Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

[TimboM]

I meant the Amtrak one. The CS one is fine, has a door on it!

Ah.... I was wondering

 

[Bletchleyite]

Judging by the width of the corridor in that last picture, your suitcase would definitely need 4 wheels to navigate that!
(My suitcase currently has 2 and it's a very ungainly case indeed)

Other than in the seated coach the heating conduit looks massive to the point of getting in the way. I wonder why it's been done like that? Do they even need one on the corridor side?

 

[ScottDarg]

Alastair Dalton's posted some images of the new stock on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AlastairDalton/status/992676519381217280?s=19

Associated Scotsman article:

Passengers on the Caledonian Sleeper’s brand new trains are promised a “silky smooth” ride that will consign the service’s notorious bumps and jolts to history.

Rail chiefs who showed off the first of the Spanish-built carriages to The Scotsman yesterday said the impact of sections being coupled and decoupled en route would be “almost negligible”.

The trains are being fitted out in Glasgow ahead of the first ones going into service between Edinburgh, Glasgow and London on 28 October.

Replacing carriages up to nearly 50 years old, they are due to also operate the Sleeper’s London routes to Fort William, Inverness and Aberdeen from the spring.

Innovations include double beds, wheelchair-accessible rooms and ensuite wet rooms with showers, to be “tested to in an inch of their life”.

Passengers will access cabins with tap-on smartcards, and can order room-service food via intercom.

Operator Serco said air conditioning, another passenger bugbear of the current service, would also be transformed.

New trains director Marcus Conn said: “It was one of the areas I was really concerned about but I’m confident it will be fantastic.”

The new lounge car can accommodate 34 people compared to 18 at present, with its new layout including banquette seating, and stools along a “saw tooth”-shaped table for solo travellers

The new galley has a wide range of equipment such as a holding oven which Serco said could keep scrambled egg in a “nice state” for two hours.

Caledonian Sleeper managing director Ryan Flaherty said: “We have won awards with the current two-microwave galley - what we will be able to do with this is very exciting.”

Seated passengers will have individual reading lights, power and USB charging points, and lockable storage for valuables, using an access code they set themselves.

Airline-style screens showing the progress of the journey and landmarks en route will replace announcements to reduce disturbance.

The tan and teal reclining seats do not tilt towards the person behind but they also don’t go back any further than the current ones.

Original plans for lie-flat “pod” seats were abandoned because of crash safety concerns.

The £150 million fleet will be covered by CCTV for the first time, while the vestibules even have shoe cleaners.

Features that reflect the Scottish Government’s requirement that the trains are “emblematic of Scotland” include brown Tweed walls.

Mr Flaherty said: “It makes it Scottish without being a shortbread tin.”

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...er-trains-that-go-bump-in-the-night-1-4735214

 

[TimboM]

I'm not sure if it's the Serco marketing people or the journalist elaborating on things, but you do wonder why they over-egg things so much. Just setting themselves up for an unnecessary fall?

"silky smooth" ride with no more 'notorious' bumps/jolts [they'll still be 92-hauled on the WCML!]
"negligible" impact of the sections being coupled/uncoupled
"tested to in [sic] an inch of their life" [so the stock will be 100% perfect when it enters service?]

And as for claims they (or anyone) can keep scrambled egg in a "nice state" in a 'holding' oven for two hours...

 

[47271]

We are quoting the hopeless A Dalton here let's not forget.

I'm assuming that he's never actually travelled on the existing train if he thinks: 'Airline-style screens showing the progress of the journey and landmarks en route will replace announcements to reduce disturbance.' What announcements are these?!

 

[BestWestern]

That aisle/corridor does look incredibly narrow! Locking numberpads on the overhead lockers should keep the crew busy with all those who will inevitably forget their codes!

 

[TimboM]

That aisle/corridor does look incredibly narrow! Locking numberpads on the overhead lockers should keep the crew busy with all those who will inevitably forget their codes!

Those who've actually been in it say it's a trick of the camera angle and it's no narrower than the current corridor.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

Just setting themselves up for an unnecessary fall??

The Scotsman newspaper, that contradiction in terms, Setting up ready to say I told you so when someone complains they spilled their tea. Couldn't print enough P45s for Humza if they tried

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Those who've actually been in it say it's a trick of the camera angle and it's no narrower than the current corridor.

But that goes against forum convention, which dictates that judgement of all new or refurbished stock be made on the basis of one photo.

 

[BRX]

the tan and teal reclining seats do not tilt towards the person behind but they also don’t go back any further than the current ones.

I don't think I understand what this sentence is supposed to mean.

 

[TimboM]

I don't think I understand what this sentence is supposed to mean.

Written by a Scotsman "journalist" - not sure it's supposed to make any sense

 

[mde]

Written by a Scotsman "journalist" - not sure it's supposed to make any sense

Now now, this is correspondent of the year Al Dalton - quality is his forte… or, so we're told.

I'd interpret it as basically saying the recline function is no different to the existing ScotRail branded seats (do they recline?). Serco may very well answer if asked on social media, but, they do seem to be a bit evasive when asked questions about the new carriages.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now now, this is correspondent of the year Al Dalton - quality is his forte… or, so we're told.

