Cambrian hourly service consultation

[berneyarms]

I really can't see Machynlleth being retained as the changing point - the timings on the mainline strike me as just far too tight, particularly with three crossings on every trip.

Operationally Dovey Junction makes far more sense, and particularly given the investment that has been made there.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Dovey has always been frowned upon as a changing point due to the lack of facilities (though if a coast train is sat there waiting then it provides light, heat and toilets). It may still come to that though.

On odd concept lack of facilities for interchange passengers yet the set up at Dyfi Junction is as good as what joining passengers have at 90% of stations in Wales! Try Craven Arms that doesn't stop passengers interchanging!

However givens the likely tt the 3 units will arrive and depart within 10/12 minutes of each other, it's not like they'll be passengers deposited for over an hour unless they misread the tt and get a mainline train that doesn't have a coast connection.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Dovey has always been frowned upon as a changing point due to the lack of facilities

Didn't stop Pembrokeshire moving bus 'connections' from Fishguard Harbour to Fishguard & Goodwick when the latter openned, sadly. (Fishguard Harbour has toilets and interior waiting area, Fishguard & Goodwick has a bus shelter and that's it).

 

[Parallel]

Yeah, when I went up to the Cambrian coast from Aberystwyth, I got the impression that the guard wasn't too keen on me getting off there, the problem is that it's really quite isolated so should someone need assistance there or an emergency happens, it might be a while before anyone can get there (not to mention the autoannouncements and departure screens seem to frequently crash at this station). In terms of timings, Dovey Junction makes sense, but in the sense of staffing, facilities etc Machynlleth makes more sense. I think they will try and do anything they can to retain Machynlleth as the main changing point IMO.

 

[The Planner]

Dont shoot the messenger! That wasnt NR driven, from what i recall hearing, it was more the WG side of it that didnt like it.

 

[merlodlliw]

Excellent two hour drama series on BBC 1 Wales every Monday night from 2100 to around 2320(news break), last night this detective series about the fictitious Cambria Police, was based on Borth,filmed within the station and surrounding area, several 158s were seen passing over river bridges.
The series is called Hinterland.
As this is the Cambrian thread I thought Id make you aware of the station & trains used. I am sure its on I Player now.


Bob

 

[berneyarms]

Yeah, when I went up to the Cambrian coast from Aberystwyth, I got the impression that the guard wasn't too keen on me getting off there, the problem is that it's really quite isolated so should someone need assistance there or an emergency happens, it might be a while before anyone can get there (not to mention the autoannouncements and departure screens seem to frequently crash at this station). In terms of timings, Dovey Junction makes sense, but in the sense of staffing, facilities etc Machynlleth makes more sense. I think they will try and do anything they can to retain Machynlleth as the main changing point IMO.

Irish Rail have exactly the same situation at the remotely located Manulla Junction in Mayo, where passengers for the line to Ballina switch from the Dublin/Westport service. The station is unstaffed, and has no road access, being only a changeover point. And do you know what? It has worked perfectly.

We're talking about a cross platform interchange - not somewhere where there's going to be anything else happening.

People are unlikely to be waiting long times there - if there's a serious delay to the mainline train from Aberystwth, then the coast line train could still continue to Machynlleth given it will have over an hour before heading north again (assuming the current coast line timetable pattern is retained).

A large amount of money has been pumped into the station - it ought to be used!! Frankly the rest sounds like excuses and the H & S culture gone mad, rather than thinking practically.

 

[Squaddie]

Excellent two hour drama series on BBC 1 Wales every Monday night from 2100 to around 2320(news break), last night this detective series about the fictitious Cambria Police, was based on Borth,filmed within the station and surrounding area, several 158s were seen passing over river bridges.
The series is called Hinterland.
As this is the Cambrian thread I thought Id make you aware of the station & trains used. I am sure its on I Player now.

