Big Stations with no Ticket Barriers

[RPI]

Barriers whether you like them or not are a necessary evil these days, i couldn't imagine how much money would be lost at places like Bristol and Reading these days without them, to say that on train checks should be the only means is rediculous and only someone who has absolutely no inside knowledge of the railway could be naive enough to think this. The truth is that passenger numbers are increasing rapidly and it is impossible (for example) for even 2 people to get even a quarter of the tickets done on some busy services in the peaks. Barriers though must only be part of the solution with regular on train checks carried out as well! Some good news is that Taunton, Didcot, Cheltenham, Newbury and Gloucester will all be gated in the next few months, manual checks have already begun at most of these.

 

[CC 72100]

Barriers whether you like them or not are a necessary evil these days, i couldn't imagine how much money would be lost at places like Bristol and Reading these days without them, to say that on train checks should be the only means is rediculous and only someone who has absolutely no inside knowledge of the railway could be naive enough to think this. The truth is that passenger numbers are increasing rapidly and it is impossible (for example) for even 2 people to get even a quarter of the tickets done on some busy services in the peaks. Barriers though must only be part of the solution with regular on train checks carried out as well! Some good news is that Taunton, Didcot, Cheltenham, Newbury and Gloucester will all be gated in the next few months, manual checks have already begun at most of these.

Yes, I saw the manual checks at Gloucester in force this week. About time too! They may not kill faredodging completely, but it will go some way into improving the situation.

 

[northwichcat]

Would I be right in saying Stockport have no ticket barriers?

Correct, no station operated by Virgin currently has automated ticket barriers.

The layout of Stockport and the fact that many passengers interchange at Stockport wouldn't suit automatic barriers anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

London Euston*, Birmingham New Street and Manchester Piccadilly are all free of ticket gates. Sometimes you will find RPIs doing ticket inspections in place of barriers, but more often than not, you're free to wander on and off the platforms.

It's changed a bit since you posted that. You need a ticket to get on to platforms 2, 3, 10, 11, 13 or 14 from the main entrances. The door labelled as platform 11 is permanently locked off and you can't go directly from platform 11 to platform 12. The inspections for 10, 11, 13 and 14 are all at the rear of platforms 10 and 11. This means there is now a ticket machine in the 'lounge' area above platforms 13 and 14 that you can't get to unless you have a ticket. :roll:

 

[stevefreestone]

Barriers whether you like them or not are a necessary evil these days, i couldn't imagine how much money would be lost at places like Bristol and Reading these days without them, to say that on train checks should be the only means is rediculous and only someone who has absolutely no inside knowledge of the railway could be naive enough to think this. The truth is that passenger numbers are increasing rapidly and it is impossible (for example) for even 2 people to get even a quarter of the tickets done on some busy services in the peaks. Barriers though must only be part of the solution with regular on train checks carried out as well! Some good news is that Taunton, Didcot, Cheltenham, Newbury and Gloucester will all be gated in the next few months, manual checks have already begun at most of these.

I'm saying that the way the barriers are arranged at KX are dangerous and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't cause a serious injury one day.

 

[12CSVT]

Some good news is that Taunton, Didcot, Cheltenham, Newbury and Gloucester will all be gated in the next few months, manual checks have already begun at most of these.

Hope this doesn't hinder access to Didcot Railway Centre.

 

[172212]

'technically' Birmingham new street doesn't have any ticket barriers, staff check the passes and tickets
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Worcester Stations, Coventry, Birmingham International, Wolverhampton

 

[Greenback]

Barriers whether you like them or not are a necessary evil these days, i couldn't imagine how much money would be lost at places like Bristol and Reading these days without them, to say that on train checks should be the only means is rediculous and only someone who has absolutely no inside knowledge of the railway could be naive enough to think this. The truth is that passenger numbers are increasing rapidly and it is impossible (for example) for even 2 people to get even a quarter of the tickets done on some busy services in the peaks. Barriers though must only be part of the solution with regular on train checks carried out as well! Some good news is that Taunton, Didcot, Cheltenham, Newbury and Gloucester will all be gated in the next few months, manual checks have already begun at most of these.

