Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[GW43125]

Is the chaos at Wembley tonight likely to wreck the sleeper tonight do we reckon?

 

[Scotrail84]

Reported by a very well-informed source over on another forum that it's been determined that the 5 electric diagrams a night really need seven Class 92s allocated, not the 6 currently. Consequently, 92006 (currently under "resurrection" at Brush) will be painted in CS livery and receive Dellners/other Mk5 mods. When all sorted, this will mean 006/010/014/018/023/033/038 are all fully modified + Dellners + CS livery - and will form the 'core' Sleeper 92 fleet.

In addition, 028 and 043 which have already had the reliability mods will also get the Dellners/Mk5 mods, along with 020 which is being "resurrected" along with 006 (GBRf released a photo of 020 in the works this week). These locos are all in the blue and orange "freight" livery, but with the Dellners etc. will be able to support the 'core' seven locos on Sleeper operations as and when required.

There's no news either way on 032 and 044, both of which are yet to have the reliability mods/overhauls. I'd have thought it'd be a "wait and see" with these and decided when they get round to going in for their mods etc. whether having them adapted for Mk5 working is also required.

I'd be delighted to be corrected, but I'd be a little surprised if Serco had bought 4 extra whole Class 92s themselves - firstly GBRf are the traction provider to Serco for the franchise, so presumably it'd be them not Serco buying them (and they own 16 already). Secondly, I'm not sure which ones they'd be... after the GBRf 10 (soon to be 12) the remaining stored ones both DB and GB own are in varying states of disrepair and a long way from being viable Sleeper locos. I suspect the info may more be related to Serco/GBRf modifying the additional 4 locos to work the new stock (006/020/028/043) - as above I'd be happy to be wrong!

The wording that was used was, serco have signed a deal for 4 more 92s, now I just took that mean they'd acquired 4 more locos. I'd scrap the lot. They are horrendous. 90s for south of Edinburgh and 67s north of Edinburgh.

 

[Scotrail84]

Is the chaos at Wembley tonight likely to wreck the sleeper tonight do we reckon?

What chaos?

 

[Mag_seven]

What chaos?

Its actually in the Harrow area - wires down on the Down Fast and Up fast also blocked at that location. See this thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/major-disruption-at-london-euston-1st-dec-2017.157620/

 

[LeylandLen]

From National Rail disruption , under Virgin trains .....Major disruption between London Euston and Watford Junction expected until the end of service

Led to beleive n/b OHLE fastlines damaged, trains using slow lines , cant see sleeper being delayed too much ?

 

[Scotrail84]

Its actually in the Harrow area - wires down on the Down Fast and Up fast also blocked at that location. See this thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/major-disruption-at-london-euston-1st-dec-2017.157620/

It may impact 1S25 but might be fixed for the passage of 1S26.

 

[TimboM]

The wording that was used was, serco have signed a deal for 4 more 92s, now I just took that mean they'd acquired 4 more locos. I'd scrap the lot. They are horrendous. 90s for south of Edinburgh and 67s north of Edinburgh.

It'd get very cold and dark with a 90 on the new stock...!

 

[Scotrail84]

It'd get very cold and dark with a 90 on the new stock...!

I'll bet it will still be mk2's and mk3's this time next year.

 

[Flying Snail]

I'm not looking forward to the pricing on the new stock, if there are less than half as many berths per coach... but I don't think they'd be stupid enough to raise the prices *before* the new stock comes in? Would they....?

The prices for the transition period are in the booking engine and have been for months; up to Feb 18 current fares, Mar 18 onwards new fares.

If you are currently willing to share with a stranger you will most likely have to pay more as sharing is abolished, bargain level beds are gone and won't be returning.

Obviously there will be a further increase for the luxury cabins once the full new stock service is running, maybe they will also put up the standard cabin fares again also.

The fact is serco bid for the franchise with the "hotel on wheels" concept so it is inevitable they will be ramping up fares to match the lower capacity as well as higher standard

Only regulated fares have limits on how much they can be changed by, and as far as I'm aware (I'm sure they don't!) Caledonian Sleeper don't set any of those.

