• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Caledonian Sleeper discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Scotrail84

Established Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
2,372

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Where are you getting your info from mate?

The Coach F 'failure' was from a passenger's tweet to CS. Admittedly I made an assumption it was referring to 1S25 as it was someone London-based talking about starting their holiday.

As for 92033 mishbehaving - I don't think it was/is as it got underway fine in the end - but at the time I was typing it was still sat in Euston 35 min after booked departure so was wondering if it was having a 'moment' again.
 

Scotrail84

Established Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
2,372
The Coach F 'failure' was from a passenger's tweet to CS. Admittedly I made an assumption it was referring to 1S25 as it was someone London-based talking about starting their holiday.

As for 92033 mishbehaving - I don't think it was/is as it got underway fine in the end - but at the time I was typing it was still sat in Euston 35 min after booked departure so was wondering if it was having a 'moment' again.


033 shut down at Euston resulting in no power but was rebooted and has held power since the reboot.

Coach F has no power and is running on batteries so can't be used for various reasons. ETH is transferring through the coach to the rest of the train so I suspect it's an MA issue that will hopefully be resolved at Inverness over the weekend.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
033 shut down at Euston resulting in no power but was rebooted and has held power since the reboot.

"Computer says no" no doubt on 033... It seems to be one of the more temperamental of the ones that's had the mods. Wouldn't be surprised if it pays another visit to Loughborough at some point.

All that said, it's arrived at Warrington 2 Early.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Those traction reliability stats all (ok some…) of you have been eagerly awaiting… apologies the post is a bit long, but a fair bit of info to cover.

For 100% accurate answers to these questions, you’d probably need to be whoever manages the sleeper loco for GBRf and they’re not going to share on here. This is from my own observations/records taken from publically available sources, but I’m confident it’s a fair reflection. Happy for anyone to add further information.

Goes without saying, but info about what actually ran is obviously more available than issues at depots “behind closed doors” – but to be honest if a working loco from the overall fleet appears from the depot on time I don’t think it really matters – I’m sure there are switches of allocated loco/stock many times every day across the rail industry for a myriad of reasons.

All info covers the last 12 calendar weeks (excluding tonight).

Split of traction

The four “main” runs (1M11, 1M16, 1S25, 1S26) have been:

79% Class 92
20% Class 90
1% Class 86/87

If the Lowlander Edinburgh portions are added in as a fifth run, the split changes a bit as these have been more heavily worked by the 90s:

72% Class 92
23% Class 90
4% Diesel (Colas Class 47s / Class 73s)
1% Class 86/87

Delays/cancellations attributable to Traction

In terms of ANY delay due to traction, I don’t have this sort of info. However, I’m fairly certain that the list below covers all significant delays (including those >1 hour). I cannot recall any other sizeable delays due to traction in the last 12 weeks. Where there’s been relatively small delays (say 10-30 mins) it’s usually due to other operational/network issues.

Failures resulting in significant delay/cancellation:

Class 92s (3/228 workings = 1%):

1) 92038 on northbound Lowlander on 8 May – replaced by 87002 and IIRC arrived c.45 mins late at Glasgow
2) 92044 on southbound Highlander on Sunday night (11 Jun) – 1M16 cancelled from EDB
3) 92033 on northbound Highlander on Wed night (14 Jun) – replaced by 90046 – 85 Late at EBD / 98 Late at Inverness

Class 90s (1/81 workings = 1%):

1) 90046 on the southbound Highlander last night, replaced by 92010 – 97 Late arriving at Euston.

Class 87 (1/1 booked working):

1) 87002 failed prior to departure on the “special” on Mon 5th June – replaced by Class 90

Other known failures not significantly impacting services:

I’m aware of a few other failures prior to departure/at depots which had no impact on the services involved – as above, I’m sure there’s others that have happened within the depots. But I also think these are the sort of things that happen to all fleets on a pretty regular basis and dealt with as a matter of course.

Class 92s

- 92023 due on 1M11 failed on night of 27 Mar, but a loco reshuffle involving 92010 taken from 1M16 and 86401 taking over 1M16 meant services ran to time.
- Reports of a Class 92 failing at Wembley on 11 Apr and being replaced by a 90 – didn’t impact service.
- 92010 was due to work the northbound Highlander on 2 May but was pulled well before departure and replaced with 90049. Again, no impact on service.

Class 90s
- 90047 failed at Polmadie on 22 May, stock was turned and 86401 on the other end originally for the ECS duties worked the service South instead. No impact on departure time.

Couple of overall observations (based on last 12 weeks)…
- The level of 92 failures causing significant delay/cancellation is low (1%) and there’s only been one outright cancellation.
- The level of 90 failures causing significant delays etc. is proportionately the same taking into account the split of workings. It is also low.
- Three of the four "significant impact" failures (2x 92s; 1x 90) have occurred in the last week – hopefully just “one of those weeks”; but can give the impression of there being traction/Class 92 issues, yet this longer term view suggests otherwise.
- Although the info is more limited, there’s been a handful of times locos have been failed (well) before departure (and possibly some of these have been erring on the side of caution). But again, they appear to be occurring about once/twice a month and are proportionately split across 92s/90s. They do not appear to be indicative of widespread/above average issues with the 92s.

