Best Mainline Loco in 2011?

[Temple Meads]

Mod Note - Poll removed, but discussion reopened

OK guys, not sure if this has been done before, this is a poll to find out what RUK members think is the best main line loco operating in the UK in 2011.
Preserved classes aren't included..

 

[40086]

Depends on criteria, best express passenger loco class 91 (only EP loco?), best freight loco class 59 based on reliability & cost to run.

However, given longevity & overall reliable service you could make the case for class 37 / 47!

I'll go with class 37 on they make the best noise criteria!

 

[SprinterMan]

Class 90 for me, see them all the time on GEML, fantastic things. 37/47/57/67 are also very good :P

 

[cj_1985]

I clicked voted for the class 66...

yes they may be far from the most atractive locos..
they are not typically anyones prefered class...
and they are not the most comfortable locos for drivers...

BUT they have made a big difference in the freight market...
and i don't think that the british freight market would be where it is... if the industry had tried to manage with only class 31, 33, 37, 47, 56, 58 and 60s... (im not counting electric locos- compare the ammount of electrically hauled freight with that hauled by diesel alone)

yes they could probably have managed to run services.. but not with the same level of reliability as the class 66,
the services they could have run.. would probably have been shorter than what is possible with the class 66 and even class70

 

[Kingfisher200262]

I know this will open a can of worms, but I really think that the Class 43 HST power car should be included and if it were, should win by a country mile.

The reasoning for it being considered as a loco is simple... it can be operated under its own power, without anything else being coupled to it. Yes, it's only got one cab, but then so does an 08 and a 20.

 

[mumrar]

I know this will open a can of worms, but I really think that the Class 43 HST power car should be included and if it were, should win by a country mile.

The reasoning for it being considered as a loco is simple... it can be operated under its own power, without anything else being coupled to it. Yes, it's only got one cab, but then so does an 08 and a 20.

Sorry to squash that, but the first traction manuals were for Class 253 and 254 units, so that's what they are. You can swap coaches out on a Class 170, that doesn't make the driving vehicle a loco.

 

[AlterEgo]

I know this will open a can of worms, but I really think that the Class 43 HST power car should be included and if it were, should win by a country mile.

The reasoning for it being considered as a loco is simple... it can be operated under its own power, without anything else being coupled to it. Yes, it's only got one cab, but then so does an 08 and a 20.

A Class 43 is definitely a loco in my book, and is a winner hands down, for cultural and aesthetic reasons more than anyone else.

I'll be first in the queue to buy shares in preserved HSTs when the day comes that they're retired. Wonderful British design and engineering, almost on a par with Concorde (well, the bits we designed anyway! )

 

[cj_1985]

to be fair ... the actual question is pretty ambiguous/open to interpritation...

since you cant fairly judge the class 37 against a class 90 or 91 (for example)
the class 37 is more or less a freight only engine (plus the odd charter)... while the 90 is passenger and freight... and the 91 is passenger only.

so to be fair you would need to be specific and say "the best mainline passenger loco" or "Best mainline freight loco"

so...
IMHO the british rail freight market couldnt manage without the GM and GE class 59, 66, and 70s)
High speed wise... you can't beat the HST...
Dual purpose freight/passenger diesel... class 47 hands down
Passenger work.. class 90
but as with the GM/GE point... how would the country manage without the class 08/09... a class that by most expectations, should have been removed from service and scrapped years ago... but they have proven themselves to be fit for the purpose they were intended for... shunting, look at container "ports" ... still using class 08 and 09s daily for shunting, still being used for short trip workings in places, and GBRf obviously have faith in them since they intend to use a pair of class 09s on mainline, daily workings in the North East (on trains for Rio Tinto Alcan). Who would have thought you would see that sort of thing happening in this day and age (by someone apart from DBS)

 

[GNER 373]

Just for the fun of the poll as that's what it's meant to be I voted Class 91, fastest, most seen on my local line (ECML) been for a cab ride in one! Still a brilliant loco even for it's age (22 years)

 

[Temple Meads]

In all honesty, I perhaps should have said "Favourite" rather than best, that sums it up more.
As for the HST power car, they would be my favourite, but I didn't include them, as then can only really be hooked up to coaching stock, they're a power car rather than a loco.