I guess the costs for an upgrade to a berth from a flexible ticket might be regulated in some way but...
...as most of the tickets sold on the Sleeper are Advances (whether changeable or not) I think Serco can charge whatever they seem fit!

The supplement fares are changing, for a solo traveller they are currently £80 (shared with Std class, single with 1st class); new fare is £100 for single occupancy (ticket class irrelevant)
For 2 people travelling together the current rate is £160 (one shared cabin Std Class, 2 solo cabins 1st class); new rate is £120 for shared cabin or £200 for 2 cabins (ticket class irrelevant)

It is not that long ago that the supplements were approx £50.

 

[tsr]

It may impact 1S25 but might be fixed for the passage of 1S26.

Wonder if there will be a BTET on the Fasts. The track itself is absolutely fine.

(For the uninitiated - BTET = Block To Electric Traction)

 

[Scotrail84]

The prices for the transition period are in the booking engine and have been for months; up to Feb 18 current fares, Mar 18 onwards new fares.

If you are currently willing to share with a stranger you will most likely have to pay more as sharing is abolished, bargain level beds are gone and won't be returning.

Obviously there will be a further increase for the luxury cabins once the full new stock service is running, maybe they will also put up the standard cabin fares again also.

The fact is serco bid for the franchise with the "hotel on wheels" concept so it is inevitable they will be ramping up fares to match the lower capacity as well as higher standard



The supplement fares are changing, for a solo traveller they are currently £80 (shared with Std class, single with 1st class); new fare is £100 for single occupancy (ticket class irrelevant)
For 2 people travelling together the current rate is £160 (one shared cabin Std Class, 2 solo cabins 1st class); new rate is £120 for shared cabin or £200 for 2 cabins (ticket class irrelevant)

It is not that long ago that the supplements were approx £50.

Theres an even higher fare than that (allegedly).

 

[TimboM]

Wonder if there will be a BTET on the Fasts. The track itself is absolutely fine.

(For the uninitiated - BTET = Block To Electric Traction)

And run the freights on the Fasts? Otherwise the Fasts might as well be blocked given at least 90% of what's on the Fasts on that stretch is electric I'd reckon. I'd have thought priority would be on getting the OHLE fixed asap?

 

[tsr]

And run the freights on the Fasts? Otherwise the Fasts might as well be blocked given at least 90% of what's on the Fasts on that stretch is electric I'd reckon. I'd have thought priority would be on getting the OHLE fixed asap?

Oh, I would be very sure that is the priority. Obviously only diesel stuff could run on the Fasts but I suppose it could turn out that it would be more flexible than not having them at all.

Only speculation, anyway. I wouldn't expect any such BTET to last longer than nominal close of service, when repairs to this sort of thing usually kick off properly.

 

[Flying Snail]

Theres an even higher fare than that (allegedly).

Those are the only >Supplement< fares I have found in the booking system, if you know different then do post them up. They are quoting "classic" for the full year booking horizon so not giving new stock fares, I imagine they will retroactively apply them for new bookings once the full transition is completed or a date can be set.

Inclusive fares are on a scale so it is entirely possible they are increasing, it is hard to compare directly without knowing what level on the scale a particular fare is at.

I assume once the new stock is in use it will be possible to get the luxury cabins for the standard fare in the period they are not guaranteeing new stock, it'll be a lottery though as the berth self-selection has been removed post Feb 18.

 

[GW43125]

Last night:


92010 & 014 at Willesden (or in London at least).

92043 at Polmadie.

Do we know the whereabouts of 86101/401 please? Presumably 87002 is still in Glasgow?

 

[ScottDarg]

Do we know the whereabouts of 86101/401 please? Presumably 87002 is still in Glasgow?

87002 is indeed in Glasgow.

86101 should still be on the Euston 1S26 ECS (5S96).

86401 at Craigentinny receiving attention, no ETA for its return to service as far as I know.

 

[Sleeper69]

90016 leading 92043 on the southbound low lander tonight

 

[Essexman]

Any ideas on how the flexipass system will work with the new stock / fares? Will it cover the normal first class berths or the luxury ones? Will there be two versions or perhaps a supplement?

