GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Very few people are true leaders - and true leaders are not universally liked anyway. I am reminded of a Steve Jobs quote. If you want to please everyone, don’t be a leader - sell ice cream.
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Boris to resign? (Speculation) And who should replace him?
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221101 Voyager
Established Member
That quote made me chuckle!
Who's seen this about Boris recently?
Boris Johnson reportedly fears 'he does not have enough money'
An embarrassing feature in a national newspaper has painted a dark picture of Number 10
My heart bleeds, it really does! Just shows even conservatives can run out of money like the rest of us!
Still, enjoy the Jaguar XJ while it lasts Boris! He'll soon be back to his Toyota Previa!
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It's not the first time it's been reported.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Jeremiah 10:23 - Jeremiah's Prayer
I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not his own; no one who walks directs his own steps.
biblehub.com
Even the Bible says as in the quote above that man is not capable of directing his own steps even!
That quote made me chuckle!
Who's seen this about Boris recently?
Boris Johnson reportedly fears 'he does not have enough money'
An embarrassing feature in a national newspaper has painted a dark picture of Number 10www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
My heart bleeds, it really does! Just shows even conservatives can run out of money like the rest of us!
Its utter rubbish. He is a multi millionaire who knows he will make a fortune after leaving office. He is has 6 confirmed children but half of them are adults. The rumours are important not because they are true but because they are seemingly being pushed by Tory MPs. The Tier 3 Manchester fiasco added several more Tory MPs to the list of who wants him gone.
My money is on a successful attempt to remove him between January and May next year. Some of the concessions that appear to be being made to get a trade deal with the EU won't make him popular with hard core brexiteers and no trade deal would anger everyone else. The Tories need to keep him until January to take the blame for either outcome. He is a liability for the union in Scottish Parliament elections in May. There is a small window for Tory MPs who don't like him to make their move. If he gets a trade deal with the EU then he may use it as an opportunity to quit on his own terms, also citing health and family reasons. There have been some significant moves by both sides in the last few days and I suspect Boris is being motivated by trying to establish something positive that he can sell as his legacy.
221101 Voyager
Established Member
I don't know who could replace him. Who is the favourite or is there not one yet?
Still wouldn't please everyone. Someone would moan it's too cold or a small portion or too expensive.
Rishi Sunak is bookies favourite. After him it would be a free for all. Gove, Raab, Hancock, Williamson and Patel are all heavily compromised by past or recent behaviour. Sajid Javid would have support amongst the right of the party. Penny Mordaunt would be a good long odds bet. Jeremy Hunt is probably too compromised by NHS funding during his long tenure. The two shortlisted by Tory MPs for members to pick would currently be Sunak and Javid. There are not enough die hard no dealers to support a no deal candidate getting to second place.
221101 Voyager
Established Member
Rishi Sunak? I don't know much about him, but he seems nice enough. Before anyone says, yes I know he is the chancellor.
He seems nice enough because he's throwing money around like it's going out of fashion, it's the only thing he's known for by the public at large. Once the reality of throwing money around results in unavoidable tax rises and the favoured Tory word 'Austerity' comes back into fashion, he'll not be seen as nice any more.
I think thats his advantage, he is articulate, explains things well and has made few enemies. I don't buy a lot the spin about his ability but is relatively competent and surrounded by incompetent people. The benefits of having an ethnic minority PM to sell "Global Britiain" to the world will be obvious to Tory MPs. The usual attack lines of Empire 2.0, UK being racist etc won't be effective with Sunak or Javid in charge.
There won't be tax rises until at least April 2022. The economy won't be able to take it next year. I doubt Boris will make it through the next 18 months at the rate he is alienating his own MPs.
221101 Voyager
Established Member
If Sunak remains competent, I think I could see him being PM definitely. He also has a clean and trouble free past right? Unlike Boris and others.
