Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[JModulo]

Didnt see anything else Scott, just 002.

 

[ScottDarg]

Didnt see anything else Scott, just 002.

Thanks for the info, will be interesting to see what I get on tomorrow mornings Glasgow ECS.

 

[TimboM]

Assuming you're in Edinburgh, did anything else come over with 5C11, namely a 67?
Interested to know what done the ECS in to Glasgow if 87002 is elsewhere.

Didnt see anything else Scott, just 002.

I reckon you'll see "silver/grey" DB 67012 on ECS in the morning at Glasgow...

Looking at paths, I believe 67007 has done the Glasgow ECS move (5M11) - it ran from Mossend earlier as is due to switch with 67012 tonight (012 due an exam). 92014 most likely on the rear of 5M11 for 1M11 assuming it's 90045 that's out of action as per other evidence noted over the weekend.

The replacement 67 normally goes out on 5C11 to Waverley so it's ready to switch over during the night, however with the missing a/c loco tonight, there's instead a VSTP (0D11) in for the 5M11 ECS loco (probably 67007) to go to Waverley straight after 1M11 leaves Glasgow - this will allow 67007 to take over Inverness portion duties as planned and take 1S25 north later. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O48969/2017/12/03/advanced

There's then a VSTP in the early hours (0Z68) running from Waverley to Polmadie. This is most likely 67012 coming off the Inverness portion after its worked 1M16 to Waverley - and rather than running direct to Mossend as it usually does when the 67 returns to DB, it's going to do the ECS in the morning first before returning (probably) to Mossend/DB later tomorrow. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49005/2017/12/04/advanced

(There are also VSTPs for light loco moves direct from Mossend to Waverley (0Z25) and back (0Z16) tonight - but as these were put in a day or so ago compared to the very recent ones above, I think these will have been for "Plan A" and a direct swap over of the 67s.)

Note currently 47749 is at Mossend for repair, so isn't an option tonight.

 

[ScottDarg]

I reckon you'll see "silver/grey" DB 67012 on ECS in the morning at Glasgow...

Looking at paths, I believe 67007 has done the Glasgow ECS move (5M11) - it ran from Mossend earlier as is due to switch with 67012 tonight (012 due an exam). 92014 most likely on the rear of 5M11 for 1M11 assuming it's 90045 that's out of action as per other evidence noted over the weekend.

The replacement 67 normally goes out on 5C11 to Waverley so it's ready to switch over during the night, however with the missing a/c loco tonight, there's instead a VSTP (0D11) in for the 5M11 ECS loco (probably 67007) to go to Waverley straight after 1M11 leaves Glasgow - this will allow 67007 to take over Inverness portion duties as planned and take 1S25 north later. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O48969/2017/12/03/advanced

There's then a VSTP in the early hours (0Z68) running from Waverley to Polmadie. This is most likely 67012 coming off the Inverness portion after its worked 1M16 to Waverley - and rather than running direct to Mossend as it usually does when the 67 returns to DB, it's going to do the ECS in the morning first before returning (probably) to Mossend/DB later tomorrow. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49005/2017/12/04/advanced

(There are also VSTPs for light loco moves direct from Mossend to Waverley (0Z25) and back (0Z16) tonight - but as these were put in a day or so ago compared to the very recent ones above, I think these will have been for "Plan A" and a direct swap over of the 67s.)

Note currently 47749 is at Mossend for repair, so isn't an option tonight.

Thanks for the info Tim, appreciated as always

 

[TimboM]

Thanks for the info Tim, appreciated as always

I'd put it in the educated guess/accuracy health warning category at the moment...!

 

[gsnedders]

Probably covered somewhere in the previous hundred pages, but: who's driving the 67? Because I'm assuming GBRf doesn't exactly have drivers who sign the 67 just lying around!

 

[TimboM]

Probably covered somewhere in the previous hundred pages, but: who's driving the 67? Because I'm assuming GBRf doesn't exactly have drivers who sign the 67 just lying around!

