Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[ScottDarg]

90045 on 1M11 tonight

 

[marks87]

I understand the Glasgow Queen Street portions will be Load 7 and ACLG hauled (86/87) due to platform length.

Blimey, I don’t think anyone could honestly say they expected to ever see an 86/87 at Queen Street!

 

[Scotrail84]

What work is taking place on the WCML/Glasgow Central area which is forcing the diversion into Queen Street High Level via the ECML anyhow?

Might be my final farewell to the old stock (or "hello" to the new stock) that Sunday night from Euston to Glasgow

No chance.

 

[Scotrail84]

92 018 on 1S26

 

[TimboM]

92 018 on 1S26

Rest of the allocations as far as I'm aware:

92 033 on 1S25
90 045 on 1M11 (as per @ScottDarg above)
92 010 on 1M16
90 016 on Carstairs

87002 (Polmadie/Glasgow) and 86101 (Wembley/Euston) the usual ECS locos.

92 043 the "spare" at Polmadie - possibly going to work the empty china clays south...?

 

[Scotrail84]

Rest of the allocations as far as I'm aware:

92 033 on 1S25
90 045 on 1M11 (as per @ScottDarg above)
92 010 on 1M16
90 016 on Carstairs

87002 (Polmadie/Glasgow) and 86101 (Wembley/Euston) the usual ECS locos.

92 043 the "spare" at Polmadie - possibly going to work the empty china clays south...?

Is it not 045 that's lying off spare at Polmadie?

 

[ScottDarg]

Is it not 045 that's lying off spare at Polmadie?

Nope, definitely on 1M11, at least it was when 5M11 came in. I'd have grabbed a pic if I didn't already have one of it on M11.

 

[Scotrail84]

Nope, definitely on 1M11, at least it was when 5M11 came in. I'd have grabbed a pic if I didn't already have one of it on M11.

Ach fair enough. lots of diversions for 2018. Too manny to post.

 

[TimboM]

Is it not 045 that's lying off spare at Polmadie?

Nope, definitely on 1M11, at least it was when 5M11 came in. I'd have grabbed a pic if I didn't already have one of it on M11.

90045 was the Polmadie spare last night - all taking it in turns for a night off!

Might be 2+2 = 5, but there's paths in tomorrow to get a Class 66 from Millerhill to Irvine Caledonian Paper via the stock move to/from Kilmarnock works. (There's a separate path for 47749 to go to Mossend, presumably for some fuel/oil/repairs after all its running about this last week.)
That tallies with the paths in for the return of the empty china clays tomorrow night from Irvine via Carlisle New Yard to Wembley/Dollands Moor, so 92043 may be ear-marked for heading to Carlisle to take those back (and thus ultimately getting the "spare" loco back south where it usually is). That said, the 66 may take it all the way to Wembley and 043 not be involved - although either way 043 will need to head south soon for exam.

With the electric loco merry-go-round this last week, though, this is probably all completely wrong...!

 

[Qwerty133]

I understand the Glasgow Queen Street portions will be Load 7 and ACLG hauled (86/87) due to platform length.

How much shorter is a 86/87 to a 92 or 90?

 

[TimboM]

How much shorter is a 86/87 to a 92 or 90?

Lengths (per Wiki - usual health warning applies!)

Class 92: 21.36m
Class 90: 18.75m
Class 86/87: 17.83m

I suspect they'll be hoping the Class 90 hire-ins will have finished by then, either way the 92s are a good 3m longer than the other locos.

 

[MG11]

What percentage of services have Revenue Protection Officers?

 

[Lrd]

What percentage of services have Revenue Protection Officers?

On the sleeper? Your ticket is checked by the guard/attendant on boarding so no need for them.

 

[Scotrail84]

What percentage of services have Revenue Protection Officers?

Every sleeper has a guard who checks the tickets in the seated portions and the sleeper hosts check the tickets in the berth coaches.

 

[JonathanH]

Every sleeper has a guard who checks the tickets in the seated portions and the sleeper hosts check the tickets in the berth coaches.

Indeed, the guards have started to more commonly check tickets before boarding rather than once the services are underway. The sleeper hosts always used to do this.

 

[Scotrail84]

Indeed, the guards have started to more commonly check tickets before boarding rather than once the services are underway. The sleeper hosts always used to do this.

Where has this been happening about do you know?

 

[Lrd]

Where has this been happening about do you know?

I'm sure it was the guard who checked my ticket at the bottom of the ramp at Euston.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm sure it was the guard who checked my ticket at the bottom of the ramp at Euston.

Ah right. makes sense to prevent fraudulent and ticketless travel (in the seats anyway). Its harder to get people off the train, especially after departure than it is to stop them boarding without a ticket or any available means for payment. Stowaways are not uncommon, so this practise helps prevent this.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Stowaways are not uncommon, so this practice helps prevent this.

Do these stowaways ( = fare dodgers ) ever try to make use of vacant cabins or do they confine themselves to the seated section?

