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Class 345 progress

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Trailfinder

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It is not unusual for 335031/2 to be at Westbourne Park, first reported in posts #2579/80 on 7/12/18.

Are these the only units currently being used in the core?
 
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ijmad

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Any public information about how the testing is progressing?
 

kevin_roche

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These are very fast accelerating trains - 0-80mph in 60 seconds. On the other hand any performance advantage with the faster acceleration seems to be lost by the very cautious braking approach to most stations - even on a dry rail - compared to the turbos!

The cautious braking approach is, I believe, due to the regenerative braking.

I thought the reason the testing is supposedly failing is interference from the old signalling. If they switch them off entirely and it's just ETCS in the tunnels, the tests might start passing, and they could do it all in a blockade perhaps?

At a meeting of the IET a couple of weeks ago, Peter Gracey of Bechtel who has had some responsibility for the ETCS installation for Crossrail told me there was no interference issue between ETCS and GW-ATP. He categorically stated that it was not a problem. He did not say where the problem actually was but I suspect it is in the transition from TPWS to ETCS while on the move.
 
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reddragon

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The 7 car units 345.003/5-17 are in service with 345.022 replacing 345.002 as a 7 car and 345.001 is the test unit.
What has happened to 345.004?
 

Peter Mugridge

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The 7 car units 345.003/5-17 are in service with 345.022 replacing 345.002 as a 7 car and

345 022 has been a 7 car in service for a while; I had it for haulage twice back on 16th July 2018, from Liverpool Street to Stratford and later from Romford to Liverpool Street.
 

gc1982

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Just noticed a 345 on the single track near Bow. Do they normally hide here, or does this have something to do with the plan to terminate some at Stratford so that the platforms can be lengthened at Liverpool Street?
 

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Just noticed a 345 on the single track near Bow. Do they normally hide here, or does this have something to do with the plan to terminate some at Stratford so that the platforms can be lengthened at Liverpool Street?
When I did a traction familiarisation course the diagram included changing ends on the Bow single line. These empty coaching stock moves still seem to be on the system. I believe the line may also be used during disruptions.
 

306024

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It’s the evening peak standby train. In case of a cancellation from Liverpool St it can step in at a moments notice to fill the gap at Stratford. Very useful, known as the Bow Lifeboat.
 
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Just received an email from TfL:

On Sundays 19 and 26 May, and also on Sundays 2 and 9 June, trains will not be stopping at Maryland, Forest Gate or Manor Park stations. Use local buses to continue your journey. This is to allow Crossrail to test the trains through the tunnels, transitioning between the different signalling systems.

I wonder why testing means skipping those particular stations?
 

hwl

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Just received an email from TfL:



I wonder why testing means skipping those particular stations?
Probably because they are using the "slow/electric lines" for testing exclusively west of Ilford hence everything running of fast/mains to the West of Ilford so no capacity to stop.

I suspect the test unit(s) will reverse at the eastern end using the Forest Gate ladder
 

plcd1

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Just received an email from TfL:



I wonder why testing means skipping those particular stations?

Wild guess on my part. Service trains diverted to the fasts while local lines are under possession for use for test trains. I assume they will want to test that trains on the approach to the transition point are identified some distance away. Also allows them to try to run trains in succession at something like the expected frequency but that assumes the tunnel signalling is able to cope with such.
 

hwl

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Wild guess on my part. Service trains diverted to the fasts while local lines are under possession for use for test trains. I assume they will want to test that trains on the approach to the transition point are identified some distance away. Also allows them to try to run trains in succession at something like the expected frequency but that assumes the tunnel signalling is able to cope with such.
My guess is that they will want 6 blocks to the east of the Stratford platforms to accurately replicate expected running...
 

Railperf

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Just received an email from TfL:



I wonder why testing means skipping those particular stations?
The CBTC section commences at the East end of the Stratford electric line platforms. Operationally there has to be a reason connected with that.
 

kevin_roche

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The CBTC section commences at the East end of the Stratford electric line platforms. Operationally there has to be a reason connected with that.

The switch from TPWS to Trainguard MT and vice versa is supposed to happen while the train is in Stratford Station. Unlike the Paddington side where it happens while the train is moving.
 
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I suspect the test unit(s) will reverse at the eastern end using the Forest Gate ladder

Ah, that makes sense. I saw that CBTC ends just east of Stratford, so if the transition is being tested they’d probably then continue on and reverse there.
 

hwl

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Ah, that makes sense. I saw that CBTC ends just east of Stratford, so if the transition is being tested they’d probably then continue on and reverse there.
The relative systems "see" well beyond the transition zones so they need to be continue as they would in normal service to test the ability to run at the required intervals.
 

iphone76

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Probably because they are using the "slow/electric lines" for testing exclusively west of Ilford hence everything running of fast/mains to the West of Ilford so no capacity to stop.

I suspect the test unit(s) will reverse at the eastern end using the Forest Gate ladder

This is correct. In the past this would have been possible, however, the GA Sunday service is being speeded up from this weekend so the capacity is lost for the slow trains to stop at these stations when there is a 2 track railway.
 

kevin_roche

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The CBTC section commences at the East end of the Stratford electric line platforms. Operationally there has to be a reason connected with that.
This might help. It may be a bit out of date but was the original Network Rail consulting design for the transition at Stratford
8tzM26z.png
 

Aictos

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Are the Class 345s on specific workings on Saturdays?

What are they like?
 

700007

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Are the Class 345s on specific workings on Saturdays?

What are they like?
Yes they tend to be but they operate the majority of services on the Liverpool Street to Shenfield line, roughly 8 out of 11 diagrams. It won't be long until you find one. On the Paddington to Heathrow route they are always on the Hayes & Harlington terminators.
 

Aictos

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Yes they tend to be but they operate the majority of services on the Liverpool Street to Shenfield line, roughly 8 out of 11 diagrams. It won't be long until you find one. On the Paddington to Heathrow route they are always on the Hayes & Harlington terminators.

Didn’t have time at Liverpool Street but got one of the GWML ones instead, not a bad interior rather like the old A Stock inside mated with a Class 700!
 

simple simon

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In many ways it is so very bad that passengers using Maryland, Forest Gate and Manor Park are being shafted in this way. Being told to use local buses is not a solution - not just because of the extended journey times but also because passengers are being financially penalised through no fault of their own. OK, so the bus 'only' costs £1.50, but even that amount to someone on a restricted income (eg: low income, state benefits) can 'break the bank'. To my eyes it is wrong that passengers should be expected to pay anything extra. They should be able to collect two free bus saver tickets - one for their required bus journey and one as compensation for the inconvenience.

In times past these stations had a 20 minute interval off-peak service. Even reverting to this would be better than simply closing the station and leaving passengers in the lurch / to fend for themselves. The 345's have very good acceleration, which should also help.

It will not endear the people who live to the east of London to the Elizabeth line if they find that at weekends they have nothing! Its bad enough that the bay at Ilford has been sacrificed (OK a different issue, but still something that disbenefits the route)

This is correct. In the past this would have been possible, however, the GA Sunday service is being speeded up from this weekend so the capacity is lost for the slow trains to stop at these stations when there is a 2 track railway.

So if track works sees the two track section extending all the way to Gidea Park, does it mean that local trains will not call at any intermediate stations? Or will they just call at the busier station - Ilford and Romford?

btw, Ilford is my local station.
 
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