Well said RPI. Barriers ar enot the be all and end all, but I am confident they help to deter some fare evaders.

I'm saying that the way the barriers are arranged at KX are dangerous and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't cause a serious injury one day.

People were saying the same thing about the Reading barriers back in the late 90's.

 

[stevefreestone]

Well said RPI. Barriers ar enot the be all and end all, but I am confident they help to deter some fare evaders.

Whilst treating fare paying customers like cattle.

 

[RPI]

Whilst treating fare paying customers like cattle.

only to peole who seem to find placing a ticket into a slot "challenging".
Barriers make a huge difference to dealing with hardcore fare evaders, before widespread gating i used to spend most of my time selling tickets to people who should have bought them at the station whilst the hard core got away with it because i never got to them, now nearly everyone has a ticket which means i have more time to a) deal with other passenger queries and customer service duties b) deal with the hard core few idiots who still insist on avoiding their fare by doing things like buying a ticket to the next stop. What we are also missing here is that barriers ensure everyone getting off trains have tickets, yes there are times when someon has travelled from A to C and only pays from B to C but a) at least the railway gets A fare from them and b) it allows us to do operations where we block outlying stations and then deal with people who buy short tickets.

 

[JonathanH]

Well said RPI. Barriers ar enot the be all and end all, but I am confident they help to deter some fare evaders.



People were saying the same thing about the Reading barriers back in the late 90's.

Reading's barriers went live in February 2000

 

[CC 72100]

Whilst treating fare paying customers like cattle.

If you've got a valid ticket, then I don't see how putting a ticket into a barrier is treating people like 'cattle'. Far from it. I don't exactly feel 'aggrieved' and treated like a criminal when I use a ticket barrier to enter/exit a station; in fact quite the opposite, as it is reassuring to see that efforts to stop faredodging is being made, helping to make sure that ticket prices do not rise to compromise those who do not pay, and that no-one is getting for free something that I have paid for.

 

[Holly]

If you've got a valid ticket, then I don't see how putting a ticket into a barrier is treating people like 'cattle'. Far from it. I don't exactly feel 'aggrieved' and ... .

The problem is not barriers per se.

The resentment arises when barriers won't accept a valid ticket and have no feature to listen to a reasoned explanation as to why the ticket is valid.

Manned barriers are fine, it's the use of unmanned machines that treats people like cattle.

 

[RPI]

The problem is not barriers per se.

The resentment arises when barriers won't accept a valid ticket and have no feature to listen to a reasoned explanation as to why the ticket is valid.

Manned barriers are fine, it's the use of unmanned machines that treats people like cattle.

No such thing as un manned barriers, they have to be staffed by law, if no staff=barriers open!

 

[Mojo]

No such thing as un manned barriers, they have to be staffed by law, if no staff=barriers open!

The Railway Group Standards allow for barriers to be remotely operated provided they can be monitored by CCTV, with remote control of individual gates, and where a communication device enables customers to talk to the operator. Ticket gates can also be operational if someone is in a ticket office nearby.

In both cases I would describe the barriers as ''unstaffed'' and I feel this is a poor show, in both customer service and revenue protection terms.

 

[mallard]

Manned barriers are fine, it's the use of unmanned machines that treats people like cattle.

Let's also not forget how much of a pain barriers are when you have luggage and the fact their installation has severely restricted passenger flow (and in some cases, resulted in closure of some station entrances) at many stations.

Not to mention that you can no longer help your elderly mother with her bags or use the toilet while you wait for your friend, etc...

They make sense at commuter stations, there really is little need for them at large stations dominated by intercity services.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm saying that the way the barriers are arranged at KX are dangerous and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't cause a serious injury one day.