 

[47271]

Any ideas on how the flexipass system will work with the new stock / fares? Will it cover the normal first class berths or the luxury ones? Will there be two versions or perhaps a supplement?

They'd better think of some way for regular business travellers to use the service at a predictable and reasonable price or there are going to be some very empty trains running in the off season.

 

[route101]

87002 is indeed in Glasgow.

86101 should still be on the Euston 1S26 ECS (5S96).

86401 at Craigentinny receiving attention, no ETA for its return to service as far as I know.

Where is the locos kept at Polmadie ? Never seen any when i passed unless there inside

 

[ScottDarg]

Where is the locos kept at Polmadie ? Never seen any when i passed unless there inside

I believe they're usually inside. Don't see them most of the time either, only time they're outside when I've seen them is when they're going through the wash beside the motorway or shunting.

Seeing that 5S96 (1S26 ECS) hasn't left Wembley yet with this on the sleeper.scot site:

Service Update 1st December 2017: All Caledonian Sleeper services are expected to depart on time this evening.
Boarding For The Northbound Lowlander Euston-Glasgow & Edinburgh is now expected at 23:00 however we expect an on time departure. We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused

 

[route101]

I believe they're usually inside. Don't see them most of the time either, only time they're outside when I've seen them is when they're going through the wash beside the motorway or shunting.

Seeing that 5S96 (1S26 ECS) hasn't left Wembley yet with this on the sleeper.scot site:

I see , once seen one over the other side of the running lines

 

[TimboM]

Wonder if there's an issue with the Lowlander stock? 90 mins late leaving Wembley now. The disruption in the area may be the cause, however it doesn't look too rammed in and out of Euston now (e.g. the Up Slow was clear all the way from Wembley to Euston a moment ago) - and you'd think they'd want to get it in soonish for boarding.

 

[Mag_seven]

Seeing that 5S96 (1S26 ECS) hasn't left Wembley yet with this on the sleeper.scot site:

A light engine move from Willesden to Wembley was viewed on the track diagrams (0S95) about 15 mins ago.

 

[TimboM]

Wonder if there's an issue with the Lowlander stock? 90 mins late leaving Wembley now. The disruption in the area may be the cause, however it doesn't look too rammed in and out of Euston now (e.g. the Up Slow was clear all the way from Wembley to Euston a moment ago) - and you'd think they'd want to get it in soonish for boarding.

A light engine move from Willesden to Wembley was viewed on the track diagrams (0S95) about 15 mins ago.

Wonder if 86101 has sat down and a 92 (033?) will bring the stock in...?

Stock now appeared on the diagrams leaving Wembley...

 

[ScottDarg]

Wonder if 86101 has sat down and a 92 (033?) will bring the stock in...?

Stock now appeared on the diagrams leaving Wembley...

Definitely a blue 92 on the ECS so looking like 86101 wasn't playing ball tonight.

 

[TimboM]

...5S96 has a CS 92 on the front (probably 92033 but TBC). My hunch would be 86101 has sat down and 033 (has been rustled up from WN to sub in); but that might be 2+2 = 5

 

[Mag_seven]

If only that webcam could record the number

 

[TimboM]

If only that webcam could record the number

TOPS report I've just seen as at 21:45 is no help either as doesn't show anything for 1S25 although that clearly has a CS 92 on it.

Also says 92018 is the 5S96 loco, but not sure if that was the original or revised plan...?

It does have 92014 at Euston (which makes sense as has been reported elsewhere that's the 5S95/1S26 loco).

EDIT: 92010 is on 1S25, leaving the ECS loco as 018 or 033 - 018 if TOPS is to be believed.

 

[Scotrail84]

Any ideas on how the flexipass system will work with the new stock / fares? Will it cover the normal first class berths or the luxury ones? Will there be two versions or perhaps a supplement?

They'd better think of some way for regular business travellers to use the service at a predictable and reasonable price or there are going to be some very empty trains running in the off season.

AFAIK the flexi pass will be reduced to STD class travel booked online only with paper flexi tickets removed altogether. I think in the long term these will be done away with completely.