ATW Track Access Application

[kieron]

It did occur as expected & reported in the local press. Complaints were also made to ATW. I had a colleague confirm this who was returning from Manchester.

Are you saying that some people waited almost an hour for a train to Wrexham? There's a bus to Chirk via Ruabon which is timed to connect with the Virgin train, and there are other trains to Shrewsbury, so the only people who would have to wait for the next Arriva train are the few who wanted to go to Gobowen but didn't check the times before they left.

Do you recall when and where you saw a story in a newspaper about it?

 

[merlodlliw]

Are you saying that some people waited almost an hour for a train to Wrexham? There's a bus to Chirk via Ruabon which is timed to connect with the Virgin train, and there are other trains to Shrewsbury, so the only people who would have to wait for the next Arriva train are the few who wanted to go to Gobowen but didn't check the times before they left.

Do you recall when and where you saw a story in a newspaper about it?

Yes I am saying that, neither VT or ATW put on a railreplacement on Bank Hol Monday, er what other trains to Shrewsbury between 1930 & 2130 from Chester
The story was carried in the Chester Chronicle.
The bus BTW to Chirk runs from Wrexham,

 

[bnm]

The new timetable shows no northbound service conveying 1st Class/Restaurant.

Which service will be running as the original northbound WAG Express?

 

[headshot119]

Yes I am saying that, neither VT or ATW put on a railreplacement on Bank Hol Monday, er what other trains to Shrewsbury between 1930 & 2130 from Chester
The story was carried in the Chester Chronicle.
The bus BTW to Chirk runs from Wrexham,

If people where that desperate they should have took a #1 bus to Wrexham Bus station, then changes there onto a bus to Chirk.

 

[SprinterMan]

Does anyone know anything about all the errors in the timetable, and what happens to the 0515 HHD-BHI between Chester & Shrewsbury?

 

[kieron]

Yes I am saying that, neither VT or ATW put on a railreplacement on Bank Hol Monday, er what other trains to Shrewsbury between 1930 & 2130 from Chester
The story was carried in the Chester Chronicle.
The bus BTW to Chirk runs from Wrexham,

I can't find it on the web site, but their search facility is pretty poor.

I find it hard to work out what you're trying to say happened. Are you saying that the trains between Chester and Wrexham were cancelled over the Jubilee bank holiday? And that the buses were also cancelled? And that this had something to do with the question of whether or not Arriva runs trains between Wrexham and Shrewsbury each bank holiday?

If not, what did happen?

 

[SprinterMan]

This new timetable is insane. Bangor's runaround sidings now see more action than a low priced dentist (for want of a better metaphor), and Llandudno has apparently been mothballed during the day.

The WAG train now calls Holyhead-Bangor-Llandudno Junction-Colwyn Bay-Rhyl-Flint-Chester-Wrexham General-Shrewsbury-Hereford-Newport-Cardiff Central, with Abergavenny and Gobowen (!) added to that northbound.

What was WAG2 southbound now calls Llandudno-Deganwy-Llandudno Junction-Colwyn Bay-Rhyl-Chester-Wrexham General-Ruabon-Chirk-Gobowen-Shrewsbury-Newport-Cardiff Central.

What was WAG1 northbound (the so-called "commuter" service!) now calls Cardiff Central-Newport-Cwmbran-Abergavenny-Hereford-Shresbury-Crewe-Chester.

So, the normal trains call at less stations than the WAG express....

The 0515 Holyhead to Birmingham apparently is non-stop between Chester and Shrewsbury, and OTT shows it as running to it's old timetable which is clearly wrong.

These timetables are riddled with mistakes also. The BHI-LLD train is noted at to LLJ in timetable 2, The southbound WAG train is shown as calling at Crewe in the special HHD-CDF timetables in both 2 & 4, the 0515 HHD-BHI train dissapears between Crewe and Shrewsbury. It could well call Crewe-Nantwich-Whitchurch-Wem and we wouldnt know.

Also, for some reason the 0635 Chester-Manchester NT service is shown....

Adam

 

[Michael.Y]

Also, for some reason the 0635 Chester-Manchester NT service is shown....

Adam

Just as the HHD-EUS VT services are shown in the No.4 timetable, and various GW, XC and LM services are shown in other timetables.

 

[SprinterMan]

Just as the HHD-EUS VT services are shown in the No.4 timetable, and various GW, XC and LM services are shown in other timetables.

But no other NT Chester-Manchester services are shown, and it is overtaken by and ATW service en route.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think the problem lies in Timetable 2. I was informed that the 05 15 Holyhead will run via Crewe and call only at Nantwich, Whitchurch and Wem. This again is not shewn in Journey Planner and indicates thet Wrenbury, Prees and Yorton are left without their morning commute to Shrewsbury. There is a 06 40 Crewe to Shrewsbury shown in Journey Planner and described as a train from Crewe to Birmingham International with the forward times from Shrewsbury corresponding with the 05 30 Aberystwyth to Birmingham Int. The 05 44 Shrewsbury to Crewe has to return sometime to Shrewsbury as now but worked by the Salop to Crewe 153 which currently starts at 07 57 from Shrewsbury. The 158 currently working goes to Wrexham and back from September and combine at Shrewsbury with the "ghost" train which must grow wings and fly from Chester to Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

I can't find it on the web site, but their search facility is pretty poor.