 

[ScottDarg]

Last night:

ELECTRICS

• 90016 - 1C11/1B26
• 90045 - 5S95/1S26
• 92044 - 1S25 (to Edinburgh)
• 92033 - 1M16 (from Edinburgh)
• 92018 - 1M11

DIESELS

• 67012 - 1M16/1S25 (from/to Inverness)
• 73967 - 1B01/1Y11
• 73966 - 1B16/1A25

92010 & 014 at Willesden (or in London at least).

92043 at Polmadie.

 

[Scotrail84]

Do these stowaways ( = fare dodgers ) ever try to make use of vacant cabins or do they confine themselves to the seated section?

Cabins that have not be sold are kept locked (at least they should be) but it is not unknown for a stowaway to find their way into one. The seats or toilets are their usual preference

On the subject of locked cabins, did you know (non sleeper) rail staff are forbidden to carry their own train keys, mainly T keys or BR1 keys if travelling on the sleeper, this is for security reasons. they are supposed to surrender them to the guard or hosts and get them back in the morning or whatever station they are alighting at.

From February 2018 stranger sharing is being discontinued for good, also only ten berths per coach will be used as well with the remaining 2 (or 3 if the coach is a SLE) locked out of use. This is because the new trains will only have 10 berths per coach and it is to get the staff used to the new working practices in advance of the new sets coming in.

Prices will be going up as well, Ive heard a few quoted but can't say for definite if its true.

(disclaimer - the above info is subject to change or alteration at short notice)

 

[Scotrail84]

I believe serco have just singed a deal for 4 more 92's. I do not have the numbers of said locos though.

 

[ScottDarg]

I believe serco have just singed a deal for 4 more 92's. I do not have the numbers of said locos though.

New acquisitions or the fitting of Dellners to another 4 (006/020/028/043)?

 

[Scotrail84]

New acquisitions or the fitting of Dellners to another 4 (006/020/028/043)?

Purchased 4 more I was told.

 

[ScottDarg]

Purchased 4 more I was told.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

 

[swaldman]

From February 2018 stranger sharing is being discontinued for good, also only ten berths per coach will be used as well with the remaining 2 (or 3 if the coach is a SLE) locked out of use. This is because the new trains will only have 10 berths per coach and it is to get the staff used to the new working practices in advance of the new sets coming in.

Prices will be going up as well, Ive heard a few quoted but can't say for definite if its true.

I'm not looking forward to the pricing on the new stock, if there are less than half as many berths per coach... but I don't think they'd be stupid enough to raise the prices *before* the new stock comes in? Would they....?

 

[BRX]

I'm not looking forward to the pricing on the new stock, if there are less than half as many berths per coach... but I don't think they'd be stupid enough to raise the prices *before* the new stock comes in? Would they....?

If they think it makes any kind of sense to lock perfectly usable berths out of use, then who knows.

 

[BRX]

Are Serco allowed to basically charge what they like, or is it specified in any way in the franchise contract?

 

[TimboM]

I believe serco have just singed a deal for 4 more 92's. I do not have the numbers of said locos though.

New acquisitions or the fitting of Dellners to another 4 (006/020/028/043)?

Purchased 4 more I was told.

Reported by a very well-informed source over on another forum that it's been determined that the 5 electric diagrams a night really need seven Class 92s allocated, not the 6 currently. Consequently, 92006 (currently under "resurrection" at Brush) will be painted in CS livery and receive Dellners/other Mk5 mods. When all sorted, this will mean 006/010/014/018/023/033/038 are all fully modified + Dellners + CS livery - and will form the 'core' Sleeper 92 fleet.

In addition, 028 and 043 which have already had the reliability mods will also get the Dellners/Mk5 mods, along with 020 which is being "resurrected" along with 006 (GBRf released a photo of 020 in the works this week). These locos are all in the blue and orange "freight" livery, but with the Dellners etc. will be able to support the 'core' seven locos on Sleeper operations as and when required.

There's no news either way on 032 and 044, both of which are yet to have the reliability mods/overhauls. I'd have thought it'd be a "wait and see" with these and decided when they get round to going in for their mods etc. whether having them adapted for Mk5 working is also required.

I'd be delighted to be corrected, but I'd be a little surprised if Serco had bought 4 extra whole Class 92s themselves - firstly GBRf are the traction provider to Serco for the franchise, so presumably it'd be them not Serco buying them (and they own 16 already). Secondly, I'm not sure which ones they'd be... after the GBRf 10 (soon to be 12) the remaining stored ones both DB and GB own are in varying states of disrepair and a long way from being viable Sleeper locos. I suspect the info may more be related to Serco/GBRf modifying the additional 4 locos to work the new stock (006/020/028/043) - as above I'd be happy to be wrong!

 

[causton]

Are Serco allowed to basically charge what they like, or is it specified in any way in the franchise contract?

Only regulated fares have limits on how much they can be changed by, and as far as I'm aware (I'm sure they don't!) Caledonian Sleeper don't set any of those.

I guess the costs for an upgrade to a berth from a flexible ticket might be regulated in some way but...
...as most of the tickets sold on the Sleeper are Advances (whether changeable or not) I think Serco can charge whatever they seem fit!