Class 153 discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
13,506
Location
Another planet...
Has any ROSCO produced a plan for making the modifications required for post-2019 use to the 153s?

Nothing official I think, though the 155 currently at Brodie's in Kilmarnock may shed some light on what's required and whit it'll cost. Keeping them as single-cars seems unlikely though.
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
Nothing official I think, though the 155 currently at Brodie's in Kilmarnock may shed some light on what's required and whit it'll cost. Keeping them as single-cars seems unlikely though.

I recall when Porterbrook produced glossy brochures for their trains, they detailed the essential and optional refurbishment options for the 155s but for the 153s they just described them in their current state and said something about it not being economically viable to keep them in service after 31st December 2019 as single car trains. Maybe after spending money on an ePacer to find new ITTs ruled out Pacers - they don't even want to have consultants looking at proposals for 153s unless operators/franchise bidders specifically express an interest in them?
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
13,506
Location
Another planet...
I recall when Porterbrook produced glossy brochures for their trains, they detailed the essential and optional refurbishment options for the 155s but for the 153s they just described them in their current state and said something about it not being economically viable to keep them in service after 31st December 2019 as single car trains. Maybe after spending money on an ePacer to find new ITTs ruled out Pacers - they don't even want to have consultants looking at proposals for 153s unless operators/franchise bidders specifically express an interest in them?

Probably wise... I wouldn't be surprised if growth outstrips the forecasting and Northern find themselves short of capacity, in which case a few extra 155s paired up would be useful. Also means they'd be less of a micro-fleet...
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
Probably wise... I wouldn't be surprised if growth outstrips the forecasting and Northern find themselves short of capacity, in which case a few extra 155s paired up would be useful. Also means they'd be less of a micro-fleet...

Would a 2 car 153 become a 155 again or would they have to keep it as a 153 or give it a new class number because of differences crew members would have to be aware of?
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
13,506
Location
Another planet...
Would a 2 car 153 become a 155 again or would they have to keep it as a 153 or give it a new class number because of differences crew members would have to be aware of?

I'm not sure what the rules are on this, or if there are any. For example the 175s are divided into sub-classes based on length, but 144s and 158s aren't. They wouldn't be identical to the West Yorkshire 7 so there would perhaps be a case for using the number range of 1556xx rather than the original 1553xx.
 

HLE

Established Member
Joined
27 Dec 2013
Messages
1,400
Or lock/remove the toilet permanently?
 

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
2,580
Location
University of Birmingham
At least 30 Class 153s will be off lease in a few years time. This means that you could get 15 2-car units made. What operators might need these?
 

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
2,580
Location
University of Birmingham
Has all the operators said they are going to Withdraw Class 153s?

Northern are releasing theirs (18), with 1 going to EMT. GWR are releasing theirs (14), with 6 going to London Midland, so their 150s can go to Northern. Greater Anglia are releasing theirs (5).
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,462
Location
Caerphilly
Northern are releasing theirs (18), with 1 going to EMT. GWR are releasing theirs (14), with 6 going to London Midland, so their 150s can go to Northern. Greater Anglia are releasing theirs (5).

GWR may be retaining 5 as has now been mentioned on the Forum several times. Different ROSCO.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
The most likely outcomes appear to be either reforming into two car units, or using them as permanent centre cars to strengthen other trains. They are compatible with all other 15x stock (as well as 14x and Turbostar units), but are limited to 75mph (as are 14x, 150 and 156).

It has supposedly been stated that too much seating capacity would be lost in adding a compliant toilet module. There are also suggestions that their bodyshells are sagging, however it remains unclear whether that is a genuine problem or just froth.

Assuming they are indeed structurally sound, I'd hazard a guess that reforming them back into 155s would be a likely outcome.
 
Last edited:

Johncleesefan

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
726
Eww, boxing them into other formations would be a nasty idea, I think they'd be better off staying as single for attatching when needed for strengh. Toilet issue just rip off half the seats from the carriage as is happening with most newer/refurb stuff anyway
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Eww, boxing them into other formations would be a nasty idea, I think they'd be better off staying as single for attatching when needed for strengh. Toilet issue just rip off half the seats from the carriage as is happening with most newer/refurb stuff anyway

The issue with that is the TOCs then needing to maintain a fleet of units which can't be used unless attached to something else. That isn't very flexible, and isn't the optimal use of the assets.
 

class387

Established Member
Joined
9 Oct 2015
Messages
1,475
Could they be reformed into 2 car 155s which can then be split and used to strengthen services by one car if needs be, providing the car with the toilet is used?
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
13,506
Location
Another planet...
There are a total of 84 Leyland Super-Sprinter vehicles in existence, forming 70 153s and 7 155s. This could of course form 28 3-car units with 1 accessible loo and one small one. With passenger numbers rising, this could be ideal as they could be sent to a single operator such as ATW where they'd be ideal for both Valley Lines and Pembrokeshire/Carmarthenshire services, along with Summer HOWL services, or EMT for Skegness, Lincoln etc. as well as strengthening Liverpool services (156s do so, so 75mph not a problem!)
 

gareth950

Member
Joined
3 Nov 2013
Messages
1,009
At least 30 Class 153s will be off lease in a few years time. This means that you could get 15 2-car units made. What operators might need these?

