Caledonian Sleeper

[XAM2175]

Which is why CS should sort out this issue in the seats - it ought to be a no-brainer!

Has anybody actually complained to them about it? Their response would be interesting to see, if nothing else.

 

[tigerroar]

I'm with @Bletchleyite here. I'll only take the overnight sleeper bus if (a) there's no other option; or (b) I don't have to be awake and alert the next day. I wouldn't say I get zero sleep but what sleep I do get isn't really useful. I've not done the Sleeper seats in the new stock but I can't see how it wouldn't be better than the bus.

I've seen a few youtubers videos of these buses, looks awful. Is there no scope to have buses with beds on, like band tour buses? I'd pay for that!

 

[northernrail2009]

I've seen a few youtubers videos of these buses, looks awful. Is there no scope to have buses with beds on, like band tour buses? I'd pay for that!

Mesgabus did years ago on the Scotland to London route but they gave up on that but not sure what the reason was.

 

[BRX]

Has anybody actually complained to them about it? Their response would be interesting to see, if nothing else.

I did just a few weeks ago, after my first trip on the new seats. The response was something something about health and safety, but that my feedback would be passed along to see if anything could be done. Maybe I will try and chase it up some day.

 

[jagardner1984]

Mesgabus did years ago on the Scotland to London route but they gave up on that but not sure what the reason was.

There were Two versions of this service - one a bendy bus single decker which had triple stacked bunks behind a few seats (which were really tight) but weirdly you were also allocated a seat (I think it was 12 seats perhaps). And then some further seats just behind for regular passengers

Then a version of the megabus gold - where the luxury coach was converted from day to night use.

Megabus said there was insufficient market - there are various sizes of “band” tour bus - with Caledonian sleeper now running at capacity quite often - I wonder if this might be revisited by some operator at some point. Makes you wonder if you had a 12 or 16 berth smaller bus, and you pitched the cost somewhere between the sleeper seats and the sleeper classic; whether there would perhaps be money to be made, even as a trial in the Edinburgh festival season ? With the timings, Glasgow via Edinburgh or Edinburgh via Glasgow does not seem an impossibility.

It also makes you wonder whether in the interests of revenue maximisation - in the future whether CS might consider methods of achieving greater flexibility in the half sets - eg by for example shifting some of the Glasgow portion to Edinburgh for the Festival, or Aberdeen portion to Fort William for the peak tourist season.

 

[najaB]

It also makes you wonder whether in the interests of revenue maximisation - in the future whether CS might consider methods of achieving greater flexibility in the half sets - eg by for example shifting some of the Glasgow portion to Edinburgh for the Festival, or Aberdeen portion to Fort William for the peak tourist season.

They already do the latter. Aberdeen gets one fewer coach and Fort William gains.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

They already do the latter. Aberdeen gets one fewer coach and Fort William gains.

In peak season it is plus two to Fort William and minus two on the Aberdeen, a 4 / 2 split instead of 2 / 4 although sometimes 3 / 3 outside of peaks.

 

[John Bishop]

This is my last post on the topic but when did you last experience the overnight Megabus and the Sleeper seats?
The Megabus departs Buchanan St bus station next door to Queen St at 23.30 every night of the week.
Mon to Fri the Sleeper departs 10 mins later from central, Sundays it departs 90 mins earlier and there is no Saturday service at all.
The Megabus is scheduled to arrive at Victoria at 7.30am but this allows for a 45 min driver break at Lancaster services wheras in practise its a 10 min changeover and also for overnight motorway closures. In practise Ive never arrived late and the normal is a pre 0700 arrival. The sleeper arrives in Euston at 07.07 again will be earlier especially on Monday morning. Sameish in the Northbound service. "Much slower to boot", I dont think so.

Hardly a compelling or convincing argument to persuade me to try the bus over the sleeper.

 

[xotGD]

Is the Megabus hauled by a Class 92? I think not!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Mesgabus did years ago on the Scotland to London route but they gave up on that but not sure what the reason was.

I did use it once and was quite impressed, it was basically a YHA on wheels, but apparently there wasn't enough of a market for it as the coach market is rock bottom budget.

They're common in places like India.

 

[Techniquest]

Is the Megabus hauled by a Class 92? I think not!

You have given me the image of a 92 hauling coaching stock in MegaTrain livery, and now I'm picturing a 92 in the blue and yellow livery. Actually looks quite good in my head!

Mind you, a 92 may be expensive to lease/operate, and outside the limits of a Megabus-style operation. How about a 2+2 321 instead, now that could work well for a budget sleeper option! 2 coaches of which could be seated sleeper, one with a small number of basic berths and one coach for a buffet counter area.

Not that I'd book such a train myself, but you'd have to wonder if it sold at the right price whether it would work!

