Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[TimboM]

I was quite surprised they didn't cancel them all outright earlier in the day given the severe weather warnings that were issued.

To be fair to Caley Sleeper, they usually give it their best shot whatever the weather. Before the Pendo hit the tree near Lockerbie at c.8pm I think things were looking reasonably achievable. Also, I wonder where the compensation liabilities lie - if Serco cancel pre-emptively, they'd probably take the hit. Whereas they attempt to run the services and the infrastructure is blocked then I'm pretty sure Network Rail will be picking up the tab.

 

[TimboM]

Surprised they aren't allowing use of VT from Euston to Glasgow?

Maybe the logic was that VTWC may still have had issues and/or displaced passengers/stock/crew of their own to contend with following the issues last night, so better to have the extra train loads of passengers on VTEC.

 

[BRX]

My friend was on the southbound from Aberdeen. Decamped at Waverley. Unfortunately the 0540 VTEC was heavily delayed so they didn't get to London until nearly midday.

Weds night my sister is coming down from Inverness. Trying the sleeper on my recommendation that she gives it a go rather than the plane or day train. Hopefully it goes more smoothly than last night or I will be in trouble!

 

[ainsworth74]

Allegedly on safety grounds, though I find it difficult to believe this was insurmountable and as such suspect that they were looking for an excuse as they'd abstract berth revenue.

I dunno I can believe that trying to introduce a new style of seating would require approvals and possibly testing which would a) cost money and b) potentially delay the delivery of their new product. So I can see why, in the end, they gave up on the idea and just went with a blanket 'elf 'n safety excuse.

It is however very disappointing in whatever the truth of the matter and I do wonder if it's going to kill of whatever remaining business use the sleeper attracts. It seems to be that they could have been fairly ideally priced and pitched at the business traveller. Unlike the new berths which are quite possibly going to be very very expensive.

 

[TimboM]

I dunno I can believe that trying to introduce a new style of seating would require approvals and possibly testing which would a) cost money and b) potentially delay the delivery of their new product. So I can see why, in the end, they gave up on the idea and just went with a blanket 'elf 'n safety excuse.

I'm pretty sure this was the case - not insurmountable health and safety aspects full stop, but insurmountable health and safety aspects in the time/cost available to the project. It would've been ground-breaking so no doubt will have required lots of paperwork, approvals, testing, more testing, crash testing etc... and with no guarantee it would be signed-off, which could then leave you with brand-new multi-million coaches needed a refit before they could be used.

Given the delivery of the coaches is quite evidently behind schedule, it would appear they made the right call in weighing up the risks (to the project delivery) of continuing with the 'airline pods' - as if they were still involved the whole thing could be taking even longer.

 

[TimboM]

Most of us don't like the idea of sharing a cabin with a random person, but there should be a mechanism for online bookings to state that you know the other travellers or give your willing consent to share with someone else who has also willingly consented to sharing with a stranger at the time of booking.

This would then mean that those who want solo accommodation - which is I believe many of us - get it, but those who are prepared to share can also still travel without having to pay fortunes or ride in the seats.

I'm fairly sure the "no-sharing" policy will be to maximise revenues/berth occupancy and not due to any broader concerns about the well-being of passengers who may be perfectly happy with sharing.

However, you can still book together and share a berth AFAIK - so perhaps the way forward when the time come is that forums such as this, or other websites/social media, can be used for people to find a willing travel companion who'll share a berth and hence the cost (a bit like car-sharing websites, or Twitter accounts for buying/swapping football tickets). If people could 'match up' beforehand then presumably they could then do a joint booking for one berth? I know there's a reduced chance of this being successful compared to just booking a berth and saying you're prepared to share, but my point really is Serco aren't going to change their policy on this (I don't think) so it'll be a case of thinking of ways of working within that policy, rather than trying to fight it and expect it to be changed.

 

[StephenHunter]

If you and the stranger end up in an unpleasant situation, there would be the issues of liability...

 

[TimboM]

If you and the stranger end up in an unpleasant situation, there would be the issues of liability...

