class 313 ride

[313103]

Isn't that because the only controls for the doors are located in the rear cabs you have an excuse to lock yourself away and not face the passengers unlike in a 377 where the guards panel in the cabs doesn't work?

I would respond to this comment, but i think i will give it the contempt it deserves by saying Nothing!

 

[Skimble19]

313103, I don't blame you.. I've just read a few other posts by him, almost on the verge of sounding troll-like..

EDIT: Still can't work out if he genuinely is just being a bit sarky or trolling..

 

[notadriver]

It was a joke, but still the fact remains guards are often not visible because they are hiding in the back cab.

 

[313103]

It was a joke, but still the fact remains guards are often not visible because they are hiding in the back cab.

Strange how you say it was a joke then make a point of fact in the same sentence, the irony was certainly not lost on me. However now that you have made a factual comment, hows about you also come up with the evidence?

 

[notadriver]

Strange how you say it was a joke then make a point of fact in the same sentence, the irony was certainly not lost on me. However now that you have made a factual comment, hows about you also come up with the evidence?

What kind of evidence do you want? Trips? Dates? Times? Ok an Electrostar I was travelling on - never minding the fact that no ticket check was carried out, the guard decided to carry out dispatch from the back cab (which is not allowed unless its really busy - which it wasn't) and couldn't even be bothered to get out of the train onto the platform to do it.

Closer to home 313103, on the North London Line on numerous occasions guards dispatch from the rear cab even when there is room inside to dispatch normally. I've even heard that they re-release the doors after they have closed them to let people on who are late and I thought that wasn't permitted as I thought the drivers release the doors.

 

[313103]

What kind of evidence do you want? Trips? Dates? Times? Ok an Electrostar I was travelling on - never minding the fact that no ticket check was carried out, the guard decided to carry out dispatch from the back cab (which is not allowed unless its really busy - which it wasn't) and couldn't even be bothered to get out of the train onto the platform to do it.

Closer to home 313103, on the North London Line on numerous occasions guards dispatch from the rear cab even when there is room inside to dispatch normally. I've even heard that they re-release the doors after they have closed them to let people on who are late and I thought that wasn't permitted as I thought the drivers release the doors.

Point 1 (Southern) would help. Then Southern could deal with it within their own discipline procedure.

Point 2 (LOROL). I could be a culprit on this and i will not make any excuses because if you think that i should stand for up to 6 hours (that is how long some of our diagrams are before a break) then you badly mistaken i have myself a back problem and standing for this length of time means it aggravates it which in turns means i will spend time of sick. Not what you really want is it? It also does not state that you must be in the train at all times, now if this was the case then i would not have a problem with it, there are ways of making a train late or even cancelling it if their is no space to work the train. Either the company let me choose how and when to work the train or i will work it to the absolute letter of the law and if that means i cant work from the inside panel then passengers will have to get off to allow space if they dont the train will just sit their until they do. Again if that is what you want?

With regards the door opening. Yes you are absolutely right, Guards are not meant to open the doors from the rear cab once the close door procedure has been done, on the occasions you will find me in the back cabs i will not reopen and will tell people stuck on the platform that the driver has control over this, so please wait 15 to 30 minutes for the next one. I have informed the Conductors that they are liable for discipline should they be caught reopening the doors, even in a emergency situation. Again have you got dates and have you reported the matters to London overground customers services. Now i must dash as i am about to go to work and spend time standing (this diagram isnt that bad its is only 4.5 hours of standing before i get a break).

 

[NXEA!]

Peronsally, having grown up in London and using the NLL regularly, I really like the 313's and I was sad to see them go as I thought they brought a bit of character to the line. However I'm glad Southern are using them, and they're doing what they do best - relatively short journeys with stops in quick succession. As for the toilet issue, I don't really think that is much of a problem, as there are toilets on the station however I do sympathise with passengers using the sets on Portsmouth services, as that is quite a way to go without a loo. As for the ride quality, as mentioned before this is most likely down to the track quality and a little bit of bounce isn't that bad! And also one final point - they have good ol' opening windows for air conditioning rather than the sometimes faulty air conditioning units. At least its guaranteed in the summer that way.

