Class 171s

[Chrisgr31]

Was 171806 and a fibreglass front end was badly damaged.

Having just got got home on the last train after a convivial dinner can I say that my assumption is that the drivers are well protected behind some kind of crash structure and therefore dont get hurt in this sort of event.

It, in my opinion, goes without saying that in considering damage to the unit we always assume the driver has emerged unhurt. The damage to the unit is considered primarily on the basis that the driver is unhurt.

If the driver is hurt the obviously primary concern has to be with them.


Having said that what Class 171s are now in the depot being repaired?!

 

[455driver]

Having just got got home on the last train after a convivial dinner can I say that my assumption is that the drivers are well protected behind some kind of crash structure and therefore dont get hurt in this sort of event.

It, in my opinion, goes without saying that in considering damage to the unit we always assume the driver has emerged unhurt. The damage to the unit is considered primarily on the basis that the driver is unhurt.

If you consider us well protected when we are sitting in the crumple zone then I will reserve comment!
There might be a lot of metal there but it is designed to deform into the area occupied by the driver in the event of a significant impact!

 

[Fincra5]

If you consider us well protected when we are sitting in the crumple zone then I will reserve comment!
There might be a lot of metal there but it is designed to deform into the area occupied by the driver in the event of a significant impact!

Aye, the 377 cab is the crumple zone. From what I've been told. I'd imagine it was the same for 171s.

 

[physics34]

If you consider us well protected when we are sitting in the crumple zone then I will reserve comment!
There might be a lot of metal there but it is designed to deform into the area occupied by the driver in the event of a significant impact!

the fact probably is that if we have a considerably harsh accident, we (the driver) would die or be severely maimed anyway whether the area is a crumple zone or not.

The driver was unhurt in yesterdays instance.

But the fear is for us that something like this could easily happen again......
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/14/article-0-0A6FD938000005DC-875_634x520.jpg

 

[Chrisgr31]

Yet more cancellations and short formations this morning, with the announcements at Crowborough stating that one of the usints was broken down at Uckfield and being worked on. Not sure that was correct.

There is a suggestion that 3 out of 6 of the four coach 171's are in the depot with either accident damage or engine faults.

What remains really annoyomng is Southern's ability to communicate the issues. They were asked on Twitter yesterday whether all the units would be back in service today and responded they had not heard different. I am not blaming the social media team as it is clear they are not been given information.

Bearing in mind the shortage of units last week the fleet manager ought to have been able to have either to have advised hat all units were currently working (if they were) or that x units were still under repair but as long as no more broke a full service dhould be possible, or some other response that actually gives passengers useful information.

I wonder what time Southern will infom us of cancellation and short formations in this evenings peak. I assume the fleet manager already knows the answer. Chances it has been passed on to enable the passengers to know and share? Zero!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

the fact probably is that if we have a considerably harsh accident, we (the driver) would die or be severely maimed anyway whether the area is a crumple zone or not.

The driver was unhurt in yesterdays instance.

Pleased to hear the driver was ok.

 

[Shempz]

On a more positive note for the Uckfield line...I'd just like to thank the drivers (if any of you are one of them) that always sound their horn when approaching/leaving Ashurst station whenever I take my daughter down to Willettt's farm rail bridge. I put her on my shoulders and we always wave, and they have always waved back and sounded the train's horn.

 

[Chrisgr31]

On a more positive note for the Uckfield line...I'd just like to thank the drivers (if any of you are one of them) that always sound their horn when approaching/leaving Ashurst station whenever I take my daughter down to Willettt's farm rail bridge. I put her on my shoulders and we always wave, and they have always waved back and sounded the train's horn.

Oh the staff on the line are fine or indeed great. A few of the conductors are better than others, but they are all friendly. Dont see as many of the drivers but the few occasions that I have spoken to them when we are stuck somewhere they have been friendly and chatty.

Its just let down by control and those who could pass on information

 

[physics34]

On a more positive note for the Uckfield line...I'd just like to thank the drivers (if any of you are one of them) that always sound their horn when approaching/leaving Ashurst station whenever I take my daughter down to Willettt's farm rail bridge. I put her on my shoulders and we always wave, and they have always waved back and sounded the train's horn.

My pleasure �� Although I actually don't specifically remember waving at anyone near ashurst before! Been down there so much that I must have done

 

[LBSCR Times]

Its just let down by control and those who could pass on information

Two points!

Southern only have one Controller, per shift, who is responsible for the whole of their Metro area, including the Oxted line and the Milton Keynes service.
When something goes wrong, then something has to give, unfortunately.

Also, information does go out, but sometimes there can be too much. I've had Conductors show me their mobiles with so many messages that they just don't bother to read them anymore!
Yes, sometimes the messages are unnecessary, such as saying a train is 8' late start from Eastbourne and is now 10' late Haywards Heath, but this is still a throwback to days gone by when the main stations didn't have access to maps, or line-ups for train running.

 

[hassaanhc]

802, 803 & 804 all on engine fault related issues lately.