As GB have used a 67 on the Inverness portion pretty much solidly since they took over the traction from DB in Spring 2015 (and they've also had 67s work ECS, Glasgow/Edinburgh Lowlander portions and Aberdeen portion before) I'd expect a good number of the GBRf drivers up in Scotland who work the beds sign 67s.

 

[Mag_seven]

Probably covered somewhere in the previous hundred pages, but: who's driving the 67? Because I'm assuming GBRf doesn't exactly have drivers who sign the 67 just lying around!

A lot of the DBC sleeper drivers were TUPE'd over from DBC to GBRf so they have the 67 driving knowledge.

 

[TimboM]

A lot of the DBC sleeper drivers were TUPE'd over from DBC to GBRf so they have the 67 driving knowledge.

I suspect they have pretty versatile traction knowledge given the multitude of locos that turn up on the beds/ECS - most will likely sign 86/87/90/92 on the A/C front and 47/66/67 and 73/9 on the diesel front (along with a host of other traction they worked in the past).

 

[Far north 37]

I reckon you'll see "silver/grey" DB 67012 on ECS in the morning at Glasgow...

Looking at paths, I believe 67007 has done the Glasgow ECS move (5M11) - it ran from Mossend earlier as is due to switch with 67012 tonight (012 due an exam). 92014 most likely on the rear of 5M11 for 1M11 assuming it's 90045 that's out of action as per other evidence noted over the weekend.

The replacement 67 normally goes out on 5C11 to Waverley so it's ready to switch over during the night, however with the missing a/c loco tonight, there's instead a VSTP (0D11) in for the 5M11 ECS loco (probably 67007) to go to Waverley straight after 1M11 leaves Glasgow - this will allow 67007 to take over Inverness portion duties as planned and take 1S25 north later. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O48969/2017/12/03/advanced

There's then a VSTP in the early hours (0Z68) running from Waverley to Polmadie. This is most likely 67012 coming off the Inverness portion after its worked 1M16 to Waverley - and rather than running direct to Mossend as it usually does when the 67 returns to DB, it's going to do the ECS in the morning first before returning (probably) to Mossend/DB later tomorrow. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49005/2017/12/04/advanced

(There are also VSTPs for light loco moves direct from Mossend to Waverley (0Z25) and back (0Z16) tonight - but as these were put in a day or so ago compared to the very recent ones above, I think these will have been for "Plan A" and a direct swap over of the 67s.)

Note currently 47749 is at Mossend for repair, so isn't an option tonight.

Take it thats 67007 finished with the rhtt duties at inverness now are they finished now or is there another loco up there.

 

[TimboM]

Take it thats 67007 finished with the rhtt duties at inverness now are they finished now or is there another loco up there.

67007 was back at Mossend this weekend with the "next" marker on TOPS as "GBRF". No other 67s appeared to be in Inverness having replaced it, but not sure if that means they're finished on RHTT up there now.

 

[TimboM]

A further VSTP (0Z69) just gone in for a light loco to return to Mossend soon after 5S26 ECS is due to get to Polmadie in the morning, adding further weight to the 67007/012 theory... http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O49015/2017/12/04/advanced

 

[Far north 37]

I suspect they have pretty versatile traction knowledge given the multitude of locos that turn up on the beds/ECS - most will likely sign 86/87/90/92 on the A/C front and 47/66/67 and 73/9 on the diesel front (along with a host of other traction they worked in the past).

Im pretty sure all the sleeper drivers at inverness came from dbc tuped over so would all be well familiar with 66s and 67s as you say.

 

[Scotrail84]

92 010 is a failure at Edinburgh. The 87 will work 1M16 now. Coming light from Carstairs.

 

[TimboM]

92 010 is a failure at Edinburgh. The 87 will work 1M16 now. Coming light from Carstairs.

Good job the 44 year-old loco is still going strong!
Plan (and it's a plan at this stage) is for 87002 to work 1S26 back north tomorrow.

 

[ScottDarg]

As predicted, Silver 67012 was this mornings 5S26 ECS loco in Glasgow with 90016 having led 1S26 up.