This series was shown on S4C last year, and I'm pretty sure there was some minor discussion of the rail-related locations at that time.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Excellent two hour drama series on BBC 1 Wales every Monday night from 2100 to around 2320(news break), last night this detective series about the fictitious Cambria Police, was based on Borth,filmed within the station and surrounding area, several 158s were seen passing over river bridges.

The series is called Hinterland.

Last night's episode was the last in the series they said.

Potential spoiler alert:
Borth station doesn't really have a basement does it? Surely if it did it would be underwater! And the model, brutally accurate in some details but the train on the model, a class 150 (no ETCS)!

This series was shown on S4C last year, and I'm pretty sure there was some minor discussion of the rail-related locations at that time.

Yes, I seem to recall a post with somebody commenting on how often the trains appear in the programme despite only running every two hours.

 

[merlodlliw]

Last night's episode was the last in the series they said.

Potential spoiler alert:
Borth station doesn't really have a basement does it? Surely if it did it would be underwater! And the model, brutally accurate in some details but the train on the model, a class 150 (no ETCS)!

The Company made four episodes in the series, so yes last nights was the last,the second series is now being filmed,as for the 150,I recall Centros Central trains running sprinters on the Cambrian,so not bad.
As the series is based on the fictional Cambria Police at Aberyswyth,I dont recall seeing the Railway Station at Aber in the series,perhaps next time.

Bob

 

[Greenback]

Yes, I seem to recall a post with somebody commenting on how often the trains appear in the programme despite only running every two hours.

Missed that as I only saw the first episode this year, but it seemed to me that trains were running over the single line level crossing every few minutes. I thought that a high frequency timetbale had been introduced ont eh Cambrian without any publicity!

 

[quarella]

Irish Rail have exactly the same situation at the remotely located Manulla Junction in Mayo, where passengers for the line to Ballina switch from the Dublin/Westport service. The station is unstaffed, and has no road access, being only a changeover point. And do you know what? It has worked perfectly.

We're talking about a cross platform interchange - not somewhere where there's going to be anything else happening.

People are unlikely to be waiting long times there - if there's a serious delay to the mainline train from Aberystwth, then the coast line train could still continue to Machynlleth given it will have over an hour before heading north again (assuming the current coast line timetable pattern is retained).

A large amount of money has been pumped into the station - it ought to be used!! Frankly the rest sounds like excuses and the H & S culture gone mad, rather than thinking practically.

Perhaps the Irish population is more tolerant of an imperfect system and would not be screaming for helicopter rescue etc when the train is delayed by ten minutes.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I dont recall seeing the Railway Station at Aber in the series,perhaps next time.

There were some black and white (CCTV) shots inside Aberystwyth station (platform and taxi rank entrance) on last night's episode.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Corrour station on Rannoch Moor is a place that I would not like to be stranded at...at any time of the year..:roll:

 

[transmanche]

This series was shown on S4C last year, and I'm pretty sure there was some minor discussion of the rail-related locations at that time.

That was the 'Welsh' version. The one shown on BBC One Wales (and all episodes are still available on the BBC iPlayer) was the 'English' version - which will also be shown nationally on BBC Four later this year.

 

[Muzer]

Were there separate versions recorded, or is one just dubbed? If the latter, you would presumably have been able to switch the language to English when watching on S4C...

 

[transmanche]

Were there separate versions recorded, or is one just dubbed? If the latter, you would presumably have been able to switch the language to English when watching on S4C...

Much of it is the same; the 'Welsh' version includes some English and vice versa. And of course some shots require no dialogue anyway.

The main difference is that the central character (DCI Mathias) is not a Welsh-speaker in the 'English' version - although there is still some subtitled Welsh dialogue. So yes, many scenes had to be recorded twice.

 

[Squaddie]

That was the 'Welsh' version. The one shown on BBC One Wales (and all episodes are still available on the BBC iPlayer) was the 'English' version - which will also be shown nationally on BBC Four later this year.

As I understand it, BBC4 is now reviewing its decision to broadcast the English-language version, and might instead show the Welsh version in its Saturday evening foreign drama slot.

 

[Muzer]

Hardly foreign!