ThameslinkUser
Member
Starve a kid, to save a quid springs to mind. A fair number of his economic decisions during the pandemic have been fatally flawed, despite other options being prevalent, such as the Eat Out to Help Out scheme leading to an upturn in Covid-cases furthering lockdowns across the country. Oh, and his past? Not perfect either:
New chancellor Rishi Sunak challenged over hedge fund past
Labour questions past City dealings citing former close associate’s participation in tax avoidance scheme
www.theguardian.com
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Absolutely- Rishi or Sajid
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Yep cynical but probably true especially for Brits
Following Biden's election, getting a trade agreement with the US will be much more difficult. This will be made worse by the Biden team's deep dislike of Boris for his breaking of agreements over the Irish border, his past racist comments about Obama and his attempts to suck up to Trump. With Boris increasingly seen as a liability for the Tories, is this likely to hasten his departure?
He was always on a lose-lose over who won the election. If Trump had won (I'm assuming the Supreme Court does not step in) negotiations would be tough simply because the a Trump US would be negotiating from a position of strength with a particular agenda (driven by agriculture and pharma). Our Prime Minister now seems to be putting all his eggs in the EU basket - 'there is a deal to be done' - when six weeks ago the deal had to be done by mid October or he would walk away. If he doesn't get a good deal (ie almost no concessions) the ERG-wing of the Conservatives are not going to be happy, many of them are already smarting over Lockdown Mark II.
His problem might be when to go. Does he claim long-covid and go early or hang on with the hope that something goes right (but risking a visit from 'the men in grey suits'). I must admit I am rather hoping for the visit just to see the look on Theresa May's face!
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Could be a blessing in disguise, a UK-US trade deal would make many enemies along the way in the HoC.
I'd rather his departure be hastened by domestic affairs, not by an ideological US President. Boris is not a 'mini-Trump', Brexit is not Trumpism. Brexit is a symptom of the long-standing socio-political affair within British society that has existed for decades. It is annoying that Biden feels he has to declare war on something that I doubt he truly understands.
In some ways, I don't want Boris to leave because it would suggest British Prime Ministers are not up for the job anymore. Look how many PM's we've had since 2010; Brown, Cameron, May and Johnson. It's appauling really how little longevity there is in British politics anymore. I'm sure the hastening of PM's departures are caused by the rise of social media and the constant scrutiny of a PM from even the smallest of discontented factions. The easy access to opinion polls that cause a Twitter storm when Labour moves 1+ upwards which suggests perpetually that the government is on the verge of collapse. I think the lines between politics and entertainment nowadays are completely removed.
Brown only left because he lost the election (which was at least partly because he was unfairly blamed for the world financial problems) - he was a pretty dour bloke but generally seemed competent.
Cameron and May have basically been victims of Brexit - Cameron by betting the vote would go his way, and May because she was trying to achieve the impossible and fulfill all the unrealistic expectations of Brexit.
Brown was a victim of the electorate, we seem to think we deserve better constantly. I would say that he dealt with the financial situation fairly well (he could have been stricter with the bankers earlier), but we wanted better so we trusted (call me) Dave.
Cameron sulked when things didn't go his way. We DID deserve better then. He could have got the talks rolling before gracefully bowing out, maybe they wouldn't have lasted so long. Theresa May appeared to be constantly undermined from within and, like Brown, was not the most charismatic individual so we placed our vote elsewhere, to the benefit of Corbyn, the men in grey suits took fright and ditched her to be replaced by the current incumbent (whose transition deal was largely the same as his predecessor's - but was sold as something wonderful).
I DO want Boris out, because I don't believe his skill set in any way meets that required of the position. While I agree with the 'scrutiny' element you have raised, the other half of the problem is that for the last ten to twenty years there are politicians who think they can run the country because they have been a moderately successful Minister for Paper Clips (or their shadow). Leadership election after leadership election has offered candidates who in no way could run the country then or ever. Too few are content to make their mark at a ministry (partly because they are likely to be moved on). Instead some of them seem to plot to replace the successful candidate from the word go
birchesgreen
Established Member
They arn't.
nlogax
Established Member
I sincerely doubt this story has merit. Boris Johnson is far too fond of the PM limelight to leave it. Re. the money.. he'll manage. I won't be seeing him at my local Aldi any time soon.
Not sure anything would satisfy them to be honest! We could have crashed out with no-deal back at the end of last year before we signed the Withdrawal Agreement and I'm sure they'd have found a way to complain and object about it all and if only we did "xyz" it would all be wonderful. You'd think that with such a stonking majority he might try and be less beholden to them, but, seemingly not. Then again me might be worried if they do get restive they might take some of the new intake with them seeing as, apparently, it's not been possibly to properly 'induct' them into the parliamentary party due to Covid so they're not quite as loyal as might otherwise be the case!