171802 was out and about today, saw it leaving London Bridge around 0945 (appeared to be empty stock).

 

[Chrisgr31]

I was on 804 this evening. It does appear that most of them are back in service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Two points!

Southern only have one Controller, per shift, who is responsible for the whole of their Metro area, including the Oxted line and the Milton Keynes service.
When something goes wrong, then something has to give, unfortunately.

Also, information does go out, but sometimes there can be too much. I've had Conductors show me their mobiles with so many messages that they just don't bother to read them anymore!
Yes, sometimes the messages are unnecessary, such as saying a train is 8' late start from Eastbourne and is now 10' late Haywards Heath, but this is still a throwback to days gone by when the main stations didn't have access to maps, or line-ups for train running.

Well the obvious solution is that they need more controllers, or some additional staff to support them! After all something goes wrong almost daily. The cost of dealing with the fallout from the lack of information from this shambles would probably have paid the annual salaries involved in additional staff!

The Uckfield Line should be a shining example for GOVIA's management of a railway. After all before they introduced the 171's 10 yrs ago most Uckfield services terminated at Oxted, the last train home form London was 21:00 (I think) not sure on 1st train up. The passengers could virtually be counted on the fingers of one hand and it was alottery how long it would take to get home and whether the connection at Oxted would work.

They introduced the Class 171s, introduced an hourly service to London, they have introduced later trains from London last train now 23:04, they have introduced earlier 1st trains. They are therefore working the socks of the units as Physics said further up.

The outcome being if a unit fails there are immediate short forms and the trains are so busy there are now complaints about overcrowding and they are having to find additional rolling stock.

It should be a positive story but Southern seem to have totally failed to tell everyone about their success on the line!

 

[physics34]

I was on 804 this evening. It does appear that most of them are back in service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well the obvious solution is that they need more controllers, or some additional staff to support them! After all something goes wrong almost daily. The cost of dealing with the fallout from the lack of information from this shambles would probably have paid the annual salaries involved in additional staff!

The Uckfield Line should be a shining example for GOVIA's management of a railway. After all before they introduced the 171's 10 yrs ago most Uckfield services terminated at Oxted, the last train home form London was 21:00 (I think) not sure on 1st train up. The passengers could virtually be counted on the fingers of one hand and it was alottery how long it would take to get home and whether the connection at Oxted would work.

They introduced the Class 171s, introduced an hourly service to London, they have introduced later trains from London last train now 23:04, they have introduced earlier 1st trains. They are therefore working the socks of the units as Physics said further up.

The outcome being if a unit fails there are immediate short forms and the trains are so busy there are now complaints about overcrowding and they are having to find additional rolling stock.

It should be a positive story but Southern seem to have totally failed to tell everyone about their success on the line!

Has needed additional stock for years..... thankfully more stock is just around the corner!!

 

[BritishRail83]

What the Uckfield line could really do with is electrification and re-opening to Lewis. The 171's are nice trains though.

 

[swt_passenger]

What the Uckfield line could really do with is electrification and re-opening to Lewis...

That Scottish Government - it's spend, spend, spend. That'll be through the Hebrides tunnel then?

 

[BritishRail83]

That Scottish Government - it's spend, spend, spend. That'll be through the Hebrides tunnel then?

I only did that to see if anyone would notice the mistake!

 

[Bishopstone]

That Scottish Government - it's spend, spend, spend. That'll be through the Hebrides tunnel then?

Nothing wrong with some blue Skye thinking.

I'm sure Network Rail will Mull it over.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The 171's are nice trains though.

They are indeed, well for the passengers anyway, don't know about for the drivers.

My preferred option, as expressed here before, would be for the twin track to be reinstated, and the diesels kept.

However I believe there are areas where that would involve significant works so cant see it happening.

 

[Bald Rick]

What the Uckfield line could really do with is electrification and re-opening to Lewis.

The Butt of many a joke.

 

[transmanche]

What the Uckfield line could really do with is electrification and re-opening to Lewis. The 171's are nice trains though.

Having never been on a 171, how does the 'passenger environment' compare with an Electrostar?

 

[BritishRail83]

Having never been on a 171, how does the 'passenger environment' compare with an Electrostar?

Very similar the 171's seem a bit more comfortable to me anyway

 

[Chrisgr31]

Very similar the 171's seem a bit more comfortable to me anyway

I'd agree. The standard class of a Class 171 is 2 by 2 seating whereas I think the Electostar has a mixture of 2 by 2 and 3 by 2. Also aren't there more tables in the 171's and they are actually a proper size?

I think the seats might be a bit more comfy too.

Finally they are of course nosier and very easy to find at London Bridge!

 

[BritishRail83]

I'd agree. The standard class of a Class 171 is 2 by 2 seating whereas I think the Electostar has a mixture of 2 by 2 and 3 by 2. Also aren't there more tables in the 171's and they are actually a proper size?

I think the seats might be a bit more comfy too.

Finally they are of course nosier and very easy to find at London Bridge!

Yes, there are more proper tables and I find the seats more comfortable.

