and have a certain character if you can call it that. But being rammed in with the heaters on as you barrel down the mainline is an experience you'd queue for an hour at Disney for, being thrown around as you go over level crossings and points into people. I'll be sad to see them go, as long as there's a replacement for them.

Oh I appreciate that they're no good in busy hours, for sure. But with a few people in my carriage and a few more people (than in my carriage) in the other carriage, it was a much more fun and exciting experience than a Sprinter! I am looking forward to their direct and indirect, permanent and temporary replacements, and will try and get rides on, once in TfW service, the 170/2s (both 2-car 2002 Bombardier and 3-car 1999 AdTranz), the three-car diesel-battery hybrid 230s, and the 769s. I do want to try and get in a 143 ride before withdrawal though, as I've only had a 142 so far

 

[krus_aragon]

I had my first ever Pacer ride on 19/6/19 (142-075 Cardiff Central-Treherbert and Treherbert-Pontypridd) and I absolutely loved it! Especially the small jointed section Why do the damn things get so much hate?!

At the time, I'd already travelled on plenty of Pacers in the Cardiff area, so the novelty factor had long worn off. Riding one along the Heart of Wales showed off one of their other shortcomings: rough riding on joined track. (I've recently taken a Northern bus-style 142 to Altrincham, that did have some novelty.)

But on that occasion, with engineering work, it could well have been operational convenience that placed it there for me rather than a rolling stock shortage.

 

[anamyd]

At the time, I'd already travelled on plenty of Pacers in the Cardiff area, so the novelty factor had long worn off. Riding one along the Heart of Wales showed off one of their other shortcomings: rough riding on joined track. (I've recently taken a Northern bus-style 142 to Altrincham, that did have some novelty.)

But on that occasion, with engineering work, it could well have been operational convenience that placed it there for me rather than a rolling stock shortage.

The novelty wearing off thing had occured to me, to be honest.

 

[hobbm013]

15:10 Swansea to Chester formed of a single 153 between Cardiff Central and Chester! TfW must be short today

 

[rich.davies]

The 5-car 175 working 1323 Crewe to Chester and presumably more today

I got the 16.23 from Crewe today, seemed a bit excessive to be honest. But a welcome relief, compared to spending the best part of a day on a London Northwestern Class 350 to and from Euston, (Those seats are awful for a long distance service).

15:10 Swansea to Chester formed of a single 153 between Cardiff Central and Chester! TfW must be short today

They also had a 150 on the 15.47 Holyhead to Birmingham, i got on at Chester to go back to Wrexham. Standing of course! Not that i minded with traveling a short distance.

Surely that 5 car 175 would have been better suited elsewhere?

 

[hobbm013]

I got the 16.23 from Crewe today, seemed a bit excessive to be honest. But a welcome relief, compared to spending the best part of a day on a London Northwestern Class 350 to and from Euston, (Those seats are awful for a long distance service).



They also had a 150 on the 15.47 Holyhead to Birmingham, i got on at Chester to go back to Wrexham. Standing of course! Not that i minded with traveling a short distance.

Surely that 5 car 175 would have been better suited elsewhere?

Unless they wanted to keep it close to Chester in case of any issues? Just a guess