class 313 ride

[387star]

Yey had my first ride on a refurbished Southern 313 today! Was from Littlehampton to Portsmouth.

The comments from passenegers made me lol.

One girl said to her mum 'this is a weird train' her mum said 'Why's that?' The girl replying 'I don't know but I've never been on a train like this before' with much trepidation!

Two teenagers opposite talked non stop about the train at one point resounding 'is it safe!' and at another juncture delclaring 'it's the 21st century' when the guard informed about the toilet situation!!. They were awe struck when I told them the train was built in the 70s! Least it wasn't a pacer!

My view?

Doors: I expected the corridor connection doors to be automatic. They really do make for a loud slam!!

Draught: Despite heating on and windows being closed the train was dam cold!

Upholstery: Why are there two types of Southern moquette on the seats?

PIS: This wasn't working...

Ride: Those jolts and sways were quite something!!

:P

 

[hedpe]

I remember travelling on these when the London Overground were using them. Some units would leak water through the ceiling when it rained!

 

[lm321412]

Doors: I expected the corridor connection doors to be automatic. They really do make for a loud slam!!

I would say the majority of trains on the UK Railway network do not have automatic corridor connection doors. As for the loud slam, you/passengers were obviously slamming them then as they don't have to slam if you shut the door properley...

 

[notadriver]

313s are **** period!

 

[387star]

yeah I noticed some water on one of the arm rests.

Was great to see a 313 on the Portsmouth service after all this talk.

Trust me that door slammed!

Interestingly the space for bikes seems more generous plus the vestibles are carpeted.

It is great to have different unit traction after the monotony of 377s

On a serious note they do seem a bit too cold

 

[class156]

The doors on the similar 314s slam loudly.

 

[jopsuk]

I would say the majority of trains on the UK Railway network do not have automatic corridor connection doors. As for the loud slam, you/passengers were obviously slamming them then as they don't have to slam if you shut the door properley...

auto/powered corridor connector doors on everything post-privatisation, and even before- Networkers, 158s, 159s, 442s. Some older stock have them refitted- class 317/7 for example. Pacers don't have anything. Class 155/156 have doors to the cabins from vestibules, but though these are sliding they're mainly locked open. So, the 150/313/314/315/317 (mainly)/318/319/320/321/322/323/455/456/507/508 have "slammable" doors.
Power, locked open or no doors: 121/139/142/143/144/153/155/156/158/159/165/166/168/170/171/172/175/180/175/220/221/222/317 (a few)/332/333/334/350/357/360/365/375/376/377/378/379 (in build)/380/390/395/442/444/450/458/460/465/466/WAG sets/WSMR mrk3 sets/Pretendolino/GE mrk3 sets/EC mrk4 sets/HSTs. Anyone else feel free to correct if I've got any wrong here, but I reckon even without counting the number of sets/rakes the majority side is clear...

(apologies for the sideline pedantry)

 

[ainsworth74]

(apologies for the sideline pedantry)

Surly pedant moment of the month

 

[jopsuk]

It took bloody ages to write out those lists!

(anyone care to add up the numbers for me?)

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure! Seriously I think a medal or something is in order

 

[jopsuk]

Certificate more like...

 

[class156]

auto/powered corridor connector doors on everything post-privatisation, and even before- Networkers, 158s, 159s, 442s. Some older stock have them refitted- class 317/7 for example. Pacers don't have anything. Class 155/156 have doors to the cabins from vestibules, but though these are sliding they're mainly locked open. So, the 150/313/314/315/317 (mainly)/318/319/320/321/322/455/456/507/508 have "slammable" doors.
Power, locked open or no doors: 121/139/142/143/144/153/155/156/158/159/165/166/168/170/171/172/175/180/175/220/221/222/317 (a few)/323/332/333/334/350/357/360/365/375/376/377/378/379 (in build)/380/390/395/442/444/450/458/460/465/466/WAG sets/WSMR mrk3 sets/Pretendolino/GE mrk3 sets/EC mrk4 sets/HSTs. Anyone else feel free to correct if I've got any wrong here, but I reckon even without counting the number of sets/rakes the majority side is clear...

(apologies for the sideline pedantry)

Quite a helpful list there!, just to point out a small error and that is that the 318s deffinetly have slamming carriage doors as do the 320s.

 

[danfitz123]

I think the 313's and 314's should be refurbished like the 507's and 508's we have up in merseyside.

 

[jon0844]

313s are **** period!

No they're not! They're fine for what they do, even without a fancy refresh as done by Southern.

They're also pretty reliable given their age, and although staff call them bone shakers, I have never felt they're that uncomfortable - besides the jolting you can get when the train starts moving.

Is the problem more likely down to the track? I've never realised how bad some of the track is on Southern, until I went to Chichester and had a 377 bumping up and down so much, you'd think it was about to derail!

What's amazing is that there seems to be plenty of life left in the 313s, and a decent refresh would add even more to the ones working in London. It's hard to say that about some of the newer stock!

As for the lack of toilets, well that is an issue - and even on FCC, you can have trips of up to 45-50 minutes and I do believe toilets should be a consideration on any replacement stock; yet tube trains can go even longer (1hr 40 or so Cockfosters to Heathrow?) and I guess people in London are just used to it. However, on FCC, the vast majority of people aren't on the train the whole time. By the time I get to Hatfield, it's quite possible I am one of the only ones getting off my coach. If I stay on to WGC, it could be me and only 4-5 others from the whole train!

 

[prod_pep]

Do agree with much of that post, Jon.