 

[Fincra5]

It was a joke, but still the fact remains guards are often not visible because they are hiding in the back cab.

Trust me, we want to be out on the train, selling tickets (getting commision) But its not that simple...

1) The PIS system isn't allowed to function yet.

2) The phone in the middle control panel doesn't function, which means we have no communication with the driver.

We also need the phone to make Passenger announcements until the PIS is up and running. Because of these reasons we have to be in the back cab.

When there is a large enough gab between stations, most guards will walk up the train checking tickets etc.

 

[387star]

an angry customer was having a go at a southern person over these trains today!

 

[Fincra5]

There actually isn't much wrong with them. Yes no air-con or toilets but thats about it.

All i got today was some woman from worthing area saying they were "mingin'", as they reminded her of tube trains and she didn't like tube trains

 

[LE Greys]

There actually isn't much wrong with them. Yes no air-con or toilets but thats about it.

All i got today was some woman from worthing area saying they were "mingin'", as they reminded her of tube trains and she didn't like tube trains

Well, they do the job of moving people from station to station, and that's fair enough. They've gone on doing their job for years. Perhaps they're not the most comfortable trains in the world, but they are about on a par with the quad-arts that worked on the ECML in the 1930s. More trains that just did the job. I don't exactly like them, but I hope that whatever replaces them keeps on doing the job.

 

[Alan1310]

Really? I've got very good hearing and can't recall any train pulling into Hatfield squealing. That goes for ANY class.

yeah a few times mate they also thud as they arrive depart wheel flats maybe ? i am no expert. maybe you know of anything else that would make a squel i dont know much about the 313 or bx1 bogies

 

[jon0844]

I don't anything about the mechanics of any particular class of train, but I really cannot recall 313s always squeaking (or any other train). Some have a bumpy ride (but I've been on 365s bouncing along) which might be down to bad maintenance, but not actually an inherent 'feature' of that train.

We'll probably get the 313s replaced with something like the 378s and I'm sure that they'll have loads of problems, but at their age I doubt that anyone will spend that much money on the 313s or give them a full refurb as against a gentle refresh.

 

[Aictos]

I don't anything about the mechanics of any particular class of train, but I really cannot recall 313s always squeaking (or any other train). Some have a bumpy ride (but I've been on 365s bouncing along) which might be down to bad maintenance, but not actually an inherent 'feature' of that train.

We'll probably get the 313s replaced with something like the 378s and I'm sure that they'll have loads of problems, but at their age I doubt that anyone will spend that much money on the 313s or give them a full refurb as against a gentle refresh.

I've been on 365s before where the whole carriage feels like it's vibrating but surely that's down to the track not to the train?

As to the 313s, the only noise they make which can be irrational are the compressors but other then that, they're fine for what they do.

Remember it could be a lot worse!

 

[jon0844]

It could be the track, or just dodgy suspension on that carriage. I've been on a couple of trains over the years where the ride was so bad I was concerned enough to report it, but there's no easy way to do so. Telling the driver is probably the best option, if you get the chance, and hope they'll log it - but they might just say 'thanks mate' and forget!

 

[Aictos]

I usually do let the driver know know of any concerns, not often that a train has to come out of passenger service immediately but I have known it to happen after a fault is brought to the driver's attention.

 

[313103]

D e l

 

[Skimble19]

We'll probably get the 313s replaced with something like the 378s and I'm sure that they'll have loads of problems, but at their age I doubt that anyone will spend that much money on the 313s or give them a full refurb as against a gentle refresh.

Except Southern of course

 

[jon0844]

Yes, but they had no choice did they? They were replacing 377s and had to be brought up to a higher standard. They probably wanted new rolling stock and were told that this is what they were going to get.

I doubt FCC or the next franchise holder would have any desire or requirement to do anything like that and would argue that an all-new fleet would be more economical.