67012 is going back to Mossend after dropping off the rake and loco at Polmadie.

ECS loco for tonight is unknown at the moment.

92033 worked 1S25 last night, then ran to Carstairs to work 1B26 this morning.

 

[swaldman]

They'd better think of some way for regular business travellers to use the service at a predictable and reasonable price or there are going to be some very empty trains running in the off season.

I think I'm going to be driven to flying. I already mostly have, TBH, since it's been so rare to see affordable sleeper fares in the last couple of years.
Farewell to useful sleeper services in the UK, for any but the wealthy

 

[Mag_seven]

Plan (and it's a plan at this stage) is for 87002 to work 1S26 back north tomorrow.

Now planned to be 86101.

 

[BRX]

If the sleeper is transformed into a luxury tourist train and stops being something that provides connectivity for people

I think I'm going to be driven to flying. I already mostly have, TBH, since it's been so rare to see affordable sleeper fares in the last couple of years.
Farewell to useful sleeper services in the UK, for any but the wealthy

Question is who's to blame for this - Serco, or the Scottish Government in the way they specified/agreed the franchise?

If, with the introduction of the new stock, prices do rise substantially, and price existing regular users out, I hope people will make a fuss about it. It should be made a political issue, especially if the end result is that it's still a heavily subsidised service but is not delivering societal benefits in return.

 

[DuncanS]

Part of the appeal is that when coming home it saves the cost of an additional night in a London hotel - since Serco took over and the Bargain Berths went its been more expensive than when ScotRail ran it. My trip in October was probably my last as I cant justify the current costs never mind the future increases.

 

[johnr57]

Mine h

Mine had one last Sunday

mine had 3 but in a daft place above the window

 

[TimboM]

mine had 3 but in a daft place above the window

I believe that's because they're converted shaver sockets, so they're wherever the shaver sockets were.

 

[ScottDarg]

92033 on Up Lowlander tonight, 47749 on the ECS after running light from Mossend.

 

[TimboM]

92033 on Up Lowlander tonight, 47749 on the ECS after running light from Mossend.

...which really leaves 90016 as the only option for the Carstairs portion (evening shift) then on to Waverley on 0M16 (VSTP) to work 1M16 Highlander south to Euston.

Northbound
1S25 Highlander - 92018 (Update: to Crewe, with 90042 topping train at Crewe and working forward in order to get 90042 north to replace failed 90045).

5S95 Highlander ECS + 1S26 Lowlander - 86101
5S96 Lowlander ECS - 87002

One of the 1S25 locos to then run down to Carstairs (0B26 VSTP) to work 1B26 Carstairs-Edinburgh portion in the morning.

 

[JModulo]

90042 on this mornings 1B26. Had a good run up the road with 86101.

 

[ScottDarg]

47749 brought in Glasgow stock again, 86101 ready to lead it south

 

[Mag_seven]

GBRf liveried 92043 on the northbound lowlander (1S26) tonight.

 

[Scotrail84]

1B26 will be 90 042, 5B26 should be T and T with 92 033 leading out of Edinburgh

 

[TimboM]

1B26 will be 90 042, 5B26 should be T and T with 92 033 leading out of Edinburgh

With 92010 having been fixed (and working 1M16 last night) this should mean 92018 remains in Waverley to work 1M16 tonight and the 'spare' loco is now over at Polmadie ready to swap 86101 back out when it returns on 1S26 tonight (86101 then returning to Glasgow ECS duties)

 

[paul1609]

Part of the appeal is that when coming home it saves the cost of an additional night in a London hotel - since Serco took over and the Bargain Berths went its been more expensive than when ScotRail ran it. My trip in October was probably my last as I cant justify the current costs never mind the future increases.

Sadly on London to Scotland thats true of rail as a whole not just the sleeper. The prices being demanded for off peak returns and relatively short notice advances just aren't competitive with what the airlines offer. Cant help but think thats why passenger figures are dropping.