As for the Megabus Gold sleeper coaches, I did it once and thankfully I was booked on the sleeper train back south. I didn't enjoy the experience at all!

 

[najaB]

As for the Megabus Gold sleeper coaches, I did it once and thankfully I was booked on the sleeper train back south. I didn't enjoy the experience at all!

Same here. Worst travel experience I've ever had.

 

[Facing Back]

Same here. Worst travel experience I've ever had.

What was wrong with it?

 

[XAM2175]

I did just a few weeks ago, after my first trip on the new seats. The response was something something about health and safety, but that my feedback would be passed along to see if anything could be done. Maybe I will try and chase it up some day.

Yeah, as is to be expected. I still think it's worth a wee bit of gentle pressure all the same, if you're willing. Unless that level of lighting is explicitly specified in the PRM TSI (or PRM NTSN, the post-Brexit copy-paste) it'd be nice to think there's maybe some wiggle room.

(and yes, I have tried to check the NTSN, but it just points to Point 4.1.2 of EN 13272:2012 and I don't have quite that much spare coin.)

 

[Techniquest]

Same here. Worst travel experience I've ever had.

I've had some unpleasant ones, I wouldn't say it was my worst one but it is definitely up there. The worst I remember is some rather nasty turbulence over Iceland on my way to LA a few years ago. Thankfully of course that didn't last too long, but it was very unpleasant!

In response to @Facing Back I don't thankfully remember a lot about the experience, but I do remember the company advertising a much nicer service than what I got. The reality was double-deck beds, admittedly on a modern vehicle so the condition was decent, with no storage space and it being a bit too cramped for my liking. The bedding was not even close to good enough, and it was uncomfortable. It also didn't help I was right at the back, so I had engine noise too. The motorway noise was clearer than desired too.

The promised breakfast was a bottle of orange juice and a 7 Days croissant. No hot drinks available, which sucked badly as it was a bit chilly in Glasgow. Quite, I think the juice may have been a small box actually, not a bottle. I don't remember how much I paid for Megabus Gold, but it wasn't too cheap and was 100% not worth it. A narrow and uncomfortable bed and all the road noise, no thanks I'd rather take my chance on a seat!

It surprised me not at all when the operation finished, it was poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Same here. Worst travel experience I've ever had.

On that trip I went up on the sleeper coach and back in a single room on the Cally. Up cost £25, back cost £250! I slept better on the coach. I think the reason was the longitudinal beds - transverse means steep curves wake me up when the blood goes to my head, and there are plenty on the WCML.

Best kip I had on a vehicle was one of DB's Talgos with longitudinal couchettes.

 

[tigerroar]

I've had some unpleasant ones, I wouldn't say it was my worst one but it is definitely up there. The worst I remember is some rather nasty turbulence over Iceland on my way to LA a few years ago. Thankfully of course that didn't last too long, but it was very unpleasant!

In response to @Facing Back I don't thankfully remember a lot about the experience, but I do remember the company advertising a much nicer service than what I got. The reality was double-deck beds, admittedly on a modern vehicle so the condition was decent, with no storage space and it being a bit too cramped for my liking. The bedding was not even close to good enough, and it was uncomfortable. It also didn't help I was right at the back, so I had engine noise too. The motorway noise was clearer than desired too.

The promised breakfast was a bottle of orange juice and a 7 Days croissant. No hot drinks available, which sucked badly as it was a bit chilly in Glasgow. Quite, I think the juice may have been a small box actually, not a bottle. I don't remember how much I paid for Megabus Gold, but it wasn't too cheap and was 100% not worth it. A narrow and uncomfortable bed and all the road noise, no thanks I'd rather take my chance on a seat!

It surprised me not at all when the operation finished, it was poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented!

That's a shame because given the choice I can guarantee I'm more likely to sleep lying down than sitting

 

[VC00]

Which is why CS should sort out this issue in the seats - it ought to be a no-brainer!

Apparently its to do with safety when I asked, the massive

Flixbus could be an option and book the seat next to you. I am thinking of trying the Sleeper seats again, I always opt for the solo seat.

National Express is good, with a coach card it costs around £20 each way

 

[najaB]

What was wrong with it?

As @Techniquest says it was bunk-style beds. I had the lower one which had very limited room - quite claustrophobia inducing really. And there was a support bar or similar that the thin padding did nothing to hide which, because of the very limited space, I couldn't manage to find a position where it wasn't digging into my back.

So add cramped and painful to the points raised above.

 

[Facing Back]

I've had some unpleasant ones, I wouldn't say it was my worst one but it is definitely up there. The worst I remember is some rather nasty turbulence over Iceland on my way to LA a few years ago. Thankfully of course that didn't last too long, but it was very unpleasant!