I would be quite happy to see 313s stay in operation if they were given a proper and radical refurbishment. Actually, given more trains are now running as 6-cars, I'd even suggest that at the very least they change the seating to 2+2. In the peaks, they'll allow more standing (and easier boarding/alighting as the 3+2 makes it near impossible to move down the aisle to get off if it's full) and off-peak the trains are actually almost empty so even a quarter of the seats would suffice!

Those who travel from the furthest out to come into London during the peak would get a seat anyway, those boarding later on would likely stand but not have very long to be on the train in comparison (15-20 minutes?).

 

[notadriver]

Would 455s/456s have been a better choice?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

313103, I don't blame you.. I've just read a few other posts by him, almost on the verge of sounding troll-like..

EDIT: Still can't work out if he genuinely is just being a bit sarky or trolling..

Well what have you decided?

 

[Fincra5]

Would 455s/456s have been a better choice?

Whats the difference? Neither of those 2 units have toilets or the same couplings as 377s.

The idea sending 377/3s up to london is to increase capasity, taking 455s down south and using 313s in london wouldn't help at all.

Southern wanted new stock but there wasn't time in which to build them before the DfT said London had to have 10cars on certain services.

 

[notadriver]

I think of it in this way. On the roads there is no way a 30+ year old bus would be used in regular intensive service.

 

[CarterUSM]

30 years old doesn't necessarily mean that it is poor.

 

[causton]

Indeed, a bus company near me used a 'vintage' ex-London Buses bus in normal service for the last day of operation once and it was smooth and trouble-free as anything because it had the proper maintainence...

...then I get on one of Arriva's year-old Enviros and they feel like absolute ****... because of the maintainence!

Similar for trains

 

[Fincra5]

I think of it in this way. On the roads there is no way a 30+ year old bus would be used in regular intensive service.

There are tube trains over 30 years doing more daily miles than 313s. Whats wrong with their age? They still have sliding doors etc.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed, a bus company near me used a 'vintage' ex-London Buses bus in normal service for the last day of operation once and it was smooth and trouble-free as anything because it had the proper maintainence...

...then I get on one of Arriva's year-old Enviros and they feel like absolute ****... because of the maintainence!

Similar for trains

Oh yes. The local bus company runs my route with an Optare 'mini' bus that has leaky windows, squeaky brakes, a nasty engine noise (unless it's a supercharged engine?!) and door problems (not the door itself, but rather the button for the driver, who will end up asking us to use the manual 'emergency' button above the door). More recently the rear LED display (for the service number) stopped working.

It's about two years old!!!!

Edit: Is Optare in any way part of, or linked to, Bombardier?

 

[Skimble19]

I think of it in this way. On the roads there is no way a 30+ year old bus would be used in regular intensive service.

I dunno, you haven't seen some of the cack that Stagecoach send out on services around here..! Mind you, the newer buses they got a few years back are now in a right state as well.

 

[Chris125]

Trains are usually built with a much longer intended lifespan than busses so are expected to operate in front line service for much longer, and usually do, though often benefitting from at least one major refurbishment at some point.

Chris

 

[313103]

Would 455s/456s have been a better choice?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well what have you decided?

Me Ive decided on having a class 45 with 10 mk1 vacuum braked, steam heated coaches. But that aint going to happen is it?

Strange how you have picked out this old message, but not yet responded to my later one! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Is that because you found responding to my message difficult to answer?

As for me i prefered the 313s NOT BECAUSE I CAN HIDE IN THE BACK CAB, but because they are more reliable then what we have. I would really like to see what the failure statistics of a 35 year old 313 to a 1 year old class 378.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think of it in this way. On the roads there is no way a 30+ year old bus would be used in regular intensive service.

So the ten 45+ year old Routemasters that are on regular service 7 days a week in London doesnt count then?

 

[notadriver]

Have you considered going for a drivers job 313103? Then you could sit down and rest your back.