class 320 refurb

[rail-britain]

I actually avoid the middle car, and tell other people likewise, because the middle car has 3+2 seating compared to the more comfortable and spacious 2+2 in the outer carriages. If you want the "compartment" feel, I'd opt for the end right at the cab; it feels totally separate from the rest of the train and you've got 2+2 seating

I know the seats we chose were 2+2, with loads of legroom and red coloured compared to the other seats
Perhaps they were at the rear of the train, but I am almost sure we sat in the centre coach
Maybe we walked back through the gangway and went back one coach...
Equally, there were virtually no other passengers until Kilwinning, then a large number of school children between West Kilbride and Fairlie (the Ticket Examiner sat opposite us after Ardrossan)

 

[01jtiong]

class 320 is expected to be out today does anyone know/have any info on this

 

[me123]

Scot-rail's wiki tends just to give estimates on these things. I'm sure at least one such estimate has already passed. Probably been no more news on 320314 and it's just been forgotten about. There's no gen or anything available for its move back North yet, anyway.

She's almost been away for 3 months, so I wouldn't imagine that it would be much longer TBH!

 

[01jtiong]

the fact that the majority of scot rails stock are still in cream livery and not saltire which brings to the fact that its taking forever to re-livery their stock

most of scotrailtrains are old and need a re-livery or refurbished especially 318 and 320s and don;t know why its takes so long I mean come on and just do it already

 

[Nym]

most of scotrailtrains are old and need a re-livery or refurbished especially 318 and 320s and don;t know why its takes so long I mean come on and just do it already

Asside of course from the 170s, 380s, and 158s?

 

[jopsuk]

I think sometimes those living in the Strathclyde area "forget" about the rest of the country...

 

[me123]

the fact that the majority of scot rails stock are still in cream livery and not saltire which brings to the fact that its taking forever to re-livery their stock

most of scotrailtrains are old and need a re-livery or refurbished especially 318 and 320s and don;t know why its takes so long I mean come on and just do it already

The stock is being repainted as and when necessary; they're not specifically taking them all out of service to quickly repaint them, they'll do it when it's needed. Aside from a couple of 334s (for the A-B launch) and a single 170 (for the relivery launch), everything else is only going to be done as and when it's needed.

The 320 overhaul is more than just a lick of paint. It's a full refurbishment, including the installation of a toilet, a total interior refresh, and the final modifications to allow 90mph running. It's likely to be these things that are taking the extra time, rather than the repainting.

318s have only just had a pretty major overhaul and a relivery (4-6 years ago is fairly recent) so I wouldn't expect them to be done for quite some time yet! Their next overhaul (probably a more minor affair, much further down the line) may include a relivery, but I wouldn't expect much more than that. The 320s are due one just now, as are the 334s. The refurbs have been delayed slightly due to the 380 issues, but to be honest only the 314s desperately need it done.

And if you think Scotrail trains are old, you should maybe take a visit to our poor neighbours in the North of England!
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I think sometimes those living in the Strathclyde area "forget" about the rest of the country...

Don't tar us all with the same brush; I don't know what he's talking about with the 318s.

 

[jopsuk]

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Don't tar us all with the same brush; I don't know what he's talking about with the 318s.

heh, I'm from the Forth valley, tarring all clydesiders with a big brush is what we do

 

[tbtc]

And if you think Scotrail trains are old, you should maybe take a visit to our poor neighbours in the North of England!

True.

Scotrail had some 117s at privatisation as well as plenty 150s.

These have all been replaced by 170s (directly or indirectly) as the fleet has become younger.

On the other hand, the only "post privatisation" DMUs that Northern has are the three 180s on short-loan from the East Coast franchise).

 

[01jtiong]

The reason being is that the scotrail brand is in saltire livery. if you look at all their product brands, they have the saltire livery so therefore your main products/stock should reflect that look as well.

If you were a company and had a logo on it you would want that brand logo/name etc on all your products

the same should apply to scotrail their brand saltire look is over their website/timetables etc so therefore it should reflect on their rolling stock as well

when I see a cream/carmine train it doesn;t reflect scotrail but still SPT (though scotrail took over SPT rail operation)

they should overhaul their trains, its 2011, I mean some look outdated both interior and exterior besides the company should reflect their brand on their trains
only 2 334s are already re-livered and some 314, 170 etc

Scotrail should repaint all their stock regardless of external factors

 

[sprinterguy]

The reason being is that the scotrail brand is in saltire livery. if you look at all their product brands, they have the saltire livery so therefore your main products/stock should reflect that look as well.