They may be a come down from the 377s, but isn't that inevitable? The 377s are some 25 years younger than the 313s, and let's not forget the 313s have been very intensively used throughout their career passing through some tough communities. I don't know if I'm just biased, but I actually find the ride quality of the two classes rather similar: the 377s bounce a good deal on the London - Brighton line. Admittedly, the 377s are much quieter on the move.

As for the toilets, I think it's being over-stated. Is it really that hard to go before you travel, or use the toilets at a major station instead? I've heard people mentioning the fact toilets on the existing 377s are often locked out of use anyway - so no more use than the 313s!

I'm not saying the 313s are perfect, but at least cut them some slack. They're not new!

 

[jon0844]

As long as toilet facilities are offered at stations, that's fine. Certainly many overground Underground stations have them, including some of the bigger Zone 1 stations.

FCC has toilets at many stations, but they close long before the last trains run - and that's when they might be needed more than during the day! Suffice to say, it makes more sense for FCC to run the late trains as ones with toilets - but that's not the case and many run without.

I'd love to see new trains, that have better sound insulation and air conditioning, but the 313s are fine at doing what they do and prove that we once knew how to build things to last.

 

[CarterUSM]

I'd love to see new trains, that have better sound insulation and air conditioning, but the 313s are fine at doing what they do and prove that we once knew how to build things to last.

Spot on. Also no worrying about "software" problems, units not "talking" to one another, snow being sucked into traction motors, etc etc etc. Stop, go, stop, go. Well generally anyway!

 

[thelem]

yet tube trains can go even longer (1hr 40 or so Cockfosters to Heathrow?) and I guess people in London are just used to it.

On the tube many stations have toilets, so you can get off the train, use a station toilet, then get another train in a few minutes time. Do the same on the south coast and you might be delayed by an hour.

Having said that, there are lots of stations without toilets and no easy way to know which stations do have toilets, or how far they are from the platforms.

 

[jon0844]

Toilets at railway stations are a problem - and the gap in service is an issue. Mind you, even with a high service frequency on the tube.. will people be charged to get off, exit, use the toilet and go back in? Imagine the fraud potential by asking nicely to be let out to use the toilet and never coming back!

It's not THAT common but I have seen rather too many station toilets that are closed even when the station is open (to be fair, it's often put down as being because of vandalism - but an out of order toilet is still an out of order toilet). And, in the latest printed timetable book (and any before it), there's nothing on the route map to show the stations that have toilets. I'm speaking for FCC but doubt many others are different.

To be honest, I've only ever needed the toilet after a night out - and an all station train that takes 30+ minutes is not fun in that situation. You really do notice every single second extra before the doors close, and wonder why the driver can't just get on with it.

 

[313103]

Oh so we have gone from a class 313 ride on the southern to toilets on FCC .................. I think i can see the link!

I wish we had them back on LOROL now. None of this computer says NO, computer says NO, computer says NO, computer says NNNNNNNNNNNN oh well OK you can go now nonsense.

 

[ushawk]

I went on a 313 from Seaford to Brighton the other say and it was so squeaky. Compared to how the interior was on LO, they have been refit well. PI wasnt working either, but this journey is about 30 minutes anyway so the 313 is fine for this route.

 

[jon0844]

I can only comment on the toilet situation where I am, but 313s are the same here as they are there - except the Southern ones look much nicer.

A valid point was made about the difference between a tube train and a normal train given the frequency of services, and whether it's FCC or Southern, I'm sure the same applies.

Mind you, the title of this thread is about the 313 ride - and I think they're fine, and that poor ride quality seems more down to the track if it can make 377s jolt around so much (yet appear fine when a FCC 377/5 goes north of St Pancras).

 

[O L Leigh]

Cl377's have suspension rated for 100mph operation which means that they have additional yaw dampers where the Cl313's suspension is rated only for 75mph operation and has just the basic suspension arrangements without yaw dampers. This will have an affect on ride quality over uneven track.

However, the key factor that affects ride quality is the smoothness of the track. All trains ride well when the track is billiard table smooth, but where it's all shot to hell they equally all struggle.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

I have to say that while the new Victoria Line trains are pretty bland, they do seem to be incredibly smooth. Sure, they don't go that fast, but from starting to stopping, you feel more like you're on a conveyor belt than a track.

 

[Fincra5]

In my opinion the 313s are smoother than 377s, much more fun to operate as a guard (for me anyway) than 377s.

 

[lm321412]

auto/powered corridor connector doors on everything post-privatisation, and even before- Networkers, 158s, 159s, 442s. Some older stock have them refitted- class 317/7 for example. Pacers don't have anything. Class 155/156 have doors to the cabins from vestibules, but though these are sliding they're mainly locked open. So, the 150/313/314/315/317 (mainly)/318/319/320/321/322/455/456/507/508 have "slammable" doors.
Power, locked open or no doors: 121/139/142/143/144/153/155/156/158/159/165/166/168/170/171/172/175/180/175/220/221/222/317 (a few)/323
(apologies for the sideline pedantry)

323s have the old traditional doors, not powered ones.

 

[jopsuk]

323s have the old traditional doors, not powered ones.

Fair enough, I got one wrong. Not badly enough to make my point invalid I reckon?

 

[Alan1310]

313's sound like crap hearing them pulling into Hatfield is a joke you need earplugs the break sequel is awful

 

[jon0844]

Really? I've got very good hearing and can't recall any train pulling into Hatfield squealing. That goes for ANY class.

 

[notadriver]

In my opinion the 313s are smoother than 377s, much more fun to operate as a guard (for me anyway) than 377s.

Isn't that because the only controls for the doors are located in the rear cabs you have an excuse to lock yourself away and not face the passengers unlike in a 377 where the guards panel in the cabs doesn't work?