 

[Smudger105e]

Who would have thought you would see that sort of thing happening in this day and age (by someone apart from DBS)

Just curious as to why you put this comment. Was it because DBS are innovative, or another reason?

 

[bladesman123]

If its just for 2011 then im going to say any of the class 70s (apart from 70012, of course)

 

[Boothby97]

I'm a fan of the Class 47, 56, 60, 90 and 92. Fan of 20, 37 and 86.
But I hate Class 40, 52, 70 and some of the early AC Electrics (except 81002).
Thanks, Sam

 

[12CSVT]

If it is loco types operating on the main line then for me it would be a six way tie between classes 08/09, 20, 37, 43(HST power cars), 73 and 86. Although the HSTs are the only type not to have suffered mass withdrawals, all these classes of loco have provided many years of reliable service.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Oh god, here goes the old HST loco vs. unit debate again, not had that one for a few months

I personally think the 37s if properly maintained are the best locos around, just for their versitility. They can go anywhere and do anything. Ok they might need pairing up for the heavier loads, but unless the majority of the work is heavy (for example Freightliner) then surely it's more efficient to run 2 smaller locos on heavy work and a single smaller loco on lighter work than 1 large loco on heavy work and one large loco on lighter work. As other have said, they are also best for noise, and look good too. When you consider they have outlived many more modern types too, it's even better, and to be honest I think it's only the need to find work for the 67s that means more aren't around (excepting Chiltern and ECML Thunderbirds, the majority of work the 67s do the 37s could do as well if not better, and i'm sure cheaper).

 

[krus_aragon]

Ok they might need pairing up for the heavier loads, but unless the majority of the work is heavy (for example Freightliner) then surely it's more efficient to run 2 smaller locos on heavy work and a single smaller loco on lighter work than 1 large loco on heavy work and one large loco on lighter work.

You sound like a proponent of the Midland Railway's small engine policy!

 

[Barrett M95]

In my mind it's not just loco OR multiple unit.

Some guidelines to my thinking:

Loco - Can be driven in both directions when running light by just one operator with a clear view of the track ahead from their seat/driving position. Can be hooked up to more than one kind of stock. Does not carry passengers.

MU - Permenantly or semi-permenantly coupled together in fixed formation (applies to railcars too). Cabs built into a vehicle that carries passengers. Engines or power equipment under floor. Often run in multiple by coupling up to another example of same or compatible class.

And that requires in reality a third category:

Power cars - A non passenger carrying vehicle with one driving cab which when light can only be driven in one direction and has the sole purpose of providing motive power to a fixed formation train with another example at the opposite end of the train set. Such sets are not run in multiple in normal service.

The latter category would of course include HST's and Eurostars.

 

[TDK]

A Class 43 is definitely a loco in my book, and is a winner hands down, for cultural and aesthetic reasons more than anyone else.

I'll be first in the queue to buy shares in preserved HSTs when the day comes that they're retired. Wonderful British design and engineering, almost on a par with Concorde (well, the bits we designed anyway! )

A class 43 is not a loco. It does not work independantly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mod Note - Poll removed, but discussion reopened

OK guys, not sure if this has been done before, this is a poll to find out what RUK members think is the best main line loco operating in the UK in 2011.
Preserved classes aren't included..

The only loco's in regular service are class 90/91/92 57/59/66/67/70 not a great choice, ok you may get the odd 47, 86 and 60 but hey it has to be the 67 currently I thinks.

By far the best freight loco (practibility wise & not enthusiast wise) that has ever been used in this country is the 59

 

[junglejames]

A class 43 is not a loco. It does not work independantly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The only loco's in regular service are class 90/91/92 57/59/66/67/70 not a great choice, ok you may get the odd 47, 86 and 60 but hey it has to be the 67 currently I thinks.

By far the best freight loco (practibility wise & not enthusiast wise) that has ever been used in this country is the 59

43s can be used independantly cant they? Ive seen a video of one hauling just a barrier vehicle around. Makes me think they have run around independantly as well.
At the end of the day, they are now a class 43. A locomotive class. They did have an MU classification originally as it was expected they would run around in a fixed formation. This never quite worked out as they expected, and at the end of the day, they were basically a loco at each end of a fleet of Mk3s. So they gained the 43 classification.

Plus, if a 57 is regular, then so are 47s, 60s and 86s. They are in everyday service. Thats regular service in my eyes.