 

[southern442]

I'd agree. The standard class of a Class 171 is 2 by 2 seating whereas I think the Electostar has a mixture of 2 by 2 and 3 by 2. Also aren't there more tables in the 171's and they are actually a proper size?

I think the seats might be a bit more comfy too.

Finally they are of course nosier and very easy to find at London Bridge!

Whilst the electrostar 2+2 seating is very comfy, the 2+3 seating is really bad and the 171 seats are bigger and more comfortable than either of the other two. I'm not sure if the tables are bigger on the 171's, it depends on the 377. The 171's also have a very nice 2+1 first class with massive tables and reclining seats.

 

[GatwickDepress]

The ratio of table to airline is very high. I'd say around roughly a half of all seats (Chapman, I think) are facing a table, which isn't so great on overcrowded Uckfield services, but fantastic when gliding through the Sussex countryside.

Toilets are also in each driving vehicle, unlike Electrostars where they're in the intermediate vehicles.

Seating capacity:
171/7 - 107 standard, 9 first class
171/8 - 234 standard, 18 first class

Whilst the electrostar 2+2 seating is very comfy, the 2+3 seating is really bad and the 171 seats are bigger and more comfortable than either of the other two. I'm not sure if the tables are bigger on the 171's, it depends on the 377. The 171's also have a very nice 2+1 first class with massive tables and reclining seats.

There are also power sockets and a bin under the 1x airline seat in the first class cabin. So one doesn't have to leave their seat and mingle with the great unwashed to dispose of their crisp packet.

 

[RobShipway]

What the Uckfield line could really do with is electrification and re-opening to Lewis. The 171's are nice trains though.

Where is Lewis or did you mean Lewes?

 

[Chrisgr31]

I'd say around roughly a half of all seats (Chapman, I think) are facing a table, which isn't so great on overcrowded Uckfield services, but fantastic when gliding through the Sussex countryside.

Although I'll return to my favourite point on overcrowding and say that when the 171's were introduced no one would have thought the overcrowding would have become the issue it has so quickly! Not that long before there were constant rumours about line closures etc, dont hear those now!

 

[RobShipway]

Although I'll return to my favourite point on overcrowding and say that when the 171's were introduced no one would have thought the overcrowding would have become the issue it has so quickly! Not that long before there were constant rumours about line closures etc, dont hear those now!

Now you will hear talk of putting the line back in from Lewes, so that the line can become BML2 which I think is a good idea.

Even though I live in Berkshire now, I grew up in East Sussex and know how overcrowded the trains from Brighton to London got through the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's, so only can imagine that it is three times worse now in the peak periods than during those times.

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but could the coaches from the Electrostar production line be inserted into the Class 171's at all? If it can then I would extend if possible the 4 car 171's to be five car and at the same time extend the 377/3's to be four car trains. The two car 171's should really become 3 171 as well if possible. Having said that, if some of the lines get electrified within the next 5 to 20 years, which I think is unlikely then there might not be a need to extend these trains.

 

[BritishRail83]

Where is Lewis or did you mean Lewes?

I meant LEWES East Sussex. Spelt it wrong, like Lewis in Scotland, will never live it down. I'm getting KINTYRED of it now!

 

[physics34]

Now you will hear talk of putting the line back in from Lewes, so that the line can become BML2 which I think is a good idea.

Even though I live in Berkshire now, I grew up in East Sussex and know how overcrowded the trains from Brighton to London got through the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's, so only can imagine that it is three times worse now in the peak periods than during those times.

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but could the coaches from the Electrostar production line be inserted into the Class 171's at all? If it can then I would extend if possible the 4 car 171's to be five car and at the same time extend the 377/3's to be four car trains. The two car 171's should really become 3 171 as well if possible. Having said that, if some of the lines get electrified within the next 5 to 20 years, which I think is unlikely then there might not be a need to extend these trains.

For a start 171 coaches are longer than 377 coaches so that would probably put an end to that possibilty.

The 3 car units are actually quite useful now as the combination of 2x3 car and 1x4 car creates 10 cars trains which are needed on metro services in the peak.

Some Lewes - Uckfield campaign groups have conceded that extending the line would not be financially viable after all and that more services on the route would cause more problems because of the heavily used junction and bottleneck at South Croydon

..oh and if you were not aware, Southern are getting 4 x 3 car 170s from Scotrail in the spring.

 

[southern442]

For a start 171 coaches are longer than 377 coaches so that would probably put an end to that possibilty.

The 3 car units are actually quite useful now as the combination of 2x3 car and 1x4 car creates 10 cars trains which are needed on metro services in the peak.

Some Lewes - Uckfield campaign groups have conceded that extending the line would not be financially viable after all and that more services on the route would cause more problems because of the heavily used junction and bottleneck at South Croydon

..oh and if you were not aware, Southern are getting 4 x 3 car 170s from Scotrail in the spring.

How would 3 car trains fit in with 2 and 4 car trains? I'm no expert but do they plan on 7 car or 5 car diagrams?