ATW, ATW, and ATW!!!! Or whoever is the next operator of the Wales and Borders franchise post 2018.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
6,908
The 153s would be different to the 155s even if reformed.

Extra (small) cabs in the middle unlike the as built Class 155.
 

richw

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
10,274
Location
Liskeard
Is there any official statement on that stated matter of "sagging bodyshells" rather than the forum supposition.

It has supposedly been stated that too much seating capacity would be lost in adding a compliant toilet module. There are also suggestions that their bodyshells are sagging, however it remains unclear whether that is a genuine problem or just froth..

A couple of GWR's if you look along the roofline its either sagging or a paintjob to look sagging. It is really obvious on a couple of them.

Is the only issue a DDA toilet? If so remove the toilet completely and then it doesn't need to comply there! The GWR 150s that have a DDA toilet, have lost a majority of seats in that portion of the coach, so probably a 25% reduction in seats in that coach.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
15,495
Location
West of Andover
My completely unbased-on-any-data prediction, that they will be reformed into 155s with only one half getting the required toilet mods, and end up in Wales as a short-gap solution to scrap the Welsh Pacers until such time as the Valleys have wires.
 

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,227
My completely unbased-on-any-data prediction, that they will be reformed into 155s with only one half getting the required toilet mods, and end up in Wales as a short-gap solution to scrap the Welsh Pacers until such time as the Valleys have wires.

Not sure there will be enough to withdraw all the pacers operated by ATW as they operate 30 2-carriage units in total. Would still be a capacity improvement if they just replace the 142s with the 153s/155s, and retain the 143s with mods though (+ take on the 8 GWR 143s)
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,462
Location
Caerphilly
My completely unbased-on-any-data prediction, that they will be reformed into 155s with only one half getting the required toilet mods, and end up in Wales as a short-gap solution to scrap the Welsh Pacers until such time as the Valleys have wires.

153s are not cleared to work north of Radyr, similar to 158s, being 26m stock. They would have to be confined to the Rhymney route. Coryton and as far as Radyr where they currently have diagrammed work also Barry Island and Penarth no problem.
 

Parallel

Established Member
Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,227
153s are not cleared to work north of Radyr, similar to 158s, being 26m stock. They would have to be confined to the Rhymney route. Coryton and as far as Radyr where they currently have diagrammed work also Barry Island and Penarth no problem.

Could they work other places 150s work, to free up more 150s for the valleys?
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
13,506
Location
Another planet...
The 153s would be different to the 155s even if reformed.

Extra (small) cabs in the middle unlike the as built Class 155.

They were built without the cabs, therefore the small cabs could surely be removed- even some of the big cabs if 3-car units are formed.
 
Last edited:

the sniper

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2007
Messages
2,854
wont they just be used as trailers and/or marshaled into 2 car trains?

This seems likely to me. At the very least I can see every two car LM/West Mids 170 (that isn't attached to another 170) running with a 153. It seems like the most easily implementable use for them anyway...
 

aformeruser

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
30,636
Not sure there will be enough to withdraw all the pacers operated by ATW as they operate 30 2-carriage units in total. Would still be a capacity improvement if they just replace the 142s with the 153s/155s, and retain the 143s with mods though (+ take on the 8 GWR 143s)

If EMT and LM withdraw their 153s (possible as there's 156s and 170s available) and GWR don't keep any 153s long term they'll be 60 x 153s available and ATW have 30 x Pacers.

I can see the ePacer running the Cardiff Bay shuttle in the future if no other Pacers are converted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The issue with that is the TOCs then needing to maintain a fleet of units which can't be used unless attached to something else. That isn't very flexible, and isn't the optimal use of the assets.

Which is probably why Arriva's Northern bid included securing extra 150s and creating 3 car sets over using 150+153 formations (as is currently the case on some lines.)
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,236
Northern are releasing theirs (18), with 1 going to EMT. GWR are releasing theirs (14), with 6 going to London Midland, so their 150s can go to Northern. Greater Anglia are releasing theirs (5).

What are Northern replacing theirs with??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The issue with that is the TOCs then needing to maintain a fleet of units which can't be used unless attached to something else. That isn't very flexible, and isn't the optimal use of the assets.

There is oittle use for single carriage trains these days maybe except some cornish branches

I do have fond memories of 153s on the looe branch though.

Seems ludicrous taking away a toilet scores points
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top