If you and a mate you'd known for 10 years shared a berth and ended up in an "unpleasant situation" (it can happen) would there be any liability? From a legal point of view I don't think this would be any different from an "unpleasant situation" with someone you'd arranged to share a berth with a week or so beforehand online. If anything illegal did happen between whoever on the train, it would be dealt with by the law of the land (which I believe is Scottish Law where the Sleepers are concerned) - not sure there would also be recourse to Serco/Caley Sleeper?

e.g. when that person set fire to the Sleeper a few months back, they were arrested and dealt with accordingly - I don't think anyone then attempted to sue CS for "allowing" them to set fire to the train?

 

[GW43125]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, do we know the current expected dates for the arrival of the new stock in service? I'm going next July but wonder if this will still be too late...

 

[TimboM]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, do we know the current expected dates for the arrival of the new stock in service? I'm going next July but wonder if this will still be too late...

Short answer is they haven't said yet - probably because they don't know exactly when it'll be - we're still to get a single new coach on UK soil - and 75 of them are needed! I'm pretty sure they've not even built 75 body-shells yet...

I did notice on CS Twitter that they were now talking about "Autumn 2018" for the new stock being fully in-service across all trains, whereas the original plan was April 2018.

I'd say at the current time that if you're travelling in July next year you're in the 50:50 camp as to whether you get new stock or not, depending on how things go. I also understand that they'll be rolled out on the Lowlanders first, so if you're booked on that odds may be better.

 

[GW43125]

Short answer is they haven't said yet - probably because they don't know exactly when it'll be - we're still to get a single new coach on UK soil - and 75 of them are needed! I'm pretty sure they've not even built 75 body-shells yet...

I did notice on CS Twitter that they were now talking about "Autumn 2018" for the new stock being fully in-service across all trains, whereas the original plan was April 2018.

I'd say at the current time that if you're travelling in July next year you're in the 50:50 camp as to whether you get new stock or not, depending on how things go. I also understand that they'll be rolled out on the Lowlanders first, so if you're booked on that odds may be better.

I'm going to sound like a right crank, but it'd be the highlander, I just want to get a ride on the old stock before it goes (albeit in the seats). I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[TimboM]

I'm going to sound like a right crank, but it'd be the highlander, I just want to get a ride on the old stock before it goes (albeit in the seats). I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Ah, you're wanting to get on the OLD stock... I'd say on the Highlander in July you'll have a pretty decent chance of having one last go on the old stock!

I'm also sure they'll be much fanfare - and also interest/updates on here - leading up to the new stock being introduced, so I doubt it will sneak up on you by surprise - should mean if you're able to you can make a last minute dash on the old stock if it's looks like it's end is nigh?!

 

[Kite159]

Has there been any interior shots of what the seated coaches will be looking like on the new stock yet?

 

[TimboM]

Has there been any interior shots of what the seated coaches will be looking like on the new stock yet?

If you look on the Mk5 Sleeper Stock (or something like that) thread in the Traction forum there's some photos our man in Velim took through the windows of the test rake...

 

[GW43125]

Ah, you're wanting to get on the OLD stock... I'd say on the Highlander in July you'll have a pretty decent chance of having one last go on the old stock!

I'm also sure they'll be much fanfare - and also interest/updates on here - leading up to the new stock being introduced, so I doubt it will sneak up on you by surprise - should mean if you're able to you can make a last minute dash on the old stock if it's looks like it's end is nigh?!

Doubt I'd just be able to do a dash like that, I'm a student! Thanks for your help though, not done the sleeper before and hoping I'm not going to be too late.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If you look on the Mk5 Sleeper Stock (or something like that) thread in the Traction forum there's some photos our man in Velim took through the windows of the test rake...

I heard these proposals for the interior had been cancelled though...

 

[TimboM]

I heard these proposals for the interior had been cancelled though...

?? If you find the photos on the other rake they're of the REAL (seated) coaches. The actual ones - not mock-ups or proposals. They don't have the pods in referred to above as they were shelved from the plans a long time ago.

 

[Clansman]

I heard these proposals for the interior had been cancelled though...

Eh?

The only major feature to be shelved are the pod beds. Everything else is pretty much the same. Please see the Mk5 thread for all things Mk5 and everything you want to know about them.

 

[BRX]

I'm going to sound like a right crank, but it'd be the highlander, I just want to get a ride on the old stock before it goes (albeit in the seats). I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

When I last went up to the Highlands, a few months ago I thought it might be my final (summertime at least) trip on the old stock - however I am now feeling fairly confident that I'll get another go at it next summer!

