'Bumping' - is it becoming a serious problem?

[LTJ87]

What do people mean by "bumping"? Following someone in front very closely or something else?

Sometimes people do just that. A passenger approaches the gate and taps in and someone behind will push them through so they themselves can clear the gate before it shuts.

Anecdotally, fare evasion seems more prevalent in London. As is theft. People brazenly walk into supermarkets and straight out without paying, or run items through the self checkout and walk away. Even in Pret at lunchtime I've seen someone stick a sandwich down the front of their joggers. My Nextdoor app is full of posts about stolen cars in the morning and parcels stolen from doorsteps in the afternoon.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Official data shows that crime on the London Underground has increased by over 50% in the first half of this financial year compared to the same period last year

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

There has been a marked increase in theft- pickpocketing mainly-which has driven the high-level increase. This type of crime has been on the increase for years- it’s amazing what thirteen years of austerity does.

But in terms of ’dangerous’ crime, the stuff that is about personal safety and not the irritation of having a mobile phone lifted, the Underground is as safe as it’s always been. And certainly a lot better than it was in the late 80s and early 90s.

 

[Mojo]

There has been a marked increase in theft- pickpocketing mainly-which has driven the high-level increase. This type of crime has been on the increase for years- it’s amazing what thirteen years of austerity does.

The actual biggest increase is in robbery, which has almost doubled, and not pickpocketing. Robbery, by its very nature, is a violent crime.

 

[bramling]

The actual biggest increase is in robbery, which has almost doubled, and not pickpocketing. Robbery, by its very nature, is a violent crime.

Yes what is being seen at the moment is people being robbed, potentially with a knife either being mentioned or flashed, whilst on trains. What is concerning is this is happening at times and places where it possibly wouldn't be expected - both on trains and at stations. Staff assaults have increased as well.

 

[Meerkat]

Doesn’t help that Covid has made wearing a mask more acceptable.
Do need a bumping camera, and an easy way for gate staff to push a button to flag a few seconds of CCTV of the gates.
Then look for trends and/or identifiable offenders they can target with a full prosecution and blaze of “they didn’t get away with” PR. I assume lots of the troublemakers will be easily named by local plod.
Also need more agile metal detector/dogs blocks, to make them harder to avoid (they become visible on social media very rapidly, and presumably a decent robbery gang would have someone ahead to check their planned exit)

 

[Acton1991]

In my experience, people fare evade by pushing the wide gates open. I haven’t seen it on a normal gate, these are quite resistant to pushing apart. Is there not a way that these could be replaced with something more sturdy? They’re so flimsy at the moment and so easy to push through.

 

[rg177]

The problem is that the more that gates are forced, the weaker they become. When I did gatelines (not on LU, I should add), the 'problematic' stations had gates so weak that they'd give out with very little resistance. The wide aisle gates were even worse - one station had it away from the main gateline and it was commonly known among staff as the free exit.

I used to challenge people coming in, but would never do such a thing alone or at a 'rough' station. That said, the risk of anything other than a mouthful off the unruly passenger was relatively low. For staff in London, the risk is far higher and the people doing it are an awful lot more brazen. A load of people bashed their way into Wembley Central a few months back and all the staff member on duty did was laugh and take a picture. Clearly, this was some attempt to build up intelligence of who was doing such things. I don't blame him for not doing anything else.

As for people leaving a station, if they're going to jump over and run off, that was their prerogative. Passengers might comment 'what are you going to do about it' but what was I going to do? Run after them?

The only thing that ever made a difference was a security or police presence, or a lot of staff at once. I once took part in a revenue sting and a bloke did an about-turn after walking towards the exit and came straight up to me offering his details. In his words "better not try and hop over, I can see you've got the coppers there".

As for making gates sturdier or taller, you'd have to do it for all of the stations (and run them as close as you can to all of the time) to prevent people getting in. I've had a passenger try and turn on me when they realised they couldn't kick a gate open (to get out) as easily as they thought they could. Staff certainly won't want to be stuck on a station with someone who's going to do whatever it take to escape.

 

[david1212]

I was followed through a wide luggage gate by two males aged about 15 recently on the Elizabeth Line. I pointed them out to station staff who couldn’t have cared less. I shared an image of them online with TfL and the BTP in the hope they would investigate and was promptly told I was the problem for sharing their image without consent. What’s the point!

Given See it. Say it. Sorted is a BTP initiative how can you then be told that you were the problem for sharing the image (presumably on a private reporting link, not open on Facebook, X or similar) without consent

 

[Kite159]

Doesn’t help that Covid has made wearing a mask more acceptable.
Do need a bumping camera, and an easy way for gate staff to push a button to flag a few seconds of CCTV of the gates.
Then look for trends and/or identifiable offenders they can target with a full prosecution and blaze of “they didn’t get away with” PR. I assume lots of the troublemakers will be easily named by local plod.
Also need more agile metal detector/dogs blocks, to make them harder to avoid (they become visible on social media very rapidly, and presumably a decent robbery gang would have someone ahead to check their planned exit)

Agreed there, saw someone at East Croydon earlier in the week like that, as soon as he came off the train out popped a dark coloured mask and up went the hoodie as he forced his way through the barriers without a care in the world. Knowing that even with CCTV recording he will be quite anonymous.

