Cambrian hourly service consultation

[kieron]

A couple of additional Gerald-style sets would be all that's needed to provide Cambrian stock though. Just put LHCS on the two busiest MAN - North Wales diagrams and use the released 175s between Holyhead and Chester to release the 158s from that section of Holyhead-Birmingham.

Would a Gerald-style set be able to manage the timings for Manchester-Llandudno? Just comparing the 0533 from Holyhead with the following service, it loses 30 seconds between Llandudno Junction and Colwyn bay, 30 seconds between Flint and Chester, and a minute between Chester and Wrexham General (although the 0628 is slower overall as it calls at twice as many stations en route).

An hourly service from Cardiff to Holyhead is obviously more of a priority for those in Cardiff Bay than an hourly service from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth (sadly).

I don't think we're likely to see any progress on that before 2018, either.

Perhaps the next committee to look at the Cambrian railway report will support the its recommendations, though.

 

[impster]

It's incredible really that the Welsh Government can so blatently move the goalposts by applying their own 'unique' interpretation to what are 4 relatively simply phrased recommendations though.

How are they allowed to get away with this. More specifically this is another gaff by the Minister who cocked it up as Health minister as well didn't she.

I hope the press pick up on this as well as mid Wales AMs and MPs.

 

[Rhydgaled]

An hourly service from Cardiff to Holyhead is obviously more of a priority for those in Cardiff Bay

I don't think we're likely to see any progress on that before 2018, either.

And of course Cardiff Bay have conflicting priorities for the north Wales coast. Come on WAG, can't you see it's a choice of wires for north Wales or hourly Cardiff-Holyhead trains? Well, unless you electrify the marches line and Shrewsbury-Birmingham too, the latter probably meaning you'd need to cut the Cambrian trains in two at Shrewsbury. That'd be a lot of mileage to wire.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's incredible really that the Welsh Government can so blatently move the goalposts by applying their own 'unique' interpretation to what are 4 relatively simply phrased recommendations though.
How are they allowed to get away with this. More specifically this is another gaff by the Minister who cocked it up as Health minister as well didn't she.
I hope the press pick up on this as well as mid Wales AMs and MPs.

There's no stock, and if there was there is no money to pay for its operation.
What do you expect the WG to do?
Which existing services should be cut back to free up 2x158s for the Cambrian?
Turn existing services at New St rather than International?
Downgrade HOWL?

 

[Rhydgaled]

There's no stock

No DMU stock, but I believe there is still a small amount of LHCS stock.

there is no money to pay for its operation.

That's more the problem I think. If I had to choose between improving rail services or maintaining existing levels of bus coverage (which looks like being slashed in 2014) I'd say the first priority is maintaining what we have.

What do you expect the WG to do?
Which existing services should be cut back to free up 2x158s for the Cambrian?
Turn existing services at New St rather than International?
Downgrade HOWL?

Money permitting, my suggestion would be as I've already stated several times. Turn the Birmingham - Holyhead 158s back to Birmingham at Chester, using 175s between Holyhead and Chester. 175s would be released by using LHCS on the busiest ATW Manchester diagrams (probably the north Wales ones as south Wales ones have average loadings reduced by the quieter section west of Swansea).

 

[impster]

There's no stock, and if there was there is no money to pay for its operation.
What do you expect the WG to do?
Which existing services should be cut back to free up 2x158s for the Cambrian?
Turn existing services at New St rather than International?
Downgrade HOWL?

The money IS there if the Minister decides it's needed. I have this on very good authority from 2 very senior civil servants.

ATW could find stock for the Cambrian - and let's face it, the Cambrian has not been allowed to develop so I could argue back to you that we've had cuts from development for a long time. Interesting what ATW have planned for some 158 units (ERTMS equipped obviously) which they are 'finding' down in south west Wales. They are able to find them there.

As for what I expect the WG to do - well, I certainly don't expect them to chop and change recommendations from a report they commissioned just because the answer doesn't suit them.

Not interested in arguing about reasons why things CAN'T be done really. That's mostly what's wrong in the UK today.

 

[tbtc]

The money IS there if the Minister decides it's needed

They seemed to find fifty two million quid fairly quickly when there was an airport to buy...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They seemed to find fifty two million quid fairly quickly when there was an airport to buy...