 

[merlodlliw]

Were there separate versions recorded, or is one just dubbed? If the latter, you would presumably have been able to switch the language to English when watching on S4C...

As I understand it,most scenes were shot twice,for the two languages.
Certainly not dubbed.

There were some black and white (CCTV) shots inside Aberystwyth station (platform and taxi rank entrance) on last night's episode.

Indeed, I just meant like Borth in living colour.

Heres a link, guess the station in the photo http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03pqypt

 

[Llanigraham]

One of the extra's in the whole series is a friend of ours and he confirms what Merlodlliw above states. Each scene was recoded twice, once in Welsh and then immediately in English. There was no dubbing.
If you watched the series previously on S4C you would have only been able to get it in Welsh, but with English subtitles. They did not offer a simultaneous translation.
I understand that there is the probablity of another series.

 

[merlodlliw]

One of the extra's in the whole series is a friend of ours and he confirms what Merlodlliw above states. Each scene was recoded twice, once in Welsh and then immediately in English. There was no dubbing.
If you watched the series previously on S4C you would have only been able to get it in Welsh, but with English subtitles. They did not offer a simultaneous translation.
I understand that there is the probablity of another series.

Finally. Good news.

S4C's Drama Commissioner, Gwawr Martha Lloyd, says:


"I'm pleased to confirm that there is more of Y Gwyll to come, and in time, we will announce further details about when the viewers can expect to see it on S4C.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yeah, when I went up to the Cambrian coast from Aberystwyth, I got the impression that the guard wasn't too keen on me getting off there, the problem is that it's really quite isolated so should someone need assistance there or an emergency happens, it might be a while before anyone can get there (not to mention the autoannouncements and departure screens seem to frequently crash at this station). In terms of timings, Dovey Junction makes sense, but in the sense of staffing, facilities etc Machynlleth makes more sense. I think they will try and do anything they can to retain Machynlleth as the main changing point IMO.

The osprey next and trespass to it from railway property is an added complication.
Mach is alright if your doing Coast to England however if your doing Coast to Aberystwyth or vice versa you want Dyfi Jnc to be the point as going to Mach adds at 15- 20 minutes to the journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dont shoot the messenger! That wasnt NR driven, from what i recall hearing, it was more the WG side of it that didnt like it.

Did the Welsh Government ask anyone who would be likely to do it? The local RUG and Railfuture branch have always said Dyfi Junction. Shottton, Craven Arms, Severn Tunnel Junction, Whitland, Abercynon, Clunderwen Road are all un staffed interchanges with bus shelters for facilities on ATW's network. Are these to be upgraded?

Sorry Planner I know your the messenger but whats behind WG's concern?

 

[The Planner]

Can't remember, this was years ago when the loops were going in and the WG probably weren't aware of the other instances, probably all changed now.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Shottton, Craven Arms, Severn Tunnel Junction, Whitland, Abercynon, Clunderwen Road are all un staffed interchanges with bus shelters for facilities on ATW's network.

Clarbeston Road should not be used as an interchange, although the connections there are same-platform and under 10mins anyway so acceptable in my opinion, provided trains wait if the connecting service is delayed (and I think they do, in that case). Whitland is a dreadful interchange, it really needs a waiting room but not looking likely sadly.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Interesting discussion on whether Dyfi Junction should be an interchange point. Depends on whether passengers are guaranteed somewhere to wait – if there is a train in the station awaiting connections, then there will also be staff on hand for any emergencies that arise, and a vehicle available for immediate rescue to the nearest road access point e.g. to get to an ambulance.

So, if it is arranged that a train ex Pwllheli arrives, awaits connections on the mainline in both directions, then departs back to Pwllheli, I don’t see any problem. No need for anyone to remain on the station after all three directions have been served.

The discussion sent me into my bookcase:

Modern Branch Line Album
Ian Allan
1980

“At the remote Dovey Junction beside the Dovey Estuary there are bursts of activity from time to time. This is where the two Cambrian routes to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli diverge. On the left is the 19.45 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth whilst on the right the 20.12 Machnylleth to Pwllheli, the last train of the day” (with picture).

