Bermondsey dive under open

[swt_passenger]

Not a driver but I'd expect that it would classed as new, since your approach speed to a flat junction will be completely different as compared to a grade-separated junction. Which will have affects on braking points, etc.

I seem to remember that there was route learning required before the Hitchin flyover was brought into use.

That was slightly different, because the new route was available at the same time as the old route. It won't be the case at Bermondsey, it will change during a blockade, (late summer 2017?) maybe as long as 10 days or so, and that will be that.

Looking at the staging diagrams the temporary slews just north of New Cross will be switched back to the normal route and then through the dive under and then run on the south side of the main viaduct to the west of the Bermondsey site and towards P7-P9. It's effectively a track slew onto a new parallel pair of tracks over a few thousand yards, but it doesn't actually provide a new junction as such.

 

[najaB]

That was slightly different, because the new route was available at the same time as the old route. It won't be the case at Bermondsey, it will change during a blockade, maybe as long as 10 days or so, and that will be that.

I guess it will have to be sim runs then.

 

[swt_passenger]

I guess it will have to be sim runs then.

I think we have to separate out the fact that the new route is routed through a dive under. Putting that to one side it is still the same two track up/down towards Charing Cross route.

What I'm thinking is that although it will look fairly different it is logically the same route. I think Bald Rick explained a few months ago (in the long running London Bridge new timetable thread) that they can transfer the signal numbers and line names across from the old route to the temporary route then back to permanent route, which presumably makes it easier for drivers knowledge.

 

[najaB]

I think we have to separate out the fact that the new route is routed through a dive under. Putting that to one side it is still the same two track up/down towards Charing Cross route.

I suppose, would be nice to hear from a driver.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Old ballast gets worn too smooth, and too small, so eventually it doesn't provide the necessary interlocking for track restraint no matter how clean you can get it. I would expect they would take the opportunity of such an accessible worksite to do a 100% removal and replace - if only to get a head start on future maintenance requirements.

But on the operational railway the High Output Ballast Cleaning train basically runs along and treats the ballast by cutting it all out, then sorting it for size, cleaning most stone and replacement with some new stone added.

Ballast that is beyond further use on the railway is washed and recycled into the construction industry, it is done at places like Whitemoor, Westbury and Eastleigh to name but a few.

Thanks for the explanation

 

[kdoganorak]

I might try and take a few picies from here or from a train via new cross gate next week.

True to my word

https://youtu.be/tT5ZSRQsgog

 

[swt_passenger]

Three pictures taken this morning.

The down ramp for the Southeastern Charing Cross lines showing its final shape, more or less, I assume some sort of finishing treatment will be used to hide the bare concrete in due course.

Steel girders in place for the Thameslink bridge over Bolina Rd, you can get an idea now of the future height of that Thameslink pair compared to the Cannon St tracks from which the picture is taken, it's clearly becoming a bit of a flyover as well as a dive under...

Third picture is the end of the slight gradient where there's a ramp bringing the Thameslink pair down to the level of the Cannon St lines.

Hope this is of interest.

 

[hwl]

Three pictures taken this morning.

The down ramp for the Southeastern Charing Cross lines showing its final shape, more or less, I assume some sort of finishing treatment will be used to hide the bare concrete in due course.

Yellow brick like the ramp completed last year

 

[swt_passenger]

Yellow brick like the ramp completed last year

That's good. I was worried they'd be tempted to just use some sort of paint finish.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think we have to separate out the fact that the new route is routed through a dive under. Putting that to one side it is still the same two track up/down towards Charing Cross route.

It's very different in terms of driving and route signals are changing on that route and you will get a different route indication as well as line speeds. There are also Drivers who regularly use that route that will never have driven via blue anchor.

Its well worth noting that since the works have been undertaken the number of incidents has risen.

 

[snowball]

You can tell from swt_passenger's first photo that the arch faces (spandrels) are going to be faced with bricks or blocks because the structural arch protrudes slighly relative to the spandrels.

 

[IanKR]

Somebody, somewhere (either on this thread or on the London Bridge reconstruction works thread) has no doubt already answered this, but I can't find it, so apologies for posting.

Once CHX trains commence stopping again at LBG at the end of August, will they be using the Bermondsey dive under, or will they still be using the current track that is slued to the north? Looking at the works today, I can't see it being ready in 5/6 weeks - not just the dive under itself, but also the track on the approaches at both ends?

I assume they will be replacing the existing track along the south (CHX) viaduct past the recycling works and back to New Cross?

 

[swt_passenger]

Somebody, somewhere (either on this thread or on the London Bridge reconstruction works thread) has no doubt already answered this, but I can't find it, so apologies for posting.

Once CHX trains commence stopping again at LBG at the end of August, will they be using the Bermondsey dive under, or will they still be using the current track that is slued to the north? Looking at the works today, I can't see it being ready in 5/6 weeks - not just the dive under itself, but also the track on the approaches at both ends?

I assume they will be replacing the existing track along the south (CHX) viaduct past the recycling works and back to New Cross?

No, it's just a case of slewing the Cannon St tracks over at both ends of the station to run through the future P5 & P6, while they demolish existing and build the eventual P1 to P4.

This PDF presentation below (warning large file) shows all the stages of track alterations, the August change is to the stage 3 layout, on page 88.

http://www.infrarail.com/_downloads/presentations/IF14_Thameslink.pdf

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Not that large, it downloaded in about 4s.