In response to @Facing Back I don't thankfully remember a lot about the experience, but I do remember the company advertising a much nicer service than what I got. The reality was double-deck beds, admittedly on a modern vehicle so the condition was decent, with no storage space and it being a bit too cramped for my liking. The bedding was not even close to good enough, and it was uncomfortable. It also didn't help I was right at the back, so I had engine noise too. The motorway noise was clearer than desired too.

The promised breakfast was a bottle of orange juice and a 7 Days croissant. No hot drinks available, which sucked badly as it was a bit chilly in Glasgow. Quite, I think the juice may have been a small box actually, not a bottle. I don't remember how much I paid for Megabus Gold, but it wasn't too cheap and was 100% not worth it. A narrow and uncomfortable bed and all the road noise, no thanks I'd rather take my chance on a seat!

It surprised me not at all when the operation finished, it was poorly thought out and even more poorly implemented!

Many thanks.

Its a shame but perhaps not surprising. I fly a lot and have done for about 35 years and I've seen the way that airline offerings have improved to the point (or perhaps I have too) where I can get a good night's sleep on certain routes with certain carriers - but they have invested hugely and the competition is ferocious - neither is true here I guess.

I don't know how the bus tickets were priced, but good bedding costs bugger all and makes all the difference in the world - and adding a couple of quid for a decent breakfast and a cup of coffee - really? I'll catch the last flight and stay in a hotel close to where I am going...

As @Techniquest says it was bunk-style beds. I had the lower one which had very limited room - quite claustrophobia inducing really. And there was a support bar or similar that the thin padding did nothing to hide which, because of the very limited space, I couldn't manage to find a position where it wasn't digging into my back.

So add cramped and painful to the points raised above.

Thanks for the info. Earlier on this thread, or a completely different thread, or perhaps a parallel universe as its now quite late and wine has featured in the evening, somebody mentioned one of the european rail operators offering a capsule hotel experience which I'm planning to try when I can - I do hope it is not like the experience you've described

 

[Techniquest]

That's a shame because given the choice I can guarantee I'm more likely to sleep lying down than sitting

As am I, but this was clearly not happening back then. I don't even recall when this was, it was some years ago but that should give an indication of how bad it was!

Thanks for the info. Earlier on this thread, or a completely different thread, or perhaps a parallel universe as its now quite late and wine has featured in the evening, somebody mentioned one of the european rail operators offering a capsule hotel experience which I'm planning to try when I can - I do hope it is not like the experience you've described

Ah I am familiar with the concept of the wine-induced multi-verse! A long time since I last did that of course, but the mind-bending and memory destroying abilities of wine I still remember. I just hope you were drinking something good!

I am certain it was this thread where capsule hotels were mentioned, and I have to say they sound horrible. I've not tried one, but the concept of a tiny capsule for even an hour is getting into nightmare fuel for me. A whole night in one and I'd rather take my chances on an overnight coach!

 

[jagardner1984]

Al Dalton reporting renationalisation of the sleeper franchise to be confirmed next week

Scotsman (requires sign in)

Trying to think the last time a public / OLR service ran into London Euston ?

 

[D6130]

Scotsman (requires sign in)

Unable to open that page unfortunately.

 

[realemil]

Al Dalton reporting renationalisation of the sleeper franchise to be confirmed next week

Scotsman (requires sign in)

Trying to think the last time a public / OLR service ran into London Euston ?

https://twitter.com/alastairdalton/status/1629400416537419778?s=46&t=xw2PX44_DOpqxUXQsg9X1w

The tweet by Alastair Dalton, transport correspondent:

Exclusive in @TheScotsman on Saturday: Caledonian Sleeper expected to be nationalised by SNP Scottish Government in announcement next week

Links to: https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...tionalised-by-snp-scottish-government-4041296 which appears to currently be offline.

Unable to open that page unfortunately.

Which may explain this.

 

[D6130]

Thanks for that @realemil .

 

[PG]

Al Dalton reporting renationalisation of the sleeper franchise to be confirmed next week

Scotsman (requires sign in)

Trying to think the last time a public / OLR service ran into London Euston ?

Full text from the article:

Caledonian Sleeper expected to be nationalised by SNP Scottish Government

The Caledonian Sleeper is expected to be nationalised by the Scottish Government, rail industry sources have told The Scotsman.


A statement by transport minister Jenny Gilruth to MSPs planned for Thursday is anticipated to confirm the overnight train service will switch to public hands, like ScotRail last year.The predicted move follows Ms Gilruth announcing in October that Serco’s 15-year franchise to run the Sleeper would be terminated seven years early after she rejected the company’s request for significantly increased funding to cover the rest of the contract as “not value for money”.