So people managed it then! But there is a manned signal box (so staff on hand) and what may be a waiting room or shelter behind.

Then again, in
Stopping Train Britain
Hodder & Stoughton
1983

“The rising tide creeps over the track at Dovey Junction” (with picture).

 

[CardiffKid]

Excellent two hour drama series on BBC 1 Wales every Monday night from 2100 to around 2320(news break), last night this detective series about the fictitious Cambria Police, was based on Borth,filmed within the station and surrounding area, several 158s were seen passing over river bridges.
The series is called Hinterland.
As this is the Cambrian thread I thought Id make you aware of the station & trains used. I am sure its on I Player now.


Bob

when this was first shown my Twitter feed almost broke with the number of Mid Wales/Aber Uni Graduates saying things along the lines of, "Got to be fake, just saw five trains in one hour, that can't be Mid Wales"

 

[MidnightFlyer]

...

The discussion sent me into my bookcase:

Modern Branch Line Album
Ian Allan
1980

“At the remote Dovey Junction beside the Dovey Estuary there are bursts of activity from time to time. This is where the two Cambrian routes to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli diverge. On the left is the 19.45 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth whilst on the right the 20.12 Machnylleth to Pwllheli, the last train of the day” (with picture).

So people managed it then! But there is a manned signal box (so staff on hand) and what may be a waiting room or shelter behind.

Then again, in
Stopping Train Britain
Hodder & Stoughton
1983

“The rising tide creeps over the track at Dovey Junction” (with picture).

Back in the 70s and early 80s I believe Dovey Jn was staffed (as in by customer-facing staff), and there was a substantial building; both of which disappeared a long time ago.

Edit - this gives an indication of the passenger facilities http://myrailwaystation.com/RAILWAY STATIONS/images/DOVEY JUNCTION STATION 1987_jpg.jpg Whether it was staffed in the traditional sense or just by the signalman I can't tell.

 

[anthony263]

Perhaps a facility could be installed and manned at certain times

 

[berneyarms]

Interesting discussion on whether Dyfi Junction should be an interchange point. Depends on whether passengers are guaranteed somewhere to wait – if there is a train in the station awaiting connections, then there will also be staff on hand for any emergencies that arise, and a vehicle available for immediate rescue to the nearest road access point e.g. to get to an ambulance.

So, if it is arranged that a train ex Pwllheli arrives, awaits connections on the mainline in both directions, then departs back to Pwllheli, I don’t see any problem. No need for anyone to remain on the station after all three directions have been served.

If the current coast service pattern is maintained (every two hours passing at Tywyn and Harlech), then coast line trains would be sitting at Dovey Junction
for a little over an hour between services, arriving by my calculations just before the two mainline trains do.

Therefore the train would be sitting there whilst the first two mainline trains cross at Dovey and the second two mainline trains cross there also. Therefore there would be somewhere to wait if necessary - on the train!

They could then of course follow the mainline service to Machynlleth and return ahead of the next down service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I still find this obsession with having "facilities" and staff at the station somewhat bemusing.

Why would they be necessary if all of the trains are there simultaneously?

If there's an issue with a train running particularly late - then surely the on-board staff would advise passengers to remain on board and alight at Machynlleth? The coast line service having an hour to spare could continue into Machynlleth if necessary.

To again put this in perspective, Manulla Junction on the Dublin/Westport line in Ireland is an Intercity station that is solely used as a passenger changeover point between trains between Dublin and Westport and the branch line service to/from Ballina.

It was staffed from 1988 until 2007, when there was a portakabin signal box on the platform, but has been unstaffed ever since. It has no direct public access other than as a changeover point, and yet up to ten times a day trains connect here and people switch over from one to the other without an issue.

The station is even more basic than Dovey Junction (see photo here), with absolutely no facilities other than lights and it has worked perfectly.

I really think some people try to make railway operation far more complicated than it needs to be, for purely spurious reasons.