 

[hwl]

Somebody, somewhere (either on this thread or on the London Bridge reconstruction works thread) has no doubt already answered this, but I can't find it, so apologies for posting.

Once CHX trains commence stopping again at LBG at the end of August, will they be using the Bermondsey dive under, or will they still be using the current track that is slued to the north? Looking at the works today, I can't see it being ready in 5/6 weeks - not just the dive under itself, but also the track on the approaches at both ends?

I assume they will be replacing the existing track along the south (CHX) viaduct past the recycling works and back to New Cross?

August change is just connecting existing lines 1+2 on the eastern approaches to the lines through P5+6 which have already been laid (and the connection of tracks 5+6 at the western end to the CST lines at Borough Market.)

Xmas change is Sussex Down Slow though the dive under in operation (southern most track through dive under) which is big improvement for Southern users and allows the loop outside the station to be removed and all the Charing Cross Changes to be made at Easter/May '17 etc.

 

[IanKR]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

[swt_passenger]

A few pictures of the current situation at and near the Bolina Rd bridges where AFAICT the civils work appears to moving towards the last stages before the track systems contractor gets access.

First picture just at the end of the Charing Cross up and down lines viaduct. It seems as though only the down line has a full parapet, and therefore has a full concrete foundation for the track bed behind it. The levels in the background suggest that the whole area including the up Charing Cross and the down Sussex Slow across to the Thameslink embankment retaining wall will be just compacted earth, because they seem to be laying conventional drainage in a trench down the middle?

Second picture shows three of the four separate bridges over Bolina Rd. In order front to back Down Charing Cross, Up Charing Cross, Down Sussex Slow. The fourth bridge (Southwark Reversible) is almost completely out of view under the camera.

Third Picture shows the area between the Bolina Rd bridges and the start of the main underpass boxes. Again, it looks like ground level is being raised to that of the concrete bridges to form a fairly conventional track bed. That for the Down Sussex Slow exiting the box is looking almost ready for ballast perhaps? That will be the first line to open in due course.

Fourth picture just shows the finishing brickwork being applied at the country end of the viaduct. Thinking aloud, I wonder if they might ever clean the existing viaduct to match?

 

[teamsoutheast]

When will this come into use? Are there any timelines?

 

[swt_passenger]

When will this come into use? Are there any timelines?

The first part to open in Dec 2016 is to be the Down Sussex Slow. That's the southernmost of the four dive under tracks (furthest low bridge alongside the flyover in 2nd of my above photos).

There are published timelines somewhere but as that first one is about 3 months ahead of the original date shown, I'd be reluctant to go by them as they may have changed as well.

However in May 2014 the up and down Charing Cross lines were going to be in use about September 2017, and the Southwark reversible (the remaining route) at the end of 2017.

 

[Bald Rick]

The first part to open in Dec 2016 is to be the Down Sussex Fast.

Down Sussex Slow.

*pedant*

 

[swt_passenger]

Down Sussex Slow.

*pedant*

Oh yes, sorry about any confusion, I'll fix it probably thinking it will allow a faster route for the trains out of the low level that will eventually cross to the fast...

 

[swt_passenger]

Good overview picture here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsurbN5W8AEDqmj.jpg:large

 

[Blamethrower]

Good overview picture here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsurbN5W8AEDqmj.jpg:large

wow great picture, finally gives me an idea of what is being done

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers for the picture(s).

Anyone know what the linespeeds will be ?

 

[swt_passenger]

Cheers for the picture(s).

Anyone know what the linespeeds will be ?

That Infrarail presentation from a couple of years back that included all the staging diagrams (although not too clear) suggests 60 mph through the general area of the dive under, and on the Thameslink lines.

 

[DPWH]

Fourth picture just shows the finishing brickwork being applied at the country end of the viaduct. Thinking aloud, I wonder if they might ever clean the existing viaduct to match?

Is the original viaduct actually dirty or was it built in blue brick?

 

[Bald Rick]

That Infrarail presentation from a couple of years back that included all the staging diagrams (although not too clear) suggests 60 mph through the general area of the dive under, and on the Thameslink lines.

Yep 60 all round, over and under.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yep 60 all round, over and under.

Thanks for confirmation, my copy of that particular pdf doesn't get much better even when magnified...

 

[theageofthetra]

Is the original viaduct actually dirty or was it built in blue brick?

It would have been in traditional yellow London brick. The colour of the original viaduct is almost black after hundred+ years of polution. I think it is nice that NR have realised the heritage of the viaduct and have faced the new section in London brick but surely it added unnecessary cost and time to the project? The brick appears to be purely cosmetic unless anyone knows different.

With all respect to Millwall supporters & Bermondsey residents it is hardly in a scenic area being sandwiched between the New Den, a recyling centre, railway lines and a post industrial wasteland!

If you want to see a great example of what restored London brick looks like compared to ones stained by years of polution then take a look at the building sandwiched between the new Borough market jct overbridge and the original. It was restored last year and all the original brick completely cleaned except for the side which was too close to the original line for the contractor to work on.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers for the Speeds. That is actually pretty good and hopefully we will get decent signalling through the diveunder. The old Blue Anchor almost always had a check down. Hopefully signal sighting won't be an issue either.

As to the brickwork. Not quite to my taste and it does look more cosmetic than anything else but why not ? I'm between two minds if they should leave the juxtaposition of old and new or clean the old brickwork.