Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

[Bletchleyite]

All looks very nice, though the gloss white panels in the twin bunk room makes it look a bit Spartan - surprised another colour wasn't chosen.

 

[33Hz]

I'm intrigued as to whether this flip-down upper bunk is retained in the double rooms.

(From https://earlofcruise.blogspot.com/2016/10/britain-s-sleeper-trains-enjoy-revival.html)

 

[jellybaby]

New video of the coach interiors:

Is it just me that thinks the way the destination panel is attached to the outside of the carriage is really ugly?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it just me that thinks the way the destination panel is attached to the outside of the carriage is really ugly?

View attachment 57818

Yes, I agree, it looks really odd. Probably difficult to put it in the window of a sleeper coach (that being the norm) because of the need for blinds, though.

 

[scotrail170407]

Does anybody know when the Mk5s will be in service with CS?

 

[BRX]

Does anybody know when the Mk5s will be in service with CS?

Currently supposed to be April/May for the Lowlander, and then some time after that for the Highlander, I think.

 

[TimboM]

Currently supposed to be April/May for the Lowlander, and then some time after that for the Highlander, I think.

Fully rolled out by end of May per the CS website.

I'm intrigued as to whether this flip-down upper bunk is retained in the double rooms.
(From https://earlofcruise.blogspot.com/2016/10/britain-s-sleeper-trains-enjoy-revival.html)

Been no mention of the extra single bunk since this early mock up - not in any of the new stock/rooms descriptions/layouts etc. for "Caledonian Doubles" that I've seen - pretty sure it didn't' make it past the concept stage.

 

[47271]

In terms of rollout on Highlander routes - when did a test run last get north of Edinburgh and where did it go? I think that's there's been virtually nothing and on that basis May's got to most unlikely. Do they even have enough stock delivered, fitted out and accepted to run anything other than the Lowlander before the autumn?

 

[59CosG95]

Not strictly Mk5 related news, but RAIL's Richard Clinnick has stated on Twitter that 8 Caledonian Sleeper Mk3s are off for scrap this week.

 

[greatkingrat]

Not strictly Mk5 related news, but RAIL's Richard Clinnick has stated on Twitter that 8 Caledonian Sleeper Mk3s are off for scrap this week.

How is that possible? There are 48 sleeper cars in use on any given night, and according to Wikipedia they only have 53 in total?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Well, once I've been to Edinburgh and Dundee and Perth whilst I'm up there (all hopefully next year), I might do this service to Dundee. From Oxford, you can get to it via Birmingham New Street and Crewe and join it around 23:50 (23:36 on Sundays, not sure aboutSaturdays) from Crewe.

If I was going this year, with my Disabled Persons Railcard, I could get to Crewe for I think around £16-17 and from Crewe to Dundee for around £35-40 by using the seated accommodation!

 

[route101]

Well, once I've been to Edinburgh and Dundee and Perth whilst I'm up there (all hopefully next year), I might do this service to Dundee. From Oxford, you can get to it via Birmingham New Street and Crewe and join it around 23:50 (23:36 on Sundays, not sure aboutSaturdays) from Crewe.

If I was going this year, with my Disabled Persons Railcard, I could get to Crewe for I think around £16-17 and from Crewe to Dundee for around £35-40 by using the seated accommodation!

Yeah good idea. Or you could get it from Euston for the full route.

 

[Defiance149]

How is that possible? There are 48 sleeper cars in use on any given night, and according to Wikipedia they only have 53 in total?

There's a Wembley-Booths path in for tomorrow night.

 

[Mag_seven]

There's a Wembley-Booths path in for tomorrow night.

Details for anyone who is interested:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03861/2019/01/16/advanced

 

[Spirit555]

Have been quoted 6 coaches for scrap 10613 10507 10508 10548 10562 10723. Be interesting to see if it happens.

