Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[TimboM]

1M11 is Load 16 + 2 locos (90 + 92) on the front - and the ECS loco is a 92... could make things interesting at Euston in the morning.

 

[47271]

AFAIK the flexi pass will be reduced to STD class travel booked online only with paper flexi tickets removed altogether. I think in the long term these will be done away with completely.

The paper flexi has gone already. You can still use old ones within a year of purchase but it's online only if you buy a new one. There is a temporary price advantage in that an online purchase is £1450 whereas papers were £1600 at the end.

I don't think anyone's that bothered about the flexi itself, but if you make 80 journeys a year you want to know that they're all at the same price and not subject to an advance booking competition with American tourists.

 

[TimboM]

I don't think anyone's that bothered about the flexi itself, but if you make 80 journeys a year you want to know that they're all at the same price and not subject to an advance booking competition with American tourists.

If Serco are following the "hotel on wheels" principle (which is a debate in itself) is it a reasonable expectation that 80 journeys (or "stays") over the course of a year are all at the same price? If you were staying in the same hotel in the same city 80 times in a year, I think you'd expect/accept some nights in peak periods (e.g. holiday seasons, big events on) to be more expensive than out of season when there's much less demand.

The nearest equivalent I can thing of is where companies agree preferred rates with certain hotels in exchange for a certain guaranteed number of nights/occupancy over the year - I wonder if Serco will do something like this with corporates and/or individuals (I'm not holding my breath!)

 

[adrock1976]

The 23:40 (1 December) Glasgow Central-Euston had 87002 "Royal Sovereign" bringing in the set from Polmadie.

When I alighted at Euston earlier (60 minutes delayed - something happened around the the new town that is famous for stealing football teams from south of the Thames so as to buy a place in the league), I was surprised to see double headers 90016+92043.

Were there problems with 92043?

 

[TimboM]

The 23:40 (1 December) Glasgow Central-Euston had 87002 "Royal Sovereign" bringing in the set from Polmadie.

When I alighted at Euston earlier (60 minutes delayed - something happened around the the new town that is famous for stealing football teams from south of the Thames so as to buy a place in the league), I was surprised to see double headers 90016+92043.

Were there problems with 92043?

No, 90016 (leading) and 92043 (DIT) were on the train from the start at Glasgow - it was a loco positioning move to get 92043 back South.
The delay between MK/Watford was due to overrunning repairs to the overhead line damage that happened yesterday evening on the Fasts at Harrow.

 

[Scotrail84]

The 23:40 (1 December) Glasgow Central-Euston had 87002 "Royal Sovereign" bringing in the set from Polmadie.

When I alighted at Euston earlier (60 minutes delayed - something happened around the the new town that is famous for stealing football teams from south of the Thames so as to buy a place in the league), I was surprised to see double headers 90016+92043.

Were there problems with 92043?

Either that or it was a positional move, very unusual to have double header. Top and Tailed is not allowed now when the train is in service so I don't think they had any choice.

 

[ScottDarg]

Either that or it was a positional move, very unusual to have double header. Top and Tailed is not allowed now when the train is in service so I don't think they had any choice.

Even more unusual to have a double-header made up of a 90 and 92 I believe?

Last double header was November 10th (https://flic.kr/p/ZhW4HW), 90042 + 047. Again, a rebalancing of the locos after 92028 went south on the 9th instead of 90047.

 

[TimboM]

Either that or it was a positional move, very unusual to have double header. Top and Tailed is not allowed now when the train is in service so I don't think they had any choice.

Positional move, as above...
Last Saturday 92028 moved from Carlisle (where it'd taken the china clay tanks) to Polmadie, so it could then head south on 1M11 on Sunday night and then on to Dollands Moor on Monday to bring the delivery of new NACCO sand hoppers through the tunnel Monday night.
This move meant an 'extra' loco had ended up at the Scotland end (as 92028 effectively replaced whatever would've normally worked 1M11 back on the Sunday night) - so this is really the balancing move to get the 'extra' loco back south.

 

[TimboM]

Even more unusual to have a double-header made up of a 90 and 92 I believe?

Last double header was November 10th (https://flic.kr/p/ZhW4HW), 90042 + 047. Again, a rebalancing of the locos after 92028 went south on the 9th instead of 90047.

There was a 90 (016) + 87 double header on Wed 18th October to move 87002 north (again 87 was DIT).

The only other time I can recall a 90+92 combo this year at least was when 90046 had 92010 DIT (another loco positioning move) on 1M16 on night of 15th June. However, 90046 had a Traction Motor failure as it left Waverley and was dragged off to Mossend by 86401, leaving 92010 to work the train forward to Euston - so that double header lasted all of a few hundred yards!

 

[tsr]

1M11 is Load 16 + 2 locos (90 + 92) on the front - and the ECS loco is a 92... could make things interesting at Euston in the morning.

Yep, 5M11 blocked 1S45 0830 EUS-GLC, which caused the latter to have a 62min late start.

 

[TimboM]

Yep, 5M11 blocked 1S45 0830 EUS-GLC, which caused the latter to have a 62min late start.

Wouldn't it have been feasible to let 1S45 get away first before bringing the 92 on to the top of the stock (as without the 92 on it would've been "normal" length)? Or was it a case of it was going to cause problems at some point, so best to bite the bullet and get 5M11 out of the way as soon as poss?