Numerous injuries occur on a daily basis on the London Underground with escalators and barriers being common causes of injuries.

 

[RPI]

The Railway Group Standards allow for barriers to be remotely operated provided they can be monitored by CCTV, with remote control of individual gates, and where a communication device enables customers to talk to the operator. Ticket gates can also be operational if someone is in a ticket office nearby.

In both cases I would describe the barriers as ''unstaffed'' and I feel this is a poor show, in both customer service and revenue protection terms.

Still technically manned though but i take your point, CCTV controlled gatelines are only usually for "Back entrances" and such, like the top entrance at Exeter Central etc. General society is to blame for the need for ticket gates as people are as a rule chanceras these days, i've noticed in my time on the railway the number of chancers rise dramatically over the past few years.

 

[Holly]

Let's also not forget how much of a pain barriers are when you have luggage and the fact their installation has severely restricted passenger flow (and in some cases, resulted in closure of some station entrances) at many stations.
Not to mention that you can no longer help your elderly mother with her bags or use the toilet while you wait for your friend, etc...
They make sense at commuter stations, there really is little need for them at large stations dominated by intercity services.

Not to mention deaf or blind travellers or unaccompanied minors.

Manned should mean there is a person who is not so far away that you can't engage them in a conversation. If you can't converse with the ticket collector without using a machine of some kind it shouldn't count.

Whatever next? Manned can mean a sign with a telephone number is provided so you can call on your mobile to ask for the gate to be unlocked?

 

[N P Johnson]

Barriers whether you like them or not are a necessary evil these days, i couldn't imagine how much money would be lost at places like Bristol and Reading these days without them, to say that on train checks should be the only means is rediculous and only someone who has absolutely no inside knowledge of the railway could be naive enough to think this. The truth is that passenger numbers are increasing rapidly and it is impossible (for example) for even 2 people to get even a quarter of the tickets done on some busy services in the peaks. Barriers though must only be part of the solution with regular on train checks carried out as well! Some good news is that Taunton, Didcot, Cheltenham, Newbury and Gloucester will all be gated in the next few months, manual checks have already begun at most of these.

Except that, as I've said in a previous posting, they are unique to Britain (at least as far as mainline services are concerned) and few if any other European countries deploy them so extensively. And elsewhere in Europe "on train checks" ARE the only method of ticket control being used, and no other country seems to feel the need to bring in barriers. I believe Germany may have had them up until the 1960s, but they got rid of them for a reason. Unless Britain's railways are somehow vastly different to those of other comparable countries, I may be "naive" but I find it difficult to see why we must adopt a system seldom used elsewhere, or how it can be argued that we can't manage without them.

As for the comment about passengers being treated like cattle, I suspect the person making that comment has observed that those operating barriers can often be officious and tend to treat every honest passenger as a potential fare evader. Problems may arise where passengers have bicycles or especially cumbersome luggage.

 

[390026]

Dare I say Birmingham New Street?

Dare you? It is technically barriered but not automatic barriers and the staff are never ever there!!!!!

 

[8J]

Liverpool Lime Street Barriers are very strange. Firstly, if you come from the Underground platform for the merseyrail network, the lift takes you directly into the mainline station, skipping out the ticket barriers section by the underground subway. This is a very well known local myth as I know people who will even change trains and wait 5 mins just to go one stop to avoid the fares

Also, platforms 1-6 have a barrier which everyone must walk through to exit/enter these platforms which is a manned barrier. Platform 7 is the VT platform and the train manager usually inspects tickets before people board the train, however, the devious souls amongst us would know to go up Platform 8 and across past the 1st Class lounge. Platforms 8 and 9 have no barriers and I have never seen any RPI's there.

 

[northwichcat]

This is a very well known local myth as I know people who will even change trains and wait 5 mins just to go one stop to avoid the fares

Very risky to do though as you could face a penalty fare if caught without a valid ticket.

 

[island]

Or worse, prosecution!

