ATW Track Access Application

[PHILIPE]

Does anybody know if the stakeholders have recieved any communication from ATW on this so called shambles of a Timetable yet ?

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Wrenbury, Prees and Yorton are left without their morning commute to Shrewsbury

This is absurd! Why on earth get rid of the only service which allows people to commute from these three stations to the largest town nearby? Plenty of people, both schoolchildren and adults, use this service at present (well okay, during term-time for the former!).

 

[PHILIPE]

Wait until the Timetable is re-published before we jump the gun.

 

[merlodlliw]

The draft timetable as been received by stakeholders today 3rd August,I have not seen a copy yet, but I have been e mailed the following information agreed by WG with ATW. I refer to Chester/Wrexham/Shrewsbury line only
1.All mention of BHX have been removed.(there are non Sept to Dec)
2.New service two car 158 departs Shrewsbury for Wrexham at 0700 Gobowen/Chirk/Ruabon.
3.Wag Ex DVT/67 departs Wrexham 0732 next stop Shrewsbury.
4.New service 2J93 departs Wrexham 0747 all stations to Shrewsbury ar 0828 couples up with 1G95 from Holyhead diverted via Crewe then four coach 158 to Birmingham ex Shrewsbury 0831 as now( very tight)
5.Wag2 lives for another day, but from Llandudno as 1V34 calls same stations from Junction ,then Shrewsbury to Newport Non stop. ATW are paying for this service(up only) which will no longer be open access,remains 175. ATW do not want to redirect the Birmingham service which gave up its path for Wag2, due to the Birmingham via Crewe calling at Shropshire stations
Whitchurch/Nantwich/Wem etc.

More when I get it. The December2012/2013 draft is awaited to see what BHX actually is programmed.
There is no question ATW have been leaned on heavily to make sure stakeholders are consulted,All County Councils,Wrexham/Shropshire/Cheshire/
Anglesey/Gwynedd/Conwy/Denbighshire/Flintshire etc have had copies sent to the Rail Officer, you can ask to see it, all rugs & rail partnerships have been sent copies as well


Bob

Later I now have an electronic copy of the draft, its huge all lines, if anyone would like a copy please PM me with a valid E Mail address.

.

As one important stakeholder in our area puts it below


All references to services not running on Bank Holidays have been removed.

Importantly the new Express Service from Holyhead to Cardiff is routed via Wrexham and leaves the General Station at 07.32 arriving Cardiff at at 09.58.
This service does not stop at Ruabon, Chirk or Gobowen.

However another service is scheduled to follow the Express starting at Wrexham at 07.47 and calling all stations to Shrewsbury and couples there to the Chester via Crewe service to Birmingham and thereby reinstating our direct peak time commuter service to the West Midlands arriving at 09.26 into Birmingham.

We have also gained a new service at 07.00 each weekday morning from Shrewsbury calling all stations to Wrexham General arriving at 07.39. This service then turns to provide the direct Birmingham service at 07.47. Chester passengers for Wrexham will of course be served by the Express and those wishing to go on to Gobowen, Ruabon or Chirk will need to change at Wrexham for the following service some 15 minutes later.

The second 'Express', stopping at all stations along this line of route, but no longer funded by WG, will still run departing Wrexham at 08.34 arriving Cardiff at 11.15. Passengers for the West Midlands retain a good connection at Shrewsbury.

 

[PHILIPE]

Do you know the exact calling pattern of the 05 15 Holyhead to Birmingham Int via Crewe regarding the stops (all stations) of the current 07 40 Crewe to Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I can now answer my own question, I think. Nothing on ATWs Timetables on line yet but Journey Planner shews 05 15 Holyhead to Birmingham Int to now call at all stations Crewe to Shrewsbury instead of just Nantwuch, Whitchurch and Wem as I had been informed a few weeks ago.

 

[SprinterMan]

I can now answer my own question, I think. Nothing on ATWs Timetables on line yet but Journey Planner shews 05 15 Holyhead to Birmingham Int to now call at all stations Crewe to Shrewsbury instead of just Nantwuch, Whitchurch and Wem as I had been informed a few weeks ago.

I cannot find this train at all on Open Train Times, it's like it does't exist.

 

[PHILIPE]

I cannot find this train at all on Open Train Times, it's like it does't exist.

Oeiginally it disappeared at Chester and re-surfaced at Shrewsbury but if you go to Journey Planner and ask for Crewe to Shrewsbury you will see it.

 

[David Goddard]

Does anyone know what will happen to the mk2s currently employed on the wag workings if the Septembet setup is mk3s throughout

Would be well suited to the Fishguard services. Having recently ridden to Fishguard and back on a packed 150/2, the Mk2 stock would provide a welcome enhancement:
-Three and a half coaches of roomy accommodation with good legroom
-Aisles that are wide enough for, and space to store, a catering trolley
-Luggage space in the brake van for suitcases/bicycles/fishing tackle*

*When we travelled on the lunchtime service we witnessed on the return leg a heated argument over utilisation of storage space between two passengers with cycles and two men with fishing equipment who were clearly tired (but also tipsy) after a days work fishing.