 

[yorkie]

I was followed through a wide luggage gate by two males aged about 15 recently on the Elizabeth Line. I pointed them out to station staff who couldn’t have cared less. I shared an image of them online with TfL and the BTP in the hope they would investigate and was promptly told I was the problem for sharing their image without consent. What’s the point!

Whoever said that is an idiot; there is no requirement to obtain "consent".

 

[Meole]

Crime has become socially acceptable in London and actually encouraged by some media in the form of destructive attacks upon the ULEZ traffic enforcement cameras, and cheating London transport fares by bumping is seen by many as a fair response to the London mayor.

 

[Mojo]

In my experience, people fare evade by pushing the wide gates open. I haven’t seen it on a normal gate, these are quite resistant to pushing apart. Is there not a way that these could be replaced with something more sturdy? They’re so flimsy at the moment and so easy to push through.

Someone else asked this question just a few posts before yours and someone gave an answer in post #24.

 

[Somewhere]

Gateline staff aren't there to protect revenue; they're there to assist the disabled and for safety reasons should someone get trapped

 

[greyman42]

There has been a marked increase in theft- pickpocketing mainly-which has driven the high-level increase. This type of crime has been on the increase for years- it’s amazing what thirteen years of austerity does.

So called austerity has nothing to do with this sort of criminality.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So called austerity has nothing to do with this sort of criminality.

No, but it has everything to do with the lack of staff and police officers on stations which enables the behaviour…

 

[The Ham]

I don’t think there has been. The tube is as safe as it’s ever been. The halfwit Tory Mayor candidate proved that the other week, losing her purse and Oyster card and having it delivered back to her house by a stranger. Not the point she was hoping to make, I’m sure.

People complaining now about safety on the tube clearly don’t remember what it was like in the late 80s, especially on the southern half of the Northern Line.

Look up the second LBC interview with them after the event, they were still strongly implying that it could have been a pick pocket.

I’m afraid the evidence doesn’t bear this out. Even TFL have now started mandating that *all* passenger-facing staff wear bodycams, which is partly down to a significant increase in workplace violence faced by staff.

As others have pointed out, things (statics) are still better than they were in the 80's, part of the user of body cams is that it's technology which is now cheap enough to use by a lot of people.

Even my local supermarket (not in an urban area, so a fairly low level area of crime) has them available (not sure I've seen them being written though), as they can't be a useful deterrent from things going badly for the staff.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

There's an increase in fare evasion across the whole rail network at the moment. There are several reasons for this, in no particular order:

Cost of living crisis
Increase in general crime rate
Criminal justice system under pressure
Lack of police response
General detirioration in behaviour (particularly post covid)
Cuts in staffing

This isn't exclusive to the rail industry. For example, retailer stock loss has increased at an alarming rate in recent years for similar reasons.

Yes, every time I go into my local Sainsbury's, I notice there's a dodgy bloke hanging around. Give him a wide berth and he's immediately piling drinks bottles into his bag

 

[renegademaster]

Crime has become socially acceptable in London and actually encouraged by some media in the form of destructive attacks upon the ULEZ traffic enforcement cameras, and cheating London transport fares by bumping is seen by many as a fair response to the London mayor.

I highly doubt its the White van men the ones pushing through tube barriers
They are probably just driving round Bromley in their old van grumbling while paying the fee, I doubt they have even taken the tube much. Not everything has to be about your pet culture war issue.

 

[Starmill]

So called austerity has nothing to do with this sort of criminality.

It means even repeat offenders can escape prosecution because they aren't a priority for investigation or charging by the Police and Crown, who simply don't have the resources. Nobody in their right mind would be suggesting diverting BTP resources away from sexual assaults / other violent offences / drug trafficking to focus on pickpocketing and ticketless travel. Or are you suggesting that they aren't under-resourced?

 

[jon0844]

I highly doubt its the White van men the ones pushing through tube barriers
They are probably just driving round Bromley in their old van grumbling while paying the fee, I doubt they have even taken the tube much. Not everything has to be about your pet culture war issue.

I've seen people with a trolley 'bag' of Makita tools push through a wide gate, with a company name on his clothing.. kids in school uniform, and other staff with identifiable company names/logos (e.g. Ocado) so I think these days ANYONE will push through if they feel they shouldn't have to pay, or can't pay. Now I don't know their circumstances, but I'd assume a builder/plumber/electrician with tools is going to do a job and is therefore earning money - so if they're not paying it seems like a deliberate action, not poverty.

Not everyone cares to hide their identity or wear a mask, and must be very confident that nobody can or will do anything. I'm sure we've all seen that if someone is unlucky enough to be stopped and can't easily leave, they'll just demand to pay their fare there and then as if that's perfectly fine.

With regards to Cubic gates, I believe they open easier if people push out than people push in, but surely these are based on very very old designs now and people can even crawl underneath a wide gate. With all gates having emergency plungers, I do wonder why they can't be made to open less easily from being pushed - and better sensors put in so that if someone has already begun to pass through they won't close with as much force (for anyone trapped).