If you were a company and had a logo on it you would want that brand logo/name etc on all your products

the same should apply to scotrail their brand saltire look is over their website/timetables etc so therefore it should reflect on their rolling stock as well

when I see a cream/carmine train it doesn;t reflect scotrail but still SPT (though scotrail took over SPT rail operation)

they should overhaul their trains, its 2011, I mean some look outdated both interior and exterior besides the company should reflect their brand on their trains
only 2 334s are already re-livered and some 314, 170 etc

Scotrail should repaint all their stock regardless of external factors

But it takes a good while to repaint something as large as a train, or even to revinyl one, which is the prevalent trend for train liveries at the moment. And there’s only so many trains that can be out of service at once receiving such attention before it starts to impact on the train services being provided.

Finally, repainting is an expensive process, especially when quite a lot of Scotrails’ fleet have only been reliveried fairly recently in terms of the life expectancy of the paint finish applied to the trains (Especially in terms of the First Group “swirl” liveried trains, which have only been in that scheme for a couple of years).

For refurbishments, all the above points apply to an even greater extent: Trains are out of service for even longer, and it costs much more to do.

It’s much easier for a web monkey in an office to change the appearance of a website quickly than it is for a group of blokes to open their paint pots and repaint a rather sizeable number of trains.

 

[MacCookie]

Asside of course from the 170s, 380s, and 158s?

Only one Class 170 and a handful of 158s are in ScotRail livery. The rest of those two fleets are still in First livery.
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The 320 overhaul is more than just a lick of paint. It's a full refurbishment, including the installation of a toilet, a total interior refresh, and the final modifications to allow 90mph running. It's likely to be these things that are taking the extra time, rather than the repainting.

Pedant: There's no work being done at Doncaster in relation to the increase in speed limit on the 320s. The limit has already been increased.

Ewan

 

[me123]

I thought they'd done most of it, and still had a bit to do? I don't really bother myself with the mechanical gubbins TBH!

 

[01jtiong]

I hope scotrail speed up production with their old fleet of 320 etc

I mean why does the delay of 380's either delay of drivers or delay of 380 delivery into service or delay of 380's moving onto the lines etc, having a huge impact on the whole production line of the units

 

[MacCookie]

I thought they'd done most of it, and still had a bit to do? I don't really bother myself with the mechanical gubbins TBH!

Here we go... Fleet were cleared for 90mph from 1st April:
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/thread/253376/page1/
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/8020/

 

[cj_1985]

I hope scotrail speed up production with their old fleet of 320 etc

I mean why does the delay of 380's either delay of drivers or delay of 380 delivery into service or delay of 380's moving onto the lines etc, having a huge impact on the whole production line of the units

in this case its the issues that affected the class 380s that lead to FSR refusing to accept them untill they met certain requirements ie. miles traveled without fault, the TMS issues and/or the roof flying off one of the class 380s during test runs...

the 380s are/were meant to allow the class 334 to be moved more or less entirely onto A-B services, with the 380s replacing the class 334 and class 320s on certain lines/services... that allow the class 320s to be refurbished and replace the 334s on some lines/services.

the fact that as we saw at the tail end of 2010 with a lack of 380s available for passenger service and/or driver training and an immediate requirement for class 334 to be transfered to operate on the new A-B line lead to short former trains... ie. trains that should have been (for talking sake) 6 carraiges were only able to operate with 3 car units because the other unit/s were needed elsewhere.

 

[me123]

Here we go... Fleet were cleared for 90mph from 1st April:
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/thread/253376/page1/
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/8020/

Well, that's good to see! Knowing me, I probably just assumed it was an April Fools joke
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I mean why does the delay of 380's either delay of drivers or delay of 380 delivery into service or delay of 380's moving onto the lines etc, having a huge impact on the whole production line of the units

The delay of 380s has lead to a small shortfall of units, and a lower-than-anticipated service frequency on the new Airdrie-Bathgate line. No units are being withdrawn once the 380s enter service. As such, there has been a slight delay in sending the units off for their overhauls. To be honest, I think the capacity is more important than the colour of the trains; people don't stop using Scotrail in Glasgow because they don't like green seats. But they might stop using Scotrail if they can't get onto the train because they've sent carriages off for a coat of paint!