 

[merlodlliw]

Do you know the exact calling pattern of the 05 15 Holyhead to Birmingham Int via Crewe regarding the stops (all stations) of the current 07 40 Crewe to Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I can now answer my own question, I think. Nothing on ATWs Timetables on line yet but Journey Planner shews 05 15 Holyhead to Birmingham Int to now call at all stations Crewe to Shrewsbury instead of just Nantwuch, Whitchurch and Wem as I had been informed a few weeks ago.

Any RF member send me an e mail address via pm for a copy of the draft September timetable, all ATW lines, you may spot some other changes in your areas.
your e mail address will remain confidential to me.

Bob

 

[PHILIPE]

Would be well suited to the Fishguard services. Having recently ridden to Fishguard and back on a packed 150/2, the Mk2 stock would provide a welcome enhancement:
-Three and a half coaches of roomy accommodation with good legroom
-Aisles that are wide enough for, and space to store, a catering trolley
-Luggage space in the brake van for suitcases/bicycles/fishing tackle*

*When we travelled on the lunchtime service we witnessed on the return leg a heated argument over utilisation of storage space between two passengers with cycles and two men with fishing equipment who were clearly tired (but also tipsy) after a days work fishing.

You won't get LHCS on the Fishguard whatever you might hope for. It is only used in exceptional circumstances such as a WAG initiative or in the case of when on FGW initiated by DFT because of their foul up. Track Access charges higher anyway so ATW are not going to pay. If there is a UNIT available, the unit will work it.

 

[mgood]

I understand that Arriva have now amended the proposals and the 0744 ex Wrexham, although slightly re-timed, will now still be connecting to arrive in B'ham at the same time as present.

I'd like to thank two AM's, Aled Roberts and Mark Isherwood, for their efforts in making Arriva revise the proposals - both of them responded to me personally very quickly, kept me regularly informed and were very proactive in trying to get a successful outcome.

Thanks

 

[merlodlliw]

I understand that Arriva have now amended the proposals and the 0744 ex Wrexham, although slightly re-timed, will now still be connecting to arrive in B'ham at the same time as present.

I'd like to thank two AM's, Aled Roberts and Mark Isherwood, for their efforts in making Arriva revise the proposals - both of them responded to me personally very quickly, kept me regularly informed and were very proactive in trying to get a successful outcome.

Thanks

A lot of us have worked on this, consultation with stakeholders will now end on Aug 24th, although we have already achieved the changes we required for the Wrexham line by the coupling up of the Wrexham local(what will be a very busy train) onto the Birmingham at Shrewsbury for West Midland commuters. I am aware ATW Management were taken by surprise at the combined complaints of Commuters/Politicians/Line Partnership & Rug, not consulting in the first place was an own goal,it wont happen again.

For South Wales members, The draft Timetable shows an extra carriage on the busy 1730ish DMU to Swansea area, plus extra carriage on certain Cardiff to Manchester 175s due to overcrowding.

Bob

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Well that's a great result - only on Tuesday the morning stopper to Shrewsbury was absent from National Rail after September, yet now it features again on the website. Well done to all involved in resolving the issues with the first draft of the timetable

 

[mgood]

Well that's a great result - only on Tuesday the morning stopper to Shrewsbury was absent from National Rail after September, yet now it features again on the website. Well done to all involved in resolving the issues with the first draft of the timetable

The NR website still isn't totally accurate. It shows the revised 0747 from Wrexham getting to B'ham at 0955 (and with a change) because it assumes that you won't make the 3 minute "connection" with the 0831 departure from Shrewsbury, even though the train will be joining up with the B'ham train from Crewe.

 

[SprinterMan]

The NR website still isn't totally accurate. It shows the revised 0747 from Wrexham getting to B'ham at 0955 (and with a change) because it assumes that you won't make the 3 minute "connection" with the 0831 departure from Shrewsbury, even though the train will be joining up with the B'ham train from Crewe.

Correct, and also the Southbound Premier train isn't shown as stopping at Hereford, and Open Train Times only shows it stopping there when on "detailed mode".

Adam

 

[PHILIPE]

Correct, and also the Southbound Premier train isn't shown as stopping at Hereford, and Open Train Times only shows it stopping there when on "detailed mode".

Adam

The detailed mode shows passing times of trains that don't stop. Open train times is only available for a couple of weeks ahead so the times after the September change are not available on the site.

 

[merlodlliw]

The detailed mode shows passing times of trains that don't stop. Open train times is only available for a couple of weeks ahead so the times after the September change are not available on the site.

For those of you who may be interested here is the departure path of 1V31 (new Gerald)
taken from draft timetable out for consultation to August 24th.