HTH
Mark

 

[sprinterguy]

This scrapping strategy seems bizarre. I'm assuming by "eight mark 3s" it will actually be, essentially, the spare half-set, so two mark 2s and the six mark 3s listed above. That leaves precious little resilience in the fleet (They'd actually be short of sleepers) at a time when they've already been experiencing stock shortages, with no replacements expected in service for at least another couple of months.

 

[47271]

This scrapping strategy seems bizarre. I'm assuming by "eight mark 3s" it will actually be, essentially, the spare half-set, so two mark 2s and the six mark 3s listed above. That leaves precious little resilience in the fleet (They'd actually be short of sleepers) at a time when they've already been experiencing stock shortages, with no replacements expected in service for at least another couple of months.

Maybe they've decided that they can gamble on any repairs on those 'spare' vehicles being uneconomic balanced with getting the new stock running on the Lowlander before they start being really busy in the spring. What could possibly go wrong...

I'm not surprised by mk3 sleepers getting the chop sooner or later but surely there must be some sort of market better than scrap for a serviceable or near serviceable mk2?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This scrapping strategy seems bizarre. I'm assuming by "eight mark 3s" it will actually be, essentially, the spare half-set, so two mark 2s and the six mark 3s listed above. That leaves precious little resilience in the fleet (They'd actually be short of sleepers) at a time when they've already been experiencing stock shortages, with no replacements expected in service for at least another couple of months.

Is the delay to the new stock putting them into financial difficulties so they can't afford to continue leasing them?

Does anyone see a collapse imminent, and presumably a nationalisation by the Scottish Government who would never let the service fold? Might the Mk5s never enter service?

 

[47271]

Is the delay to the new stock putting them into financial difficulties so they can't afford to continue leasing them?

Does anyone see a collapse imminent, and presumably a nationalisation by the Scottish Government who would never let the service fold? Might the Mk5s never enter service?

For sure they'll be losing money for Serco just now but I'm not hearing anything more dramatic than that. They're generally stable in day to day operation, and far more so than Scotrail at the moment, although the only reports I get on loadings are from the Inverness section of the Highlander.

Whether their business model is sustainable is a completely different matter of course. If I had a hunch then it's that they've got their fingers in their ears until the new sets have been running for a few months this summer in the hopes that the business will be transformed. If not, God knows...

Can I repeat a question I asked upthread, sorry? When did a mk5 test set last make it north of Edinburgh?

 

[Drumtochty]

There were some Mk5 coaches on the West Highland line last summer but they did not get up to Fort William if my memory is correct.

 

[ScottDarg]

Can I repeat a question I asked upthread, sorry? When did a mk5 test set last make it north of Edinburgh?

Last time the Mk.5s were North of Edinburgh was 18/11/2018, though I believe this was to do with a publicity thing rather than a test/training/mileage accumulation run.

They've also yet to venture South of Lancaster

 

[TimboM]

This scrapping strategy seems bizarre. I'm assuming by "eight mark 3s" it will actually be, essentially, the spare half-set, so two mark 2s and the six mark 3s listed above. That leaves precious little resilience in the fleet (They'd actually be short of sleepers) at a time when they've already been experiencing stock shortages, with no replacements expected in service for at least another couple of months.

It's 6 (or possibly 8) Porterbrook Mk3s going for scrap this week. NO Mk2s - they're owned by someone else and several of them at least have a different future...

They have all been in service very recently, but all are due major exams which are not economically viable to proceed with this close to them being withdrawn from service. Hence, Serco are sending them off lease and with no buyers to stump up the c.£10k each for them (and removal costs, major exam costs etc) they're heading for Booths.

In the Off-Peak season the Sleepers typically run as Load 14 each year anyway whilst coaches are taken out of circulation for repair/maintenance. i.e. 2x Mk3s from 4 sets not required = 8 Mk3s... which is approximately how many are being scrapped or already have gone (I think it was three that went already last year).

This indicates a reasonable degree of confidence/optimism that at least the Lowlander will be Mk5s before the Off-Peak season ends.