It would likely be expensive, but in other countries they have gates you cannot push through or go over/under. Yes, people will still double up, but we do seem to actively invite people to just push through - and there are enough TikTok videos out there telling people they can just push through and saying that staff won't do anything. It's effectively become a 'hack' or 'trick' to save money, and as time goes on more and more people will learn that it works and do it - and then what? Nobody will ever pay because you'd feel a total mug being the one person left doing so.

 

[renegademaster]

Not everyone cares to hide their identity or wear a mask, and must be very confident that nobody can or will do anything

Because the police has become increasingly non-functional. Their isn't really consequences for petty crime anymore

 

[takno]

I highly doubt its the White van men the ones pushing through tube barriers
They are probably just driving round Bromley in their old van grumbling while paying the fee, I doubt they have even taken the tube much. Not everything has to be about your pet culture war issue.

The point is more that they are part of the same fall in respect for the wider community, and an attitude that you should just do what you like the whole time. It may not be the same people, but it's the same mindset, and the same cost to the community.

 

[greyman42]

It means even repeat offenders can escape prosecution because they aren't a priority for investigation or charging by the Police and Crown, who simply don't have the resources. Nobody in their right mind would be suggesting diverting BTP resources away from sexual assaults / other violent offences / drug trafficking to focus on pickpocketing and ticketless travel. Or are you suggesting that they aren't under-resourced?

All i was suggesting is that these criminal types would still be carrying out their criminality regardless of the state of the economy or which political party was in power.

 

[Somewhere]

Not everyone cares to hide their identity or wear a mask, and must be very confident that nobody can or will do anything. I'm sure we've all seen that if someone is unlucky enough to be stopped and can't easily leave, they'll just demand to pay their fare there and then as if that's perfectly fine.

A lot of people force gates because they have a valid ticket, but it doesn't work the gates, or they just cannot be bothered to wait for a disinterested member of staff to turn up and explain it to them..
I've had to lean over unstaffed gates before that are all set for exit-only to let myself into a station. Its mostly the railway's fault

 

[vinnym70]

Interesting to see the views here. My mainly used gateline is Canary Wharf and I've noticed the issue for many years now (before Covid too) but it seems worse now.
Canary Wharf is a wide gateline and the new side gates to the south of the station are generally well away from staff attention.
I'd like to think that technology being what it is now, there are ways and means to detect when this happens and capture some evidence for future use.
Like most people my travel happens at a reasonably set time - I've regularly noticed a 'couple' who seem to have one ticket and expect for both of them to squeeze through with little or no trouble - I'd really hope that provided a reasonable evidence trail because it does trigger the gates to alarm.

 

[jon0844]

A lot of people force gates because they have a valid ticket, but it doesn't work the gates, or they just cannot be bothered to wait for a disinterested member of staff to turn up and explain it to them..
I've had to lean over unstaffed gates before that are all set for exit-only to let myself into a station. Its mostly the railway's fault

What utter tosh. Perhaps a few people but certainly not the majority. Not even close.

 

[Hadders]

A lot of people force gates because they have a valid ticket, but it doesn't work the gates, or they just cannot be bothered to wait for a disinterested member of staff to turn up and explain it to them..
I've had to lean over unstaffed gates before that are all set for exit-only to let myself into a station. Its mostly the railway's fault

There are a handful of issues with tickets not working the gates, or staff not appearing to be around to deal with an issue but to suggest this is the reason why peiple are pushing through barriers is totally wrong.

 

[boiledbeans2]

As for people leaving a station, if they're going to jump over and run off, that was their prerogative. Passengers might comment 'what are you going to do about it' but what was I going to do? Run after them?

This was the most extreme example of "jumping over" I've seen:

At West Brompton station, the LU entrance has barriers, while the NR entrance is unbarriered. The two parts of the station are connected inside. One day, for some reason, the NR entrance was closed, therefore forcing everyone to use the LU barriered entrance.

As there was no more "free exit", I saw one guy climb over the emergency exit gate of the station. The link below is an image of the gate from Google Street View. I remember the guy managed to climb to the top of the metal gate from within the station, somehow sit on top of the brick wall momentarily, then jump down onto the pavement outside the station, successfully completing his free ride.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Adrian1980uk]

This is all about police priority, the pressure on the police is to go after online crime, racial crime, sex offences and traffic offences (for some reason). Online crime particularly is probably favoured by officers as can be done from the comfort of their desk, who can blame them.
Burglary and non payment of fares is the lowest priority.

 

[Hadders]

This is all about police priority, the pressure on the police is to go after online crime, racial crime, sex offences and traffic offences (for some reason). Online crime particularly is probably favoured by officers as can be done from the comfort of their desk, who can blame them.
Burglary and non payment of fares is the lowest priority.

To be fair, online crime is absolutely rife. It needs very specialist skills to deal with and it’s not something I’d expect a normal police officer to be involved in (in the same way that firearms are dealt with by specialist officers).

Online crime is in massive growth, it needs more resources to deal with and isn’t a case of officers choosing to investigate it because it’s ‘easy’ and can be done from their desks.