Holyhead 0533
Bangor 0601
LLan Junction 0619
Colwyn Bay 0627
Rhyl 0638
Flint 0655
Chester 0714 arr 0709
Wrexham 0732
Shrewsbury 0810 arr 0807
Hereford 0856 arr 0854
Newport 0940
Cardiff 0958

Plus the spin by Mike Bagshaws intoduction says
142 extra seats on 0546 Llandudno Junction and 0712 Chester both to Manchester.
148 extra daily seats on busiest trains Cardiff to Manchester.
extra 74 seats on 1739 Cardiff to Milford Haven.
Re-timing to provide extra 160 daily seats commuting into Swansea during morning peak.

Bob

 

[tbtc]

For those of you who may be interested here is the departure path of 1V31 (new Gerald)
taken from draft timetable out for consultation to August 24th.

Hereford 0856 arr 0854

Good to see that the nonsense of this train omitting the busy (English) station of Hereford has been resolved

 

[merlodlliw]

Good to see that the nonsense of this train omitting the busy (English) station of Hereford has been resolved

Yes, but according to the draft timetable, Wag2(1V34) a franchise train from Sept,note up only ex Llandudno 0830, does not call at Hereford, I did question the loading of this train between Shrewsbury & Newport with ATW Management on Friday, who told me around 70 use it, I don't think much market research has been done here, Ive never seen that number,but we do know WG Area Offices are at the Junction, so just in time for a spot of lunch in the Bay but better than the original idea of leaving it idle in Canton for six hours. This train is supposed to run Saturdays, but we don't have a Saturday/Sunday draft timetable to confirm it.

Bob

 

[cymro inside]

The reason that wag 1 is now able to call at Colwyn Bay and Hereford is that the train is now allowed to attain 90 mph with class 67 haulage where permissable as opposed to 75 mph with class 57 haulage,this means that there is ample slack to make stops at these places without breaching the 4 hour journey time from Bangor.

 

[merlodlliw]

The reason that wag 1 is now able to call at Colwyn Bay and Hereford is that the train is now allowed to attain 90 mph with class 67 haulage where permissable as opposed to 75 mph with class 57 haulage,this means that there is ample slack to make stops at these places without breaching the 4 hour journey time from Bangor.

interesting point you make,I presume the 67 has better acceleration,say between Junction and Colwyn Bay?

And of course the A.M for Colwyn Bay Darren Millar, played hell as the WAG 1 never stopped in his consituency Clwyd West.
So we have two new WG constituencies WAG1 will call at from Sept, Clwyd West(Colwyn Bay) Wrexham(Wrexham), Clwyd South(Ruabon & Chirk) remains the odd one out on the up
got to keep two A.Ms happy
As for Hereford WGs missing ATW managed hub at last.

Bob

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The reason that wag 1 is now able to call at Colwyn Bay and Hereford is that the train is now allowed to attain 90 mph with class 67 haulage where permissable as opposed to 75 mph with class 57 haulage,this means that there is ample slack to make stops at these places without breaching the 4 hour journey time from Bangor.

Not so sure about this. I don't think the loco max speeds have changed.
The old 57-hauled train happily did 90 on the coast and in the southern marches (when it got going).
It may be more to do with the new 67/Mk3 train having better speed curves than the 57/Mk2/3 on the current train.
DMUs will still be allowed higher speeds Wrexham-Shrewsbury-Onibury where there are some significant differentials.

 

[The Planner]

Depends on what and how many coaches it was pulling. There is a ruling on max speed depending on how many coaches and if they are mk 2 or 3s. It is in the rule book somewhere.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Interesting points made about speed and timings of the Wag1, don't know much about these things but do know that when I travelled last week it was 5 early arriving in Bangor and even tho' it left on time was again 5 early at the junction, don't recall this happening with a 57.

 

[cymro inside]

tonight the down wag was 5mins early passing Hereford and was 7 early at Sutton Bridge Jn.it is normal now to arrive at Flint 90 secs early having departed Chester on time.

 

[The Informer]

Arriva's plan all along was to run the WAG at MU differentials. I seen it in black and white.

 

[The Planner]

I dont see how they can unless they have got some sort of dispensation for the 67s.

 

[merlodlliw]

I dont see how they can unless they have got some sort of dispensation for the 67s.

seems lots of reports of early running with the 67 Bo Bo,perhaps they have dispensation, would that dispen be coming from the new NR outfit in Cardiff? the Co Co 57s were so unreliable, to arrive on time was an event.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Arriva's plan all along was to run the WAG at MU differentials. I seen it in black and white.

your previous info was always on the ball.

 

[SovietGaz]

The WAG now stops at Colwyn Bay? Plus it now has a DVT and MKIIIs? I'm quite happy with that...

 

[SprinterMan]

Any news on what will become of the (rather nice) mark 2s that are currently used on the WAG train?

Adam