As much as I don't like Boris I would prefer him to stay as any replacement is likely to be to the right of Boris who isn't a right winger really except on Brexit, and I did reluctantly vote Tory on the basis of Boris being the Prime Minister and not for anyone else in that job.
As far as Brexit goes about the only thing that would make the ERG happy is No Deal, but of course their idea of essentially a desperate trade deal with the US replacing trade with the EU, has been blown out of the water by Biden
As far as Brexit goes about the only thing that would make the ERG happy is No Deal, but of course their idea of essentially a desperate trade deal with the US replacing trade with the EU, has been blown out of the water by Biden
Boris is useful to the Tories until mid-January/early-February. Nobody will want to take the wheel until after the impact of Brexit is actually clear. Then they can take over and blame everything on "the last guy". Which dovetails nicely with the change of administration in the US as they'll also have a "the last guy".
Literally nothing will make them happy, other than a return to the 1880s.
At the last election quite a few of those pro EU conservative MPs stood down (because of the pledge Johnson made them make), add those to the number who were kicked out I would say that the loss was primarily towards the moderate or middle ground of the party, while right-wingers stayed put, by and large. Even if the newcomers are evenly balanced, that would mean a move to the right. Having heard some of them speak, I'm not certain they are - I've had a look through the first few newbies, there are a couple of recruits to the ERG, and another who has recently made derogatory statements about Joe Biden (memo to Boris: check the background of new appointments to the Foreign Office or Dept for Overseas Trade) as well as a few who either have dubious backgrounds or are already imbued in controversy). Having to get so many new candidates in place for Dec. '19 means it looks like a few 'duds' slipped through the net.
C J Snarzell
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This is the problem that concerns me.
Long term, all this public money is going to take hell of a long time to claw back.
If we get to March 2021, and this Covid fiasco is still looming over us - Sunak then extends Furlough until July 2021 then so on....
I can see it possibly taking up to 100 years to put us back in credit again only for another global crisis (usually one every century) to hit and put the economy in the red again.
Thankfully, all of us on here will be long gone by the time the world suffers another catastrophy like Covid.
CJ
Very few (if any) governments run a consistent surplus. If anything, a surplus without debt to service would result in demands for tax decreases. There's a school of thought that says it is actually healthy for governments to run a deficit, the important thing is to ensure that the overall debt level doesn't get out of control. As a point of interest, at the start of 2020 the UK had a lower debt to GDP ratio at 85.6% than Canada (88%), France (99.2%) or the USA (106.7%).
Unfortunately, that's not true. We're in the middle of a crisis that has the potential to make Covid seem like nothing more than a tiny blip.
There has been widespread public support for loosening the British relationship with the US since 2003. If Biden can't move on from Brexit then inadvertently the British people will get their wish. It will be interesting to see how long leaving the UK on the naughty step lasts for. I suspect many Democrats want a permanent rupture but that Biden will get frustrated with working with the EU pretty quickly. Trump was a convenient scapegoat for the health of an alliance with fundmental disagreements. The last thing the US (and EU) needs is to cut the UK out of the loop and for the UK respond by slowly reducing its commitments to NATO. If the UK doesn't get a say in US-Europe relations it won't contribute. Our location puts us very far away from trouble.
Boris will take a big hit by comprising or for no deal. I can't see him being PM this time next year regardless of what he does. Getting a deal at least gives him an opportunity to bow out having "got brexit done".
Boris will take a big hit by comprising or for no deal. I can't see him being PM this time next year regardless of what he does. Getting a deal at least gives him an opportunity to bow out having "got brexit done".
birchesgreen
Established Member
Oh i can't wait for the day the "Special Relationship" is in the dustbin of history where it belongs but the British establishment will fight tooth and nail to keep the illusion of influence.
wireforever
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Don't think our Tory mp will be standing down at the next election he has already claimed £40,000 + in expenses according to rumours on social media no doubt he will rise up the tory ranks soon and do even less as a constituency mp as he will be too busy at Westminster
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