That's capital - different animal.
Now Gerald or the air service...

 

[Llanigraham]

The money IS there if the Minister decides it's needed. I have this on very good authority from 2 very senior civil servants.

ATW could find stock for the Cambrian - and let's face it, the Cambrian has not been allowed to develop so I could argue back to you that we've had cuts from development for a long time. Interesting what ATW have planned for some 158 units (ERTMS equipped obviously) which they are 'finding' down in south west Wales. They are able to find them there.

As for what I expect the WG to do - well, I certainly don't expect them to chop and change recommendations from a report they commissioned just because the answer doesn't suit them.

Not interested in arguing about reasons why things CAN'T be done really. That's mostly what's wrong in the UK today.

So please tell us where this wonderful stock for the Cambrian is supposed to be?

 

[PHILIPE]

Gerald from Dec 9th is being put on the busiest North Wales service of the day,the 1716 ex Cardiff. Anyone know what stock is being used for the new Holyhead/Llanelli via Wrexham & return to Chester? on the same day, a 175?

Yes. A 175. Just swaps from the 17 21 Cardiff to Holyhead and goes through to Llanelli instead of sitting at Canton.

 

[Rhydgaled]

So please tell us where this wonderful stock for the Cambrian is supposed to be?

When I was 'commuting' on an almost-weekly basis between AYW and MAN last winter there was nearly always a large number of mrk2 aircons outside Crewe. There are probably a few off-lease mrk3s left from wherever ATW/WAG got the current Gerald stock and wasn't Scotrail likely to release some mrk2s at the end of the franchise? The mrk2s ATW had for old Gerald could perhaps be hired back also.

Just comes down to money, but even if funding is ready I wouldn't be supprised if implementation cannot happen before the May 2015 timetable.

 

[PHILIPE]

I have decided to close my ears and eyes to continual sugestions that LHCS can be used. It is not going to and it would be better if people made their suggestions with out this all the timeto the point it can be rather tiring.

 

[Llanigraham]

When I was 'commuting' on an almost-weekly basis between AYW and MAN last winter there was nearly always a large number of mrk2 aircons outside Crewe. There are probably a few off-lease mrk3s left from wherever ATW/WAG got the current Gerald stock and wasn't Scotrail likely to release some mrk2s at the end of the franchise? The mrk2s ATW had for old Gerald could perhaps be hired back also.

Just comes down to money, but even if funding is ready I wouldn't be supprised if implementation cannot happen before the May 2015 timetable.

1) AYM??

2) How many times does it need saying?? Loco hauled stock will NOT be used on the Cambrian. Firstly because other than the 2 "tractors" there are no ERTMS equipped locos, and secondly there are a few speed restrictions that only apply to them that knock any timetabling.

 

[Rhydgaled]

1) AYM??

AYW, three letter station code for Aberystwyth.

2) How many times does it need saying?? Loco hauled stock will NOT be used on the Cambrian. Firstly because other than the 2 "tractors" there are no ERTMS equipped locos, and secondly there are a few speed restrictions that only apply to them that knock any timetabling.

But I'm not suggesting using the LHCS on the Cambrian (anymore). The solution, as I see it, is to use the LHCS on North Wales - Manchester workings to release 175s. Then use 175s between Chester and Holyhead to release 158s.

And correction there are 4 ERTMS locos rather than 2.

I have decided to close my ears and eyes to continual sugestions that LHCS can be used. It is not going to.

It isn't going to be used on the Cambrian, yes, I get that now. If it isn't going to be used anywhere then I can't see how to release DMUs for the Cambrian, without unsuitable stock ending up in more places, unless Scotland's electrification releases 158s and the Wales & Borders franchise gets them, or somebody orders a new fleet of bi-mode 444/158-alikes

 

[krus_aragon]

How many times does it need saying?? Loco hauled stock will NOT be used on the Cambrian. Firstly because other than the 2 "tractors" there are no ERTMS equipped locos, and secondly there are a few speed restrictions that only apply to them that knock any timetabling.

