The upline loop used to be there and provision has been made to put it back if needed.
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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification
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The upline loop used to be there and provision has been made to put it back if needed.
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I suspect it was because they had to put in the overhead structures before the 4 track was lifted?
I have checked my photos and the masts were up before the track was re-aligned, but a lot of new ballast was put down where the loop line used to be, I don't think NR have that kind of money to throw around for the fun of it.
I think that Joseph Locke suggested some time back that the work was done for a potential loop, perhaps he could confirm it for us.
LDECRexile
Established Member
I'd wager a pint that the term used was "passive provision".
Sorry, no pint today, see JL's post 3971.
GRALISTAIR
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<a href="https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...r-electrification.66879/page-133#post-2927157">Blackpool - Manchester Electrification</a>
TBSchenker
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TPE seem to be diverting via Bolton overnight next week. I'm not sure I've seen anything about 350s being cleared via the route yet. Certainly don't think one has run that way.
Could've run via Bolton on Saturday when Kenyon Jn flooded on the Chat Moss but they didn't, so mustn't be cleared.
Could've run via Bolton on Saturday when Kenyon Jn flooded on the Chat Moss but they didn't, so mustn't be cleared.
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LeylandLen
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AT least 1 Edinburgh service terminating overnight next week at Man Victoria instead of Picc or Airport, then returns ECS to Lancaster.
TBSchenker
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I've had it confirmed by Network Rail that the Blanket ESR for electric trains of 75mph is still in force!
jonesy3001
Established Member
I take it the ORR haven't approved the 100mph testing they did with the 319.
It's not really likely to be a priority considering the sectional running times are still based on 75mph line speeds. There is a short 75mph TSR related to earthworks issues on the up Bolton near Kearsley which isn't likely to be lifted any time soon even when the blanket 75mph ESR is lifted.
Must admit I'm a bit confused by this. On my train (319) from Horwich Parkway to Preston (7:31) last monday, the train arrived 3 minutes early, between HWI and Chorley we hit 84mph according to my phone, between BPV and Preston we hit 89 mph (on the WMCL). Couldn't check it on the way back due to the fatality at Adlington (got a taxi back). Yesterday Salford Central to Bolton never went above 75mph, so my phone is fairly accurate.
The Brand new 30 year old trains do rattle (the air conditioning vents) some what, the refurb is OK but can't hide the age of them.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
The brand new 30 year old trains don't have the luxury of air conditioning, so the rattle must be from something else.
Sorry if my humour doesn't come across, we were promised air con but ended up with rattling windows, trying to be sarcastic but failed
Speed on the WCML is irrelevant; the 75mph restriction is/was between Euxton Jn and Manchester only. I must admit I've been confused by the speed limit situation as well; I regularly watch one of the evening trains through Adlington, and thus far they don't seem to have been going faster than the DMUs do.
To be fair, the 331s will have this when they're introduced.
jonesy3001
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Have the 323s been route cleared for the manchester - bolton and preston - blackpool lines, sure i've seen a picture of one at preston.
Not yet, officially.
Officially, according to the sectional appendix update from this month's PON, they're not cleared for the Chat Moss route or Earlestown to Warrington BQ, however they have had two diagrams daily covering these routes since late last year!
TBSchenker
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350s mustn't have had their clearance as the 2213 Edinburgh - Manchester Victoria has been terminating at Preston on Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday .I guess tonight too, unless the fax machines have been busy!
Bertie the bus
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Looks more like engineering possessions as late night / early morning Manchester - Preston via Bolton services have been buses.
Joseph_Locke
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The upgrade work included for pretty much everything electric that existed in 2012, and 323s caused most of the bigger changes. 319, 321, 323, 350 and 390 are all clear. Where the paperwork is up to I wouldn't know.
furnessvale
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I am still at a loss as to why this happens.
In the "bad" old days, the rolling stock engineer built trains that conformed to C1, W8 etc, and the civil engineer made sure a certain route conformed to C1, W8 etc. No need for every new type to be passed for each route.
What went wrong?
jonesy3001
Established Member
Just got me thinking with the 319s always breaking down are the 323s also cleared for the routes also.
Thanks for the answers guys.
Joseph_Locke
Established Member
Greed, with a hint of bad specification. Acknowledging that PG1/2/3 are supposed to address this, every few years someone buys a train that pushes the boundaries - class 158, class 373, IEP and quite likely HS2's Conventional Compatibles are all culprits. This is all exacerbated by NR not really having a grip on their infrastructure either, since VE became a god to be worshipped.
The W series is all about freight - in theory all passenger trains should fit a W6A route but it just isn't true: there are W12 routes cleared for 373/2 and there also ones that aren't ... not that 373/2 will ever operate in the UK ever again.
Summary - the train builders don't have to pay to tweak the infrastructure, so why would they bother with compromises?
Putting a 323 on the route would need quite a bit of forward planning and training. It certainly couldn't be done ad hoc to cover failures. Only Piccadilly and Liverpool drivers and guards sign 323s. Of those only some Piccadilly drivers sign to Preston, guards don't so would need route conducting. You'd then need a Lime St crew to take it from Preston to Blackpool. Also in the event of failure it wouldn't be easy to rescue as you'd have no unit that can couple in the area.Just got me thinking with the 319s always breaking down are the 323s also cleared for the routes also.
Thanks for the answers guys.
furnessvale
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They would if they were given a specification, say, C1, and if their trains didn't fit they had to take them back for modification that THEIR expense.
Having said that, if NR got their route wrong and it was no longer fit for C1, the cost would be on NR to get it right.
furnessvale
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Another major failing alongside gauging issues. ONE standard coupling on all units. It seems we learned nothing from the days of blue squares, yellow diamonds, red spots etc!
SansHache
Member
The Network Rail Summary of Rolling Stock / Infrastructure Compatibility certificate for Class 323 operation on the Bolton route was signed off on 8th February.
"Class 323 vehicles are compatible for interim service operation, in both directions, on the following routes:
MVE1 Deal Street Jn - Bolton West Jn
MVE2 Bolton West Jn - Euxton Jn
OLW Ordsall Lane Jn - Windsor Bridge South Jn"
The interim certificate is valid until 12th July when it will either be extended or be replaced by a series service version.
The interim service certificate for Class 323 operation on the Chat Moss route, Liverpool - Preston via St Helens and the Blackpool route was issued on 16th January and is valid to 22nd November.
Class 323s are now approved for operation by Network Rail on all north-west electrified routes. I am sure they will be seen more frequently on the new routes once the May timetable is introduced.
"Class 323 vehicles are compatible for interim service operation, in both directions, on the following routes:
MVE1 Deal Street Jn - Bolton West Jn
MVE2 Bolton West Jn - Euxton Jn
OLW Ordsall Lane Jn - Windsor Bridge South Jn"
The interim certificate is valid until 12th July when it will either be extended or be replaced by a series service version.
The interim service certificate for Class 323 operation on the Chat Moss route, Liverpool - Preston via St Helens and the Blackpool route was issued on 16th January and is valid to 22nd November.
Class 323s are now approved for operation by Network Rail on all north-west electrified routes. I am sure they will be seen more frequently on the new routes once the May timetable is introduced.
Jozhua
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Another major failing alongside gauging issues. ONE standard coupling on all units. It seems we learned nothing from the days of blue squares, yellow diamonds, red spots etc!
Agreed, there is no good reason to have different couplings, even if the units wouldn't typically work with each other it could be useful for shunting/rescue!
How many more electric services are we likely to see come May time? I'm quite enjoying zipping round Manchester on my 319's in relative quietness!
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