So, on the basis of the above from the last 12 weeks, the 92s and 90s have both been very reliable in the main (particularly considering they’re c.25 year old locos) and would also appear to be about as reliable as each other.
 
Last edited:

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
I don't have anything like the detailed info on the 73/9s, 67s etc. but from what I recall the picture isn't dissimilar to the Electrics; i.e. significant failures of 73s these days are very low, but due to the previous issues and profile of the sleeper when they do happen they get a lot of attention.

There's perhaps slightly more challenges with the 73s as three of the six are currently in Loughborough, but when they're out working they generally fare well. I cannot think of anymore than half a dozen 73 failures over the past few months that have been traction related and resulted in cancellation or major delays.

I can recall one major 67 failure (67010 soon after the recent hire-in; resulted in the Inverness portion (possibly the whole Highlander) being cancelled).

And one of the Colas 47s also failed on the Aberdeen - ran out of oil IIRC - resulted in the service being cancelled.

So, again, considering the proportions of 'legs' worked, the reliability of the 73/9s is probably not a great deal worse/different than the other traction being used.

The 67's reliability stats will also be helped by the fact that when 67010 went bang, the replacement DB provided (67013) was a particularly reliable Class 67 specimen.
(Arguably, the reliability comparison with the hired-in 67s is somewhat of a moot point given the 67 is only there in the first place because VTEC bashed up 73969 in Craigentinny...)
 
Last edited:

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
You can't do any meaningful reliability analysis on 72 days of 4 trains reach split into various locos.

I'd set the bar at a minimum of one year.
 

GW43125

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2014
Messages
2,051
87002 was on the ex-lowlander empties out of Euston this morning.

Passed 1M16 in the Camden area approx. 07:45
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
92028 has taken 90016 down to Willesden from Crewe this morning (presumably replacement for failed 90046/90042).

028 headed back with a Freightliner 90 in tow too - guessing this will be 90042 after its mishap at Wembley yesterday (as opposed to 92028 just taking 90016 for a scenic tour of the southern WCML...) ;)
 
Last edited:

GW43125

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2014
Messages
2,051
92018 currently with half a sleeper rake in the shed at polmadie. Single sleeper carriage on its own outside the shed. Observations as of 15:45
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,897
Location
Scotland
92018 currently with half a sleeper rake in the shed at polmadie. Single sleeper carriage on its own outside the shed. Observations as of 15:45
Not unusual on a Saturday. The other half was probably hidden away in the shed getting some TLC.
 

GW43125

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2014
Messages
2,051
92028 has taken 90016 down to Willesden from Crewe this morning (presumably replacement for failed 90046/90042).

028 headed back with a Freightliner 90 in tow too - guessing this will be 90042 after its mishap at Wembley yesterday (as opposed to 92028 just taking 90016 for a scenic tour of the southern WCML...) ;)

Just passed Crewe, 92028 is attached to another Cally Sleeper 92, no 90 in sight.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Just passed Crewe, 92028 is attached to another Cally Sleeper 92, no 90 in sight.

In the Holding Sidings by all the old carriages just South of the station, yeah?

That's 92023 it'll be with. They've been on test runs together last week having both come out of Loughborough last Friday.

The 90s are based at Freightliner's depot at Basford Hall. So 92028 will have left that siding (and 023) this morning, picked up 90016 from Basford Hall, taken it to Willesden, picked up 90042 and dropped that off at Basford Hall before reuniting with 92023.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Why is the 86 at Barrow Hill/ Loughborough can't remember? I also can remember whether it is 101 or 401.

86101 is at Barrow Hill for repairs, 401 is either at crewe waiting to go back to Polmadie or in polmadie.

86101 is under-going ETS repairs at Barrow Hill

86401 is back at Polmadie on Glasgow Central ECS duties. It went from Crewe to Polmadie on Tuesday [13th] (having moved to Crewe the Saturday before). Went straight onto the ECS move that evening.

Here are a couple of snaps of it on the Crewe-Carlisle leg of its journey getting a lift from 92028 and 92023... (Completed the journey from Carlisle light engine.)

https://flic.kr/p/VKB1PZ
https://flic.kr/p/VKB1TX
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,649
For anyone interested, some bits of film from my recent trip up to Fort William and back from Inverness. Includes reversal in Wembley yard (in both directions) on account of the ECML diversions.

https://youtu.be/HmlHbynqjPI
 

Lrd

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2010
Messages
3,018
Anyone know what's on the Lowlander down today? I'm on it to Edinburgh and can't be bothered to walk down to the front...
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Anyone know what's on the Lowlander down today? I'm on it to Edinburgh and can't be bothered to walk down to the front...

92038 is hauling 1S26 tonight.

Looks like 92014 is on the Edinburgh portion tonight so that's probably what's taking you from Carstairs (unless they switch it with 92018 that's at Waverley and most likely on the Up Highlander later).
 

Lrd

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2010
Messages
3,018
92038 is hauling 1S26 tonight.

Looks like 92014 is on the Edinburgh portion tonight so that's probably what's taking you from Carstairs (unless they switch it with 92018 that's at Waverley and most likely on the Up Highlander later).
Many thanks for that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top