Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[NamelessPoster]

Read Modern Railways last night and it looks like there will be First and Standard class seating (as the pods have been abandoned, sadly). This seems an odd move given that the seats in general are "third class". ORCATS raid?

As I understand it the pod beds failed to meet safety standards and crash safety tests and had to be shelved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I understand it the pod beds failed to meet safety standards and crash safety tests and had to be shelved.

So I believe - but absent the pods, I don't see any point in two seating classes, particularly both with very upright-looking seats. Better would be to find a way to provide more berths, or even another design like longitudinal couchettes. (If they meet road crash standards on the Megabus...)

 

[NamelessPoster]

So I believe - but absent the pods, I don't see any point in two seating classes, particularly both with very upright-looking seats. Better would be to find a way to provide more berths, or even another design like longitudinal couchettes. (If they meet road crash standards on the Megabus...)

I would take that two classes seating with a mega pinch of salt. As I understand it there will be one seated coach with reclining seats of first class standard but at standard prices.

 

[BRX]

Two 73/9s on the front about to leave fort william just now. The seated and lounge cars in intercity livery (maybe this is not new?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would take that two classes seating with a mega pinch of salt. As I understand it there will be one seated coach with reclining seats of first class standard but at standard prices.

So is the Modern Railways photo of two types of seat, one posher and wider than the other, just two example seats that may be used?

 

[fgwrich]

Two 73/9s on the front about to leave fort william just now. The seated and lounge cars in intercity livery (maybe this is not new?)

Sounds like the hired in Mk2s from Riviera are being used again.

Am I right in thinking that it seems to be only the Fort William portion using the Hired In Rivera Mk2s at the moment?

Also, just out of question - I'm booked on the Inverness Sleeper next week, what is the formation of the Highland Sleeper? Is the rake formed up at the London end of Inverness / Aberdeen / Fort William or something else?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's just the FW portion, yes. Having the 2+2 with tables in the seated coach is not a terrible thing at all, as most people won't be asleep on that leg and it offers increased capacity for day passengers.

 

[Servotech Rail]

Sounds like the hired in Mk2s from Riviera are being used again.

Am I right in thinking that it seems to be only the Fort William portion using the Hired In Rivera Mk2s at the moment?

Also, just out of question - I'm booked on the Inverness Sleeper next week, what is the formation of the Highland Sleeper? Is the rake formed up at the London end of Inverness / Aberdeen / Fort William or something else?

They definitely have MK2 carriages, I was talking about the repair support for the PA Driver to Guard system earlier this week.

 

[47271]

Sounds like the hired in Mk2s from Riviera are being used again.

Am I right in thinking that it seems to be only the Fort William portion using the Hired In Rivera Mk2s at the moment?

Also, just out of question - I'm booked on the Inverness Sleeper next week, what is the formation of the Highland Sleeper? Is the rake formed up at the London end of Inverness / Aberdeen / Fort William or something else?

You'll find Inverness at the rear of The Highlander on Platform 1 at Euston, so as you approach: pilot loco-seated coach-lounge-First Class sleepers-Standard Class sleepers, then you're into the Aberdeen section.

 

[najaB]

Also, just out of question - I'm booked on the Inverness Sleeper next week, what is the formation of the Highland Sleeper? Is the rake formed up at the London end of Inverness / Aberdeen / Fort William or something else?

That's the normal formation, yes.

 

[NamelessPoster]

So is the Modern Railways photo of two types of seat, one posher and wider than the other, just two example seats that may be used?

Yes I'd certainly say so. Logic dictates there is no way there will be two seated coaches as already berth numbers will decrease with the new ensuite berths so they are never in a million years going to put on another seated coach and lessen sleeping berth numbers even further. The seated coach will have first class seats (style-wise) at standard prices. The photo in your mag may have just been to demonstrate the difference in quality between the two seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't expect two seated coaches, but the idea of two classes of seat being present in one coach would not be ruled out by that. On the other hand it would seem to me a silly idea, as any type of seat is the lowest class on an overnight train.


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[NamelessPoster]

I wouldn't expect two seated coaches, but the idea of two classes of seat being present in one coach would not be ruled out by that. On the other hand it would seem to me a silly idea, as any type of seat is the lowest class on an overnight train.


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There would be very little reason or point to have two different set of seating. And what would be stopping people in lesser seats just sitting in the reclining seats? Also like I say I have only heard of one type of seating being used - first class standard reclining seats.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As long as the coach thurmostats work unlike now and the seats have a plug socket Il be happy

 

[najaB]

Has there been a change to policy with regards to Rovers and passes? The website now says "All Line Rover tickets valid for the date of arrival in destination" and "BritRail passes valid for the date of arrival in destination."

Did it not previously specifically state that they had to be valid for both days?

 

[Hadders]

Has there been a change to policy with regards to Rovers and passes? The website now says "All Line Rover tickets valid for the date of arrival in destination" and "BritRail passes valid for the date of arrival in destination."

Did it not previously specifically state that they had to be valid for both days?

Sadly, the useless Serco have changed it which is inconsistent with previous practice and what happens on the Night Riviera. This is just one of several backwards moves since Serco took over:

- appalling reliability
- refusal to accept the Local Scottish Routeing Guide Easements
- Removal of Advance fares when using the seated sleeper as a 'day' service between Fort William and Edinburgh/Glasgow
- Huge increase in berth reservation fees

 

[najaB]

...Serco have changed it which is inconsistent with previous practice and what happens on the Night Riviera.

I know that, what I'm wondering is if they have changed it again. I'm fairly sure the page used to specifically say the pass had to be valid for both days, now it only says it has to be valid on the day you arrive.

 

[Hadders]

I know that, what I'm wondering is if they have changed it again. I'm fairly sure the page used to specifically say the pass had to be valid for both days, now it only says it has to be valid on the day you arrive.