The minister left the door open for a new contract being awarded to the outsourcing firm, which also runs NorthLink Ferries, but this is believed to have been rejected.

It is understood there have been no discussions between the Scottish Government and Serco over another contract for the service which runs between Scotland and London.

The company has lost £69 million since the franchise began and is understood to have sought extra funding in the face of rising inflation and fuel costs.
The Rail, Maritime and Transport union, which represents many Sleeper staff, renewed its call for nationalisation on Friday after the impending statement was announced.
A senior union source said: “The implications appear to be that [nationalisation] is where we are heading. It makes sense. If Jenny Gilruth does not announce that, we will pile the pressure on.”
A senior rail industry source said of nationalisation: “It looks that way. The Sleeper team know nothing about what’s going to be announced, which would suggest that it’s not going to be a direct award.”
It is also understood that Serco believes it is the most likely outcome.
However, it is thought likely that the Sleeper would continue to be run as a separate entity rather than merged with ScotRail, from which it was split in 2015.
This could be by a Scottish Government “operator of last resort” similar to the one that has run ScotRail since last April and overseen by state-run Scottish Rail Holdings.

Sources said talks were about to start over the transfer of Sleeper staff from Serco under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations, known as Tupe.
However, it is thought the initial phase of this process would be preliminary, in case there was a change of Sleeper operation ownership.
RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said the service “should be run by the public and for the public”.
He said: “We have pressured the Scottish Government alongside politicians and others to do the right thing and take Caledonian Sleeper into public ownership.
“It is what our members on the service want and would be in the interests of the travelling public.”
However, the Scottish Conservatives said that would be the wrong course of action.
Transport spokesperson Graham Simpson said: “It’s no surprise that the militant RMT wants the well-run Sleeper service to be nationalised.
"That way they could hold the transport minister to ransom over that as well as the rest of the network.

"Jenny Gilruth needs to demonstrate that whatever she decides, it represents value for money for the taxpayer.”
But Neil Bibby, his Scottish Labour counterpart, said: "The franchise model has failed. It’s time to put an end to the inefficient and costly fragmentation of our railways and stop public money going to fund private profits.
"It’s time to bring the Caledonian Sleeper into public ownership and one ScotRail operator".
Mark Ruskell, transport spokesperson for the Scottish Greens, which is in a power-sharing deal with the ruling SNP, also backed nationalisation.
He said: “A publicly-owned Sleeper service, operated in the national interest and integrated with the rest of Europe, is an important part of building a ScotRail that works for both people and planet.
“As the climate crisis worsens, we need affordable, accessible, reliable alternatives to aviation. The best way to deliver that is to follow the lead of most European rail services, which are being run by nationalised rail companies with the vision and backing of their governments.”
The Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency declined to comment but referred to Ms Gilruth’s comments in a Holyrood debate last month, when she said her options were “a direct award of a new franchise agreement or the mobilisation of operator of last resort arrangements, as was undertaken for ScotRail”.
She told MSPs: “Work is well under way to consider those options...with the intent to deliver the best service for Caledonian Sleeper passengers and the best value for the people of Scotland.”

 

[AberdeenBill]

Full text from the article:

Are there any implications from the decision not to renew the Serco franchise (whilst it was 15 years i am assuming there was a 7 year review period / break clause)? I assume it will be a 'business as usual' running of the service on the same 'hotel; on wheels' type mode; that was operated by Serco. I don't think the pricing structure will change and i don't think there is much appetite for a return to the Mark 3 days of shared rooms. If one looks back (maybe with slightly Rose tinted glasses) apart from the upgrade in stock, which is much improved as far as the rooms are concerned, there is really nothing different in the service. It gets me from London to Scotland in an environmentally friendly manner and arrives at a good time in the morning to give me a full day ahead. If anything the layout of the lounge and the atmosphere created by the layout is not quite as good as it used to be in the 'old days'.

 

[Bald Rick]

It gets me from London to Scotland in an environmentally friendly manner and arrives at a good time in the morning to give me a full day ahead. If anything the layout of the lounge and the atmosphere created by the layout is not quite as good as it used to be in the 'old days'.

Depends which part of Scotland, but if you’re going to Aberdeen, there’s not much difference in the emissions created per passenger mile between a sleeper passenger and one travelling by EasyJet / BA.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Trying to think the last time a public / OLR service ran into London Euston ?

Last September with the various Network Rail organised LSL/WCRC reliefs for the Queen’s Mourning / Funeral.

 

[fgwrich]

Fingers crossed for some kind of return of the Bargain Berths. As long as the rest of it stays on as it is at present, I'll be fairly happy (It's just a shame they cant do anything about those horrendous track friendly bogies underneath the Mk5s!).