 

[47271]

The nearest equivalent I can thing of is where companies agree preferred rates with certain hotels in exchange for a certain guaranteed number of nights/occupancy over the year - I wonder if Serco will do something like this with corporates and/or individuals (I'm not holding my breath!)

Exactly my point.

The hotel flexible pricing model would be just about okay if we had any confidence that prices would drop out of season and annual travel costs balanced that way, but my fear is that Serco would sooner run empty trains than do that.

They also need to remember that this train is subsidised as a public service, and if those who rely on it are priced off it through market forces then it will become a political issue.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Good morning everyone. 92014 was on the blocks at Euston last night having brought in the ECS for the Highlander.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149563882@N07/27007398459/in/dateposted-public/

 

[Scotrail84]

47 271 and flying snail did you get my PMs?

 

[Hadders]

I fear that normal passengers are going to be priced off the sleeper once the new stock arrives. A reminder that since Serco took over we've seen:

- Appalling reliablity
- Extortionate increase in berth supplement fees (with more to come)
- Removal of solo use of a standard class berth option (seems to be making a comeback, although at a far higher price)
- Refusal to accept ALRs on the last day of validity
- Difficulties in reserving seats between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh which can be used as a normal 'day' train (I suspect Serco want this removed)

 

[DuncanS]

The removal of the bargain berths has been the big issue for me.

 

[Clansman]

I fear that normal passengers are going to be priced off the sleeper once the new stock arrives. A reminder that since Serco took over we've seen:

- Appalling reliablity
- Extortionate increase in berth supplement fees (with more to come)
- Removal of solo use of a standard class berth option (seems to be making a comeback, although at a far higher price)
- Refusal to accept ALRs on the last day of validity
- Difficulties in reserving seats between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh which can be used as a normal 'day' train (I suspect Serco want this removed)

Staff travel berth allocations are being cut also. Will be comical to see how the Aberdeen portion pans out a few months into the operation of the new stock given it's not uncommon of it to rely prinarily on staff pass travellers for custom.

 

[al78]

I fear that normal passengers are going to be priced off the sleeper once the new stock arrives.

I did hear with interest the proposed upgrades to the sleeper. I am planning to do some weekend backpacking trips in Scotland next year. The sleeper is ideal for this, as I can travel overnight to Dalwhinnie on Friday evening, hike across to Fort William over 2-3 days, then get the sleeper back. I had a look at the second May bank holiday and found the only berths available are first class costing over £200 each way. In other words it would be more sensible to take a couple more days leave, get a daytime train and book a night each end in a reasonably priced B&B, cheaper and likely sleep much better.

 

[uww11x]

Used it last year to Aberdeen and the standard is nowhere near as good as GWR's Sleeper. Wanted to charge my phone in the lounge but the sockets didn't work. Questioned the member of staff and was told what do you expect from an old train. Haven't been on since.

 

[TimboM]

Used it last year to Aberdeen and the standard is nowhere near as good as GWR's Sleeper. Wanted to charge my phone in the lounge but the sockets didn't worked. Questioned the member of staff and was told what do you expect from an old train. Haven't been on since.

That's why "they" (or Transport Scotland and DfT to be more precise) are spending £100m or whatever it is on 75 brand new Mk5 coaches.
Incidentally, I believe most if not all berths in the old stock now have USB charging points fitted in them.

 

[uww11x]

That's why "they" (or Transport Scotland and DfT to be more precise) are spending £100m or whatever it is on 75 brand new Mk5 coaches.
Incidentally, I believe most if not all berths in the old stock now have USB charging points fitted in them.

Mine didn't!

 

[TimboM]

Mine didn't!

They've been fitting them in the year since you went on them. There is/was also a way to use the shaver sockets to charge phones, but probably shouldn't disclose/recommend it as the electrics in those old Mk3s probably aren't the most robust

 

[paul1609]

Mine h

That's why "they" (or Transport Scotland and DfT to be more precise) are spending £100m or whatever it is on 75 brand new Mk5 coaches.
Incidentally, I believe most if not all berths in the old stock now have USB charging points fitted in them.

Mine had one last Sunday

 

[uww11x]

They've been fitting them in the year since you went on them. There is/was also a way to use the shaver sockets to charge phones, but probably shouldn't disclose/recommend it as the electrics in those old Mk3s probably aren't the most robust

True.

 

[47271]

They've all had USBs fitted for a long time now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Used it last year to Aberdeen and the standard is nowhere near as good as GWR's Sleeper. Wanted to charge my phone in the lounge but the sockets didn't work. Questioned the member of staff and was told what do you expect from an old train. Haven't been on since.

That's because GWR are keeping the Mk3s and so they are being looked after, whereas CS are binning them so they are getting bare minimum before likely being scrapped.

 

[ScottDarg]

92018 looks to be tonights Highlander loco (only blue 92 it can be really).

86101 brought in 5S96 and 90016 looking set to lead 1S26 after bringing in 5S95, liable to change of course.

 

[JModulo]

87002 on the Edinburgh portion of 1M11 tonight.

 

[Mag_seven]

87002 on the Edinburgh portion of 1M11 tonight.

That makes a pleasant change - it normally does 5M11 (stock from Polmadie to GC).

(BTW the Edinburgh portion of 1M11 has the headcode 1C11:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C74097/2017/12/03/advanced)

 

[ScottDarg]

87002 on the Edinburgh portion of 1M11 tonight.

Assuming you're in Edinburgh, did anything else come over with 5C11, namely a 67?

Interested to know what done the ECS in to Glasgow if 87002 is elsewhere.