 

[01jtiong]

regardless of what ever the reason, scotrail should be continuing a to repaint their trains on a rolling basis i.e. once a train has been repainted/overhauled the next one should go into production and vice versa thus speeding up the overhaul program then more new trains will be rolled out quicker and therefore should improve services.

customers would rather see new/improved trains that are up to date rather than using old/ dirty out of date trains when most of scotrail brands products are rolled out among other services

the re-livery program began in 2008 and this is 2011 3 years and only a few trains have been done not good enough

scotrail should implement a system where rolling stock can be done one after another

this is not good, don't like it
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now they are saying that the 320 is delayed again until 15th may
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delay again I mean why is so hard to delay a train if at all its been overhauled and repaint if any

why delay everytime

 

[MacCookie]

regardless of what ever the reason, scotrail should be continuing a to repaint their trains on a rolling basis i.e. once a train has been repainted/overhauled the next one should go into production and vice versa thus speeding up the overhaul program then more new trains will be rolled out quicker and therefore should improve services.

customers would rather see new/improved trains that are up to date rather than using old/ dirty out of date trains when most of scotrail brands products are rolled out among other services

the re-livery program began in 2008 and this is 2011 3 years and only a few trains have been done not good enough

scotrail should implement a system where rolling stock can be done one after another

this is not good, don't like it

Are you willing to pay for the repaints? The repaints are being undertaken as required - many ScotRail units have been repainted in the past five years so aren't yet due a repaint.

The agreement with Transport Scotland to roll out the new branding was that units would only be repainted when they came up for their next repainting (plus for "special occasions", such as the A-B launch). If TS decide they want the units repainted faster, TS have to pay for it - that comes out of our taxes and I'd much rather our taxes were spent on running more trains rather than repainting them just because they're in the "wrong" colour scheme. If the agreement had been to get all the units repainted within a certain period of time, I can assure you that the franchise payments would reflect that!

As for the 320, hardly ScotRail's fault if it's not ready yet. And getting upset that it's not finished yet won't make the work get done any faster!

Ewan

 

[me123]

scotrail should implement a system where rolling stock can be done one after another

That's what will happen once things settle down in the next few weeks. Once the 314s and 320s (and 334s) start their refurbishment programmes "proper", it will be on a rolling basis. One in, one out. Indeed, this has already started with the 314s (212 has come out, and 215 is now in, although will not get reliveried). But there aren't just repaints. All three units are to receive a pretty heavy overhaul, and as such it will take time to get them into the new colour scheme.

As I've already said, 318s have just had a repaint in the last few years. The DMUs, similarly, don't need a repaint either and they'll probably just have to wait until they need it. As for the 314s; not all of them are due a repaint and as such only the five that are due a repaint are to get the new livery.

I guarantee you that more people out there are moaning about wasting money painting trains that there are taking your viewpoint on the matter!
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delay again I mean why is so hard to delay a train if at all its been overhauled and repaint if any

why delay everytime

I'm pretty sure that the estimates on the Scot-rail wiki are just that; estimates.

 

[01jtiong]

I understand that its expensive repainting trains, but surely senior management at scotrail would rather have all their trains branded in their saltire livery rather than in old carmine colors as those old spt colors are not true representation of the scotrail the old SPT do not represent the identify of the scotrail brand

there for management must see that those trains that are not in saltire livery will get repainted and overhauled in order to represent the scotrail brand

burley other divisions of first rail companies overhaul their trains on a regular basis as well as other train companies in the UK, if they need a repaint they will do it

Is it the fact that scotrail rely heavily on first group, wouldn't it be simpler if scotrail was privatized in a sense that scotrial should be an independent rail company in order gain control of their operations

although it costs to repaint the trains, then why doesn;t the govt see the need to overhaul/repaint the trains especially those old SPT units like the 318 and more 320,

I have ride the 318 many times and see that they are out of date they need a repaint/overhaul

what I am saying is that old SPT units are not representative of the scotrail franchise as they are not in saltire colours and the fact remains that if scotrail have these old spt units then why not hurry things along

 

[387star]

Hi

Surely the First vinyl could be taken off relatively quickly with the base blue used for the scotRail vinyls? The blue is pretty much the same

Personally I think they are making good progress with the livery given they are currently refurbishing two classes and despite the 380 delays... 334s next too. I wouldn't expect them to properly repaint First units and the SPT 170s have a paint warranty issue IMO.