 

[mumrar]

43s can be used independantly cant they? Ive seen a video of one hauling just a barrier vehicle around. Makes me think they have run around independantly as well.
At the end of the day, they are now a class 43. A locomotive class. They did have an MU classification originally as it was expected they would run around in a fixed formation. This never quite worked out as they expected, and at the end of the day, they were basically a loco at each end of a fleet of Mk3s. So they gained the 43 classification.

Plus, if a 57 is regular, then so are 47s, 60s and 86s. They are in everyday service. Thats regular service in my eyes.

HST powercars can only supply electric to HST Mk3s, let alone all other designation of coaching stock, unless heavily modified (Network Rail's NMT). They were built solely for passenger use, and the only time they operate passenger services they have HST Mk3s with them.

 

[Voyager 2093]

Surprised no one has voted for the 67. I think the acceleration on this thing, is second to none, the reliability is adequate, but the pulling power and fuel capacity of this thing is just amazing.

 

[junglejames]

HST powercars can only supply electric to HST Mk3s, let alone all other designation of coaching stock, unless heavily modified (Network Rail's NMT). They were built solely for passenger use, and the only time they operate passenger services they have HST Mk3s with them.

60s cant supply electricity to anything!!
The fact they only haul one type of vehicle in passenger use doesnt make them any less a loco. Its a loco designed to work perfectly with a certain type of stock.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surprised no one has voted for the 67. I think the acceleration on this thing, is second to none, the reliability is adequate, but the pulling power and fuel capacity of this thing is just amazing.

Was that meant tongue in cheek?!!

 

[12CSVT]

Surprised no one has voted for the 67. I think the acceleration on this thing, is second to none, the reliability is adequate, but the pulling power and fuel capacity of this thing is just amazing.

Pulling power ? On a class 67 ?

An 08 has a higher tractive effort at 156 kn (compared with the paltry 141 kn on a 67).

 

[40086]

A Class 43 is definitely a loco in my book, and is a winner hands down, for cultural and aesthetic reasons more than anyone else.

I'll be first in the queue to buy shares in preserved HSTs when the day comes that they're retired. Wonderful British design and engineering, almost on a par with Concorde (well, the bits we designed anyway! )

A class 43 is not a loco. It does not work independantly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mod Note - Poll removed, but discussion reopened

OK guys, not sure if this has been done before, this is a poll to find out what RUK members think is the best main line loco operating in the UK in 2011.
Preserved classes aren't included..

The only loco's in regular service are class 90/91/92 57/59/66/67/70 not a great choice, ok you may get the odd 47, 86 and 60 but hey it has to be the 67 currently I thinks.

By far the best freight loco (practibility wise & not enthusiast wise) that has ever been used in this country is the 59

37s in regular use with DRS, 47s with WCRC, DRS, 86s still worked heavily by FL & 60s being overhauled by DBS & certainly still working daily!

In terms if diesel freight locos working heavy loads you are correct!

Trouble with HST powercar debate is they are whatever you believe them to be! I don't buy the single ended argument btw what about class 20s, or indeed abroad where some railways operate articulated locos! Plenty of single cabbed USA locos!

It seems that the only way people can exclude the HST powercar from being the most successful currently in service loco is to say it's not a loco, rather than point to any inherent design flaws! Speaks volumes to me!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

HST powercars can only supply electric to HST Mk3s, let alone all other designation of coaching stock, unless heavily modified (Network Rail's NMT). They were built solely for passenger use, and the only time they operate passenger services they have HST Mk3s with them.

So how would you classify the NRMs prototype 41001? It does have couplings at both ends (under a panel at the front) it has a rear driving position (notch 2 only I believe). So if / when the current scheme to get it working again is completed it could run on say the ELR, hauling the air-braked mk2 PVs, and actually run round & run blunt end first! Hope I'm there to get it in as well!

41001 & 41002 often ran with LHCS including mk2as.

The productions PCs aren't that different, & I would remind you back to back power cars have worked the sleepers when there have been issues with the 47 / 57 and needed rescuing!

Answers most of the no loco points I think.

 

[T163R]

Class 70.

Yeah I know, I know it wasn't funny !!

Anyway, I'll think of 66s for freight and maybe 90 for passenger trains.