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Surely the only genuine objecters to Barriers are those who are used to travelling free.

All of the barriers in this area are manned, when in use, and all have an especially wide opening for those with luggage or wheelchairs. The barrier staff are always helpful to those in difficulty. My only objection is that the barriers at Bridgend are left open too early in the evening so that the majority of 'clubbers' coming in are still travelling free.

 

[northwichcat]

Surely the only genuine objecters to Barriers are those who are used to travelling free.

If you mean barriers in general (including manual ones.) There are numerous problems with automated ticket barriers are detailed in this thread.

 

[N P Johnson]

Surely the only genuine objecters to Barriers are those who are used to travelling free.

I'm not used to travelling free, but on an earlier posting I've already given at least 10 reasons why I don't like this uniquely British institution.

Clarence has to catch a flight to New York from Manchester Airport. He was meant to be getting a lift from his mate Herbert, but that morning Herbie phones to say his car's broken down. So Clarence checks with train enquiries to see if there's a train that will get him to the airport on time. There is, so he phones a taxi. He knows it's about 30 minutes to the station, and if he gets there 30 minutes in advance, there'll be time to buy a ticket, snacks and something to read, and still catch the train in good time.
But the water board have decided to dig the road up and instal traffic lights. It's a busy time of the day. He didn't know about this. Cars are tailing back a good quarter of a mile, and it takes a good four or five changes of the lights to get through (because as we know, they're often badly set.)
The taxi driver tries to put his foot down once they've got past this, but when Clarence gets to the station, he's only got 5 minutes to catch his train. If he misses it, he also misses the flight. There's a queue at the ticket office, but he's OK, he's got his fare. He'll pay the conductor on board. But really, really can't afford to miss that flight......

 

[390026]

Ely is one with no barriers and its relatively big as its now a 'city and has 3 platforms and widely used

 

[Malton Seadog]

Surprised nobody has mentioned my local big station, Doncaster.

3.7m passengers, and no barriers.

The only ones I have ever seen are manned ones on race day.

 

[island]

I'm not used to travelling free, but on an earlier posting I've already given at least 10 reasons why I don't like this uniquely British institution.

Clarence has to catch a flight to New York from Manchester Airport. He was meant to be getting a lift from his mate Herbert, but that morning Herbie phones to say his car's broken down. So Clarence checks with train enquiries to see if there's a train that will get him to the airport on time. There is, so he phones a taxi. He knows it's about 30 minutes to the station, and if he gets there 30 minutes in advance, there'll be time to buy a ticket, snacks and something to read, and still catch the train in good time.
But the water board have decided to dig the road up and instal traffic lights. It's a busy time of the day. He didn't know about this. Cars are tailing back a good quarter of a mile, and it takes a good four or five changes of the lights to get through (because as we know, they're often badly set.)
The taxi driver tries to put his foot down once they've got past this, but when Clarence gets to the station, he's only got 5 minutes to catch his train. If he misses it, he also misses the flight. There's a queue at the ticket office, but he's OK, he's got his fare. He'll pay the conductor on board. But really, really can't afford to miss that flight......

[PEDANT]I don't think there are any flights from Manchester to New York these days.[/PEDANT]

There will always be hard cases in every situation and the threshold for approval of a change, such as installing gates, should not be "are we sure that not one person in the entire world will be worse off due to the change", but "in the overall balance, will the utility (or convenience) of the station's users, the TOCs, and the staff be higher as a result of the change". If gates increase the amount of fares sold, that will have an indirect effect on a large number of people as it may hold down the fare increase on their ticket next January, and that small benefit to a lot of people may well outweigh the large detriment caused to Clarence by his choice not to allow extra time for contingencies on his trip.

 

[Ascot]

[PEDANT]I don't think there are any flights from Manchester to New York these days.[/PEDANT]

*Anti-Pedant* AA211 MAN-JFK, UA21 MAN-EWR.


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