Look even the SPT 156s have been done!

Not bad *cough National Express East Anglia cough*

 

[cj_1985]

I understand that its expensive repainting trains, but surely senior management at scotrail would rather have all their trains branded in their saltire livery rather than in old carmine colors as those old spt colors are not true representation of the scotrail the old SPT do not represent the identify of the scotrail brand

there for management must see that those trains that are not in saltire livery will get repainted and overhauled in order to represent the scotrail brand

burley other divisions of first rail companies overhaul their trains on a regular basis as well as other train companies in the UK, if they need a repaint they will do it

Is it the fact that scotrail rely heavily on first group, wouldn't it be simpler if scotrail was privatized in a sense that scotrial should be an independent rail company in order gain control of their operations

although it costs to repaint the trains, then why doesn;t the govt see the need to overhaul/repaint the trains especially those old SPT units like the 318 and more 320,

I have ride the 318 many times and see that they are out of date they need a repaint/overhaul

what I am saying is that old SPT units are not representative of the scotrail franchise as they are not in saltire colours and the fact remains that if scotrail have these old spt units then why not hurry things along

scotrail is a privitsed TOC... its let out by/for the scotish government...
Scotrail isnt owned by First Group.. only operated FOR Transport Scotland... Transport Scotland made the standing decision that units etc will only be repainted as they need it, rather than waste money on a quick repaint program

honestly.. people moan because they dont waste money repainting units quickly, and people moan because operators do spend money on repaints.

 

[01jtiong]

The fact remains scotrail needs to hurry up and repaint their stock and thats that and update their fleet as well

saltire look is better than carmine colours

 

[CarterUSM]

I think First ScotRail would prefer their trains emblazoned with FIRST, instead of a small panel showing who operates it.

 

[Callum]

As the new Saltire livery is going to be around for quite a while (Decades perhaps? Who knows), and the fleet is quite large, I personally think they are doing a good job making their way through the fleet. They must have around 300 units (rough guestimate) and I guess it'd take a few weeks per unit, so giving them credit where credit's due, with rolling stock shortages and a couple of bad winters, in which rolling stock experienced problems, good on Scotrail.

 

[cj_1985]

The fact remains scotrail needs to hurry up and repaint their stock and thats that and update their fleet as well

saltire look is better than carmine colours

how is it a fact...?

have you listened/read anything that has been said/typed... units will be painted as and when it is required... not because a couple of enthusiats want X, Y and Z unit in a livery that they are not in just now..

as has been said before its Transport Scotland (the scottish government) that made the decision that money will not be wasted in a quick relivery program... and instead will repaint units etc as and when they require repainted or/if it coincides with works attention.

its not a decision that they have made because they dont want the new brand/identity to be as wide spread as possible.. its a decision thats been made for sensible reasons like not wasting money.

although if you feel so strongly that they should rush units through the paintshops, then perhaps you should call to write to Transport Scotland and/or ScotRail and voice your opinions.. or you could win the lottery and then pay for a quick fleetwide relivery:roll:

 

[387star]

Personally I think they are making good progress! All 320s, 156s and 334s from the SPT region and 380s will though not all yet be in the new livery very soon.

cough National East Anglia cough :P
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Personally I think they are making good progress! All 320s, 156s and 334s from the SPT region and 380s will (though not all are yet) be in the new livery very soon.

 

[cj_1985]

Personally I think they are making good progress! All 320s, 156s and 334s from the SPT region and 380s will though not all yet be in the new livery very soon.

cough National East Anglia cough :P
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Personally I think they are making good progress! All 320s, 156s and 334s from the SPT region and 380s will (though not all are yet) be in the new livery very soon.

although the class 320s wont all be repainted till mid 2013..
unless they are all repainted before the refurb is finished

 

[MacCookie]

I think First ScotRail would prefer their trains emblazoned with FIRST, instead of a small panel showing who operates it.

I think First ScotRail preferred the money they got from the franchise extension.

Ewan