I find it hard to work out what you're trying to say happened. Are you saying that the trains between Chester and Wrexham were cancelled over the Jubilee bank holiday? And that the buses were also cancelled? And that this had something to do with the question of whether or not Arriva runs trains between Wrexham and Shrewsbury each bank holiday?

If not, what did happen?

On Bank Holiday Monday neither VT or ATW ran the services in question, no train left Chester between 1930 & 2130. for Wrexham & onwards to Salop.
No rail replacement was offered, pax had to pay for bus or taxi out of their own pocket if they choose to,the majority waited on Chester Station for the 2130.

On Bank holiday Tuesday, the VT ran to Wrexham, but ATW had BHX the usual DMU for onwards travel to Salop.

 

[cymro inside]

the whole thinking behind the changes are that trains into LLandudno are carrying space and that trains from Bangor are well loaded, the 0712 chester to man picc will be 2 units(not yet clear if 4 or 5 cars,probs at Helsby if 5 cars)on return from man picc at 0850 service divides at Chester,rear unit works all stops to LLandudno,the 1331 bangor to manchester is useful as boat passengers for warrington and manchester can change at bangor instead of the junction or chester giving more space on the cdf service,also of note is that there will still be good connections into town from the junction on the 0846 and 1146 from bl ffes which have thier dwell time at the junction reduced from 20 minutes to 7 thus speeding service up slightly.also blaenau trains are earlier from llandudno to provide connections at the junction.

 

[tbtc]

the 0712 chester to man picc will be 2 units(not yet clear if 4 or 5 cars,probs at Helsby if 5 cars)

Good news - thanks for explaining things

 

[Michael.Y]

the 1331 bangor to manchester is useful as boat passengers for warrington and manchester can change at bangor instead of the junction or chester giving more space on the cdf service

Indeed -- during uni term time and in on Saturdays this will alleviate a lot of issues on this busy route.

 

[kieron]

On Bank Holiday Monday neither VT or ATW ran the services in question, no train left Chester between 1930 & 2130. for Wrexham & onwards to Salop.

Thanks. I was a bit confused because Arriva don't appear to run a passenger service from Chester to Wrexham between those times on a weekday.

 

[Squaddie]

On Bank Holiday Monday neither VT or ATW ran the services in question, no train left Chester between 1930 & 2130. for Wrexham & onwards to Salop. No rail replacement was offered, pax had to pay for bus or taxi out of their own pocket if they choose to,the majority waited on Chester Station for the 2130.

I still don't really follow your story. Was this a last-minute failure to run an advertised service, or a timetabled two-hour gap in service?

If it was unplanned and no alternative transport was provided then it is extremely poor but the passengers would presumably have been entitled to a partial refund of the fare they paid because they would have been an hour late arriving at their destinations.

If it was timetabled then there is really nothing more to say, as the passengers should have checked the timetable rather than assuming there would be a train. In that case I would disagree with your interpretation that ATW left the passengers stranded.

 

[PHILIPE]

The 20 47 from Wrexham to Shrewsbury runs only as a connection out of the VT from London so as VT cancel their train on a Bank Holiday there is your explanation. Similarly in the opposite direction at 06 10 ex Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm getting a bit confused where to post on the ATW Timetable alterations as some posts are being posted here and others relating to the same thing are being posted on WAG Express Thread on the Traction Board creating posts and cutting across each other. Anybody got any suggestions, please, how to merge the topics.

 

[quarella]

Leaving 100 pax stranded at Chester last Bank Hol Mon for two hours in the evening should have rung alarm bells at ATW.

No passenger was left stranded by ATW as their service was quite clearly advertised as not running on bank holidays and, as you point out in a much later post the other was run by Virgin. However it does appear there is demand for a service even if I take the actual figure quoted with a pinch of salt.
I have been caught out once by alterations First Great Western make to their service between Christmas and New Year and have to either travel earlier or use alternative means of transport.

 

[bnm]

Looks like ATW have pulled the 'new' timetables from their website.

 

[Michael.Y]

I'm getting a bit confused where to post on the ATW Timetable alterations as some posts are being posted here and others relating to the same thing are being posted on WAG Express Thread on the Traction Board creating posts and cutting across each other. Anybody got any suggestions, please, how to merge the topics.

Perhaps something like "the All-Purpose ATW Discussion Thread"

 

[merlodlliw]

Looks like ATW have pulled the 'new' timetables from their website.

Correct all ATW Sept/Dec timetables taken down, they must have been reading RF.

Others have said they were put up full of errors.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No passenger was left stranded by ATW as their service was quite clearly advertised as not running on bank holidays and, as you point out in a much later post the other was run by Virgin. However it does appear there is demand for a service even if I take the actual figure quoted with a pinch of salt.
I have been caught out once by alterations First Great Western make to their service between Christmas and New Year and have to either travel earlier or use alternative means of transport.