 

[sprinterguy]

It's 6 (or possibly 8) Porterbrook Mk3s going for scrap this week. NO Mk2s - they're owned by someone else and several of them at least have a different future...

They have all been in service very recently, but all are due major exams which are not economically viable to proceed with this close to them being withdrawn from service. Hence, Serco are sending them off lease and with no buyers to stump up the c.£10k each for them (and removal costs, major exam costs etc) they're heading for Booths.

In the Off-Peak season the Sleepers typically run as Load 14 each year anyway whilst coaches are taken out of circulation for repair/maintenance. i.e. 2x Mk3s from 4 sets not required = 8 Mk3s... which is approximately how many are being scrapped or already have gone (I think it was three that went already last year).

This indicates a reasonable degree of confidence/optimism that at least the Lowlander will be Mk5s before the Off-Peak season ends.

Ah fair enough, I only had my own presumptions to go on.

Many thanks for the clarification.

 

[47271]

It's 6 (or possibly 8) Porterbrook Mk3s going for scrap this week. NO Mk2s - they're owned by someone else and several of them at least have a different future...

They have all been in service very recently, but all are due major exams which are not economically viable to proceed with this close to them being withdrawn from service. Hence, Serco are sending them off lease and with no buyers to stump up the c.£10k each for them (and removal costs, major exam costs etc) they're heading for Booths.

In the Off-Peak season the Sleepers typically run as Load 14 each year anyway whilst coaches are taken out of circulation for repair/maintenance. i.e. 2x Mk3s from 4 sets not required = 8 Mk3s... which is approximately how many are being scrapped or already have gone (I think it was three that went already last year).

This indicates a reasonable degree of confidence/optimism that at least the Lowlander will be Mk5s before the Off-Peak season ends.

Thanks, very clear, and a much better way of putting it than my assumptions and speculation!

So they're either very confident or wildly optimistic that they can get the Lowlander running with mk5s before they get busy for Easter. Given that a mk5 has never been to Fort William (is that what we're saying?) then the Highlander feels to be a long way off yet.

 

[Mag_seven]

Details for anyone who is interested:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03861/2019/01/16/advanced

I believe this is now happening tomorrow night now (Thursday 17th) rather than tonight.

 

[gsnedders]

Thanks, very clear, and a much better way of putting it than my assumptions and speculation!

So they're either very confident or wildly optimistic that they can get the Lowlander running with mk5s before they get busy for Easter. Given that a mk5 has never been to Fort William (is that what we're saying?) then the Highlander feels to be a long way off yet.

Even a single Lowlander runnings Mk5s frees up plenty of Mk3 stock to keep the rest going once it's peak season.

 

[Highlandspring]

Given that a mk5 has never been to Fort William (is that what we're saying?) then the Highlander feels to be a long way off yet.

Can you explain why you think a mk5 needs to go to Fort William (or Inverness, Aberdeen or Euston) before they enter passenger service?

 

[Sleeperwaking]

Can you explain why you think a mk5 needs to go to Fort William (or Inverness, Aberdeen or Euston) before they enter passenger service?

It would be a good idea to take a set on each Highlander route to check the interface with the main stations, and maybe if required for traincrew familiarisation. However, I don't think that would be particularly time consuming or onerous.

 

[GrimShady]

All looks very nice, though the gloss white panels in the twin bunk room makes it look a bit Spartan - surprised another colour wasn't chosen.

Agreed!

Deep greens, purples or blues would seem appropriate. The whole look is very, very bright for an overnight train.

 

[47271]

Even a single Lowlander runnings Mk5s frees up plenty of Mk3 stock to keep the rest going once it's peak season.

I'm talking about a single Lowlander achieved in time for Easter. I'm sure it'll be fine.

Can you explain why you think a mk5 needs to go to Fort William (or Inverness, Aberdeen or Euston) before they enter passenger service?

Maybe they don't need to bother then. I'm sure it'll be fine.

Everything's fine then.