I'd interpret it as basically saying the recline function is no different to the existing ScotRail branded seats (do they recline?). Serco may very well answer if asked on social media, but, they do seem to be a bit evasive when asked questions about the new carriages.

Pretty much all railway reclining seats do so by pulling the base forwards rather than leaning the back backwards. This has the big advantage of meaning that if you recline you take your own legroom and not somebody else's. I'm very pleased to see that these are the same.

 

[BRX]

Pretty much all railway reclining seats do so by pulling the base forwards rather than leaning the back backwards. This has the big advantage of meaning that if you recline you take your own legroom and not somebody else's. I'm very pleased to see that these are the same.

Doesn't that effectively mean that sliding to an upright position from a reclined one takes away the legroom behind?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't that effectively mean that sliding to an upright position from a reclined one takes away the legroom behind?

No, unless the design is totally different to every other UK First Class railway seat. The back "shell" doesn't move, just the cushion and base.

 

[mde]

Pretty much all railway reclining seats do so by pulling the base forwards rather than leaning the back backwards. This has the big advantage of meaning that if you recline you take your own legroom and not somebody else's. I'm very pleased to see that these are the same.

well given said journalist is known to lurk here, perhaps he will be suitably re-educated

 

[sdrennan]

How many Sleeper Coaches are in the UK. Is it just the originals that were sent for testing?

 

[hexagon789]

How many Sleeper Coaches are in the UK. Is it just the originals that were sent for testing?

67 Mk3 sleepers in service (GWR, Caledonian Sleeper excluding the Royal train but including a few other vehicles). Of these 47 are SLEP (Sleeper Either Pantry), 8 are SLE (Sleeper Either) and 12 SLED (Sleeper Either Disabled).

 

[sdrennan]

I need to be more detailed in my questions!
I thought that this was the mk5 discussion thread and that it would have been obvious my question was how many "Mk5" sleeper coaches are in the UK

 

[hexagon789]

I need to be more detailed in my questions!
I thought that this was the mk5 discussion thread and that it would have been obvious my question was how many "Mk5" sleeper coaches are in the UK

The Mk3s have been discussed in this thread too

 

[ScottDarg]

How many Sleeper Coaches are in the UK. Is it just the originals that were sent for testing?

21 currently at Polmadie I believe.

 

[TimboM]

21 currently at Polmadie I believe.

I believe you're correct, Scott.

This includes the original 5 that were tested at Velim and came via the tunnel/WCML, plus a further 16 that came via ship to Tees Dock and moved from there.

The "Velim 5" went direct from Spain to Velim then to Polmadie - they didn't come to the UK first then go out to the Czech Republic.

 

[stuart]

Apologies if this has been covered earlier in the thread: I flicked through it but couldn't see anything. Do we know what the intended formation of the new trains will be? Is the same two 8 coach "half sets" as at present? And will the FTW lounge and seated coaches still be added/detached at EDB?

 

[TimboM]

Apologies if this has been covered earlier in the thread: I flicked through it but couldn't see anything. Do we know what the intended formation of the new trains will be? Is the same two 8 coach "half sets" as at present? And will the FTW lounge and seated coaches still be added/detached at EDB?

Yes to all that.
No material changes in that respect.

 

[stuart]

Yes to all that.
No material changes in that respect.

Thanks for that. Pity that the opportunity has not been taken to sort out what are probably the two least satisfactory aspects of the "Highlander" operation (the shunting and the foot transfers).

 

[marks87]

Thanks for that. Pity that the opportunity has not been taken to sort out what are probably the two least satisfactory aspects of the "Highlander" operation (the shunting and the foot transfers).

There's not much can be done about the shunting without making the Sleeper even less economical than it is now, and the foot transfers are because Euston can't accommodate 18 coaches. The only way that could have been rectified would have been through ordering shorter coaches (or sacrificing two sleepers from the full train).

 

[BRX]

Maybe the relaunched service will be such an outstanding success that more stock can be ordered and the highlander split into two 16 coach trains in each direction...

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's not much can be done about the shunting without making the Sleeper even less economical than it is now, and the foot transfers are because Euston can't accommodate 18 coaches. The only way that could have been rectified would have been through ordering shorter coaches (or sacrificing two sleepers from the full train).

They've improved it a bit by fitting Scharfenbergs. For the Lowlander I suppose they could have ordered EMUs instead?

 

[stuart]

Agree the point about the Euston (and possibly other locations) length limitation. But there could perhaps have been a solution along the lines of hybrid seated/lounge cars for the FTW and ABD portions without changing the overall capacity or length.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree the point about the Euston (and possibly other locations) length limitation. But there could perhaps have been a solution along the lines of hybrid seated/lounge cars for the FTW and ABD portions without changing the overall capacity or length.

I did expect them to do something like that and was surprised they didn’t. Mind you the seats are a budget option, so I doubt most users are that bothered. With the typical lack of sleep I enjoyed a 4am wander around, to be honest.