VT pulled the service on Bank Holiday Monday to Wrexham, without any rail replacement, the service was advertised as running, thats why no train left Chester for Wrexham between 1930 & 2130.

The argument is as ATW gave up this path to VT & run a dmu at that time on Saturdays, alternative arrangements should have been made.
The VT is advertised as running on Bank Holidays.

Normal fare paying passengers do not have the rail knowledge we do,

 

[Squaddie]

VT pulled the service on Bank Holiday Monday to Wrexham, without any rail replacement, the service was advertised as running, thats why no train left Chester for Wrexham between 1930 & 2130.

The argument is as ATW gave up this path to VT & run a dmu at that time on Saturdays, alternative arrangements should have been made.

So you're blaming ATW for Virgin's failure to run a train on the bank holiday because the slot once belonged to ATW?

I'm still not really following this issue.

 

[gswindale]

Do we know why the VT service did not run?

 

[SprinterMan]

I have saved copies of the Sept-Dec error riddled timetables 1 - 4. PM me with an email address and I can send you them.
Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

So you're blaming ATW for Virgin's failure to run a train on the bank holiday because the slot once belonged to ATW?

I'm still not really following this issue.

I am saying no train left Chester for Wrexham on Bank Holiday Monday between
1930 & 2130.

Nothing prevented a railbus alternative being run by either tocs, ATW gave up a Chester Salop at 2021 to allow VT a path, as a result the passenger suffered on Bank Holiday Monday.

Bob

 

[gswindale]

Again, do we know why the VT service didn't run?

Why should ATW put on a replacement bus for a service they don't operate?

It was clear that ATW were not running between Wrexham/Shrewsbury at the time in question.

Therefore the only issue is possibly with passengers for Wrexham which is a VT issue and should be discussed in a VT thread not an ATW thread?

To be honest I have no sympathy for people who have a delayed journey due to their inability to read.

 

[merlodlliw]

Again, do we know why the VT service didn't run?

Why should ATW put on a replacement bus for a service they don't operate?

It was clear that ATW were not running between Wrexham/Shrewsbury at the time in question.

Therefore the only issue is possibly with passengers for Wrexham which is a VT issue and should be discussed in a VT thread not an ATW thread?

To be honest I have no sympathy for people who have a delayed journey due to their inability to read.

I have every sympathy for people who are delayed through no fault of their own, Wrexham is no small halt and sets down & picks up more pax than any other station in North East Wales.As for bus services they dont operate London Midland ran bus shuttles on Sundays when Cosford was closed for months, yet LM dont run a train on that line on Sundays, if one can do it,so can the rest. VT could have done the same or got ATW to run a bus after all Both Chester & Wrexham stations are managed by ATW.

Bob

 

[gswindale]

As for bus services they dont operate London Midland ran bus shuttles on Sundays when Cosford was closed for months, yet LM dont run a train on that line on Sundays, if one can do it,so can the rest. VT could have done the same or got ATW to run a bus after all Both Chester & Wrexham stations are managed by ATW.

Bob

Slightly different situation there though.

Cosford station was closed to trains. LM/NR would have organised the replacement bus service. Therefore a deal would probably been done with all TOCs to ensure a reasonable service.

 

[merlodlliw]

Slightly different situation there though.

Cosford station was closed to trains. LM/NR would have organised the replacement bus service. Therefore a deal would probably been done with all TOCs to ensure a reasonable service.

Perhaps a different situation, but in my book if a train is cancelled a bus is usually put on, it occurs every time an ATW is cancelled on the Chester/Salop line. Vt really have no excuse on this one.

 

[quarella]

Virgin have a different conditions in their passenger's charter.

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/global/passengers-charter.pdf

If you are travelling with Virgin Trains and are delayed
for more than one hour waiting for a train at a station,
we will, where possible, provide you with vouchers for
free non-alcoholic drinks. If your train is cancelled and the
subsequent train is two or more hours later, transport will be
provided to the nearest railway station that can conveniently
be used to enable you to reach your destination station, or,
at our discretion, your actual destination. Where onward
travel on the same day is not possible (either by train or
by suitable alternative transport) we will provide overnight
hotel accommodation

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/PassengersCharter/

What we will do if things go wrong
Keeping you informed
If delays occur after your train journey has started, we
will endeavour to:
 provide as much information as possible on the train
 pass messages on to people who may be meeting you
or be worried about you
 get you to the destination on your ticket
 get you to your bus destination where your journey
includes train/bus through ticketing
 arrange alternative transport in certain circumstances
 arrange overnight accommodation or transport home
in certain circumstances
 get you back to an appropriate station if your journey
is not possible
 issue complimentary non-alcoholic drinks, where
refreshment facilities are provided and subject to
stocks being available, if your journey is delayed by
more than one hour.

VT specify alternative transport if next service is not for two hours. ATW do not specify a time. As the ATW service was not scheduled to run they were under no obligation and VT met their charter requirement.