I also have a feeling I might well largely stop using the sleeper once the new stuff comes in, as it will offer me a less enjoyable journey at what looks likely to be a significantly higher price.

 

[GW43125]

When I last went up to the Highlands, a few months ago I thought it might be my final (summertime at least) trip on the old stock - however I am now feeling fairly confident that I'll get another go at it next summer!

I also have a feeling I might well largely stop using the sleeper once the new stuff comes in, as it will offer me a less enjoyable journey at what looks likely to be a significantly higher price.

I'm a student so can't really shell out for beds but if I'm on a budget the seats are actually quite reasonable. $33 (sorry my pound symbol isn't working!) for a night in the seats on a railcard isn't half bad.

 

[TimboM]

5C11 (Lowlander Edinburgh portion ECS from Polmadie) appears to have only made it as far as Carstairs (if that) ...so 1C11 (Edinburgh to Carstairs) is effectively cancelled and passengers are now being taxi'd from EDB to join 1M11 at Carstairs.

CS Twitter states "due to issues with empty stock from depot"

 

[Track Basher]

I found this out too. Went to book a trip for three of us in July and was presented with either £99 for the three of us in the seats or almost £300 for solo berths!

Book two then book one. You will find it will allow a share for the pair.

 

[GW43125]

Book two then book one. You will find it will allow a share for the pair.

It's fine. We were planning to do the seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Book two then book one. You will find it will allow a share for the pair.

Is their booking engine really too stupid to allow 3 to be booked as a twin and a single? That's ridiculous.

 

[ChathillMan]

Ah, you're wanting to get on the OLD stock... I'd say on the Highlander in July you'll have a pretty decent chance of having one last go on the old stock!

I'm also sure they'll be much fanfare - and also interest/updates on here - leading up to the new stock being introduced, so I doubt it will sneak up on you by surprise - should mean if you're able to you can make a last minute dash on the old stock if it's looks like it's end is nigh?!

i am doing Fort Bill in March next year. I emailed CS about a ticketing question and they adviaed me i would be on a new train.

 

[TimboM]

i am doing Fort Bill in March next year. I emailed CS about a ticketing question and they adviaed me i would be on a new train.

In March 2018...!? Even under the original plan (which they're behind) the stock wasn't due to be fully rolled-out until April...
I guess it could be a new train if things go swimmingly well between now and then, but I'd be very surprised - and also surprised they advised you it'd be a new train, as at this stage I doubt they or anyone else could say with any certainty when the stock will be in use on any particular train - the first rake still hasn't completed testing nor have any coaches reached the UK yet - and the vast majority of the 75 coaches are still at various stages of construction in Spain.

 

[ChathillMan]

In March 2018...!? Even under the original plan (which they're behind) the stock wasn't due to be fully rolled-out until April...
I guess it could be a new train if things go swimmingly well between now and then, but I'd be very surprised - and also surprised they advised you it'd be a new train, as at this stage I doubt they or anyone else could say with any certainty when the stock will be in use on any particular train - the first rake still hasn't completed testing nor have any coaches reached the UK yet - and the vast majority of the 75 coaches are still at various stages of construction in Spain.

Yep, this is what they sent me...

"You are booked on to our new trains and we will no longer be doing shared occupancy rooms, so you will definitely be in a room by yourself"

I only have a handful of months to find out I suppose....

 

[TimboM]

Yep, this is what they sent me...

"You are booked on to our new trains and we will no longer be doing shared occupancy rooms, so you will definitely be in a room by yourself"

I only have a handful of months to find out I suppose....

Reading between the lines, they're applying the "no shared berths" rule from a certain point in time whether it's the new stock or not (and using the new stock as the rationale, or dare I say excuse!)

 

[ChathillMan]

I wasnt expecting a new train to be honest. I just fancied a break somehere ive never been. i just hope get my solo berth even if its current stock. Just thought I would share what I had been sent

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reading between the lines, they're applying the "no shared berths" rule from a certain point in time whether it's the new stock or not (and using the new stock as the rationale, or dare I say excuse!)

It's a relaunched service, not just new stock. TBH I don't blame them, when did you last hear of a shared hotel room? (They aren't marketing as a hostel).