I'm not an expert in Britrail passes but I seem to remember reading that they only had to be valid for one day (not sure if that was departure or arrival) but ALRs had to be valid for both days.

 

[gazr]

I'm not an expert in Britrail passes but I seem to remember reading that they only had to be valid for one day (not sure if that was departure or arrival) but ALRs had to be valid for both days.

Britrail pass is valid on arrival. I used mine the day before it became valid leaving Euston on the 1S25 with no issues. I believe you would also have no issue using the pass on the last day either, as it would be valid at the initial check, and tickets are not usually inspected after that.

 

[berneyarms]

Britrail pass is valid on arrival. I used mine the day before it became valid leaving Euston on the 1S25 with no issues. I believe you would also have no issue using the pass on the last day either, as it would be valid at the initial check, and tickets are not usually inspected after that.

That's not right.

BritRail passes have to be valid on both dates - departure and arrival.

You were clearly lucky as whoever checked the tickets was not aware of the restriction.

It clearly states in the Ts & Cs:

BritRail Passes are valid from 00:00 to 24:00 hrs (Midnight to Midnight) on a chosen day of travel. If a pass holder is travelling on an overnight train containing sleeper accommodation, the next day's date must be inserted.

In other words you have to use both dates.

Any chance as well that people can actually say which departure they're talking about rather than using head codes - we don't all memorise them and not having to look them up would be a help!

 

[Flying Snail]

That's not right.

BritRail passes have to be valid on both dates - departure and arrival.

I believe they used to be valid on overnight trains once you boarded before midnight on the valid day, I do recall something along those lines being in the conditions in BR days but I don't have one at hand to check.

I don't think the opposite was ever the case, it has never been acceptable to start a journey on a ticket before their valid date.

 

[12CSVT]

Have they stopped doing the £55 advance fare for the Seated sleeper ?

Cheapest fare being quoted on National Rail Enquiries was £139 for an off-peak single, even when I looked at midweek dates in October.

 

[najaB]

Have they stopped doing the £55 advance fare for the Seated sleeper ?

It's still in the fares database (based on BR Fares) but since it's high season I wouldn't be surprised if they are all sold out.

 

[Iskra]

I've just stumbled upon this, which I haven't seen posted on here yet. It gives a sneak peak of the new CAF stock.

https://www.sleeper.scot/news/155-transport-minister-glimpses-future-of-caledonian-sleeper

 

[gazr]

That's not right.

BritRail passes have to be valid on both dates - departure and arrival.

You were clearly lucky as whoever checked the tickets was not aware of the restriction.

It clearly states in the Ts & Cs:
"BritRail Passes are valid from 00:00 to 24:00 hrs (Midnight to Midnight) on a chosen day of travel. If a pass holder is travelling on an overnight train containing sleeper accommodation, the next day's date must be inserted"

If you're going to quote t&cs on me, you need to understand the context if you have a Britpass, when you get it validated at a station, you must give them the date you want it to start (I had a consecutive one, so not sure about others). On the ticket, the ticket office enters (inserts) the start and end dates. The above quote is referring to the fact, if like me you choose to start you Britpass on a sleeper, the next day's date must be inserted. I confirmed this with CS before travelling and was certainly not trying to fair dodge one bit.

Edit: I realise not many people start a consecutive Britpass on a sleeper, and the above t&cs are contradictory if taken literally and most likely apply to the non-consecutive Britpass. This is why I confirmed it when I reserved my seat with CS.

 

[berneyarms]

If you're going to quote t&cs on me, you need to understand the context if you have a Britpass, when you get it validated at a station, you must give them the date you want it to start (I had a consecutive one, so not sure about others). On the ticket, the ticket office enters (inserts) the start and end dates. The above quote is referring to the fact, if like me you choose to start you Britpass on a sleeper, the next day's date must be inserted. I confirmed this with CS before travelling and was certainly not trying to fair dodge one bit.

Edit: I realise not many people start a consecutive Britpass on a sleeper, and the above t&cs are contradictory if taken literally and most likely apply to the non-consecutive Britpass. This is why I confirmed it when I reserved my seat with CS.

I'm a frequent BritRail pass user myself, as in several times a year, so I'd like to think that I know about it.

I've never heard that you can start it with the next day's date before - I've always been told that I've had to have both - I had asked ACP International that exact question and they confirmed that I needed both dates.

And as it happens I've never had an office insert the dates - all they've ever done is stamped the first date on it and left me to do the rest.

But, I'll be honest, I've never started it on a sleeper. But I find that suggestion rather odd. What if you started in Inverness for example?

 

[samshltn]

I wonder what the 'NRS' stood for in this context? In my trade (airlines) it would be 'Non-revenue standby'. Does anyone know what it means here?

 

[47271]

I wonder what the 'NRS' stood for in this context? In my trade (airlines) it would be 'Non-revenue standby'. Does anyone know what it means here?

Not Really Sure?

The example's old so I don't recognise anything from bookings I've ever had or heard about, but it could relate either to single occupany of a twin cabin - exactly the point of the article - or it could allude to what you suggest, they were holding the berth back as some sort of contingency.

It also looks like the very experienced attendant of time didn't know either, so unless anyone else was around on the sleeper eight years ago I think it's a bit of a mystery.

 

[smudga331]

looks as thought 1S25 is having problems again. 82 Late into Crewe and lots of people in Orange Hi-viz's sniffing around the tracks with torches.

Edit: Appears to be some shunting occurring as the Class 90 has just pulled forward with just 4 mk3's attached leaving the remainder in the platform.

Just done the same again with only 3 Mk3's.

 

[BRX]

What actually was the problem, the last time it never got further than Crewe?