I take your speed restriction point, but weren't there four 37s converted for ERTMS use?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Looking at my 2009 copy of the franchise agreement I am reminded that the franchise holders obligations are to run the Passenger Service Requirement which is basically the winter 95/96 BR tt with some tweaks to reflect the franchise boundaries. Whilst the standard pattern timetable was a franchise commitment to be introduced what that entailed was never written into it. ATW often claim they run 20% more trains than the franchise had to and that's why, the SPT services introduced in Dec05 are not written into it.

I think many people assume that the current pattern cannot be altered this is incorrect ATW are only obliged to run the PSR trains that are specified. Therefore ATW does have some degree of flexibility to change services. If the £ is right for them.

 

[jones_bangor]

ERTMS is turning out to be a hindrance for the Cambrian lines in terms of stock availability.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The joint line liaison committee due this month has been postponed due to the number of meetings the Chair and Secretary of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Line Liaison committee are attending in Cardiff with the ongoing work following on from the survey.

 

[merlodlliw]

The joint line liaison committee due this month has been postponed due to the number of meetings the Chair and Secretary of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Line Liaison committee are attending in Cardiff with the ongoing work following on from the survey.

Am I correct in thinking the Chair is a Shropshire Cllr? out of interest

Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

Am I correct in thinking the Chair is a Shropshire Cllr? out of interest

Bob

Mansell Williams his interest westward may be due to his heritage, Belle Vue Shrewsbury is his ward.

 

[merlodlliw]

Mansell Williams his interest westward may be due to his heritage, Belle Vue Shrewsbury is his ward.

Thanks Gareth, I now know who the Secretary is.

A busy pair . Dee/Seven partnership(Wrexham line).Cambrian line liaison Committee & Marches Line Liaison committee.

Pity politics prevent him from speaking out in support of better Dee/Seven infrastructure in the Wrexham Area.Nice chap.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thanks Gareth, I now know who the Secretary is.

A busy pair . Dee/Seven partnership(Wrexham line).Cambrian line liaison Committee & Marches Line Liaison committee.

Pity politics prevent him from speaking out in support of better Dee/Seven infrastructure in the Wrexham Area.Nice chap.

Robert Robinson is only involved with the Cambrian.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Fact- traincrew on the Cambrian have been telling passengers the hourly service will start in December 2014 over the last couple of days
Likely Source- I'm told though haven't seen that Machynlleth depot have draft tt and diagrams for December 2014.

speculation- over to you folks!

 

[merlodlliw]

Fact- traincrew on the Cambrian have been telling passengers the hourly service will start in December 2014 over the last couple of days
Likely Source- I'm told though haven't seen that Machynlleth depot have draft tt and diagrams for December 2014.

speculation- over to you folks!

Indeed this is new,Ill ask my contacts in Welsh Government,who are be paying for this,one wonders where the top slicing will come from to pay for it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Indeed this is new,Ill ask my contacts in Welsh Government,who are be paying for this,one wonders where the top slicing will come from to pay for it.

The Implementation group are denying its come from them. Though all my sources are saying its coming out of ATW.

 

[tbtc]

Would there be a spare unit found in the Fishguard area by that time, by any chance?

 

[The Informer]

Its happening alright. Welshpool loop will be a hive of activity again over the next few weeks along with Tallerdig. Some parts of the infrastructure still needs altering/improving to take the hourly service.

 

[The Planner]

Must have found out what is needed to get the single line occupation down then.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Its happening alright. Welshpool loop will be a hive of activity again over the next few weeks along with Tallerdig. Some parts of the infrastructure still needs altering/improving to take the hourly service.

I thought the last update was that Network Rail had said the linespeed works etc. necessary to take the hourly service were to be complete by December 2013?

Would there be a spare unit found in the Fishguard area by that time, by any chance?

The 'additional' unit found to run the Fishguard trial, at least initially, was a 150 if I remember correctly. I do wonder where two 158s will be found for the hourly Cambrian service if it really is going ahead in December. I personally cannot see how it can be done without unacceptable downgrades to some services without WAG obtaining additional (suitable) stock of some description (hired in SWT 158s, since they seem to be able to hire out units to FirstGW?)

 

[Starmill]

Sounds like a pleasant turn of events Is Welshpool the one which has two platforms, only one of which is used at present? By extension, if the hourly service goes ahead, they will need to use both?