Class 365 future

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jopsuk

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based on this post in the 387 fleet the Class 365s, all 40, may be spare in the next three years.

Where might they go?

Could they be fitted with new 3rd rail shoes? the first 16 worked as 3rd rail units when new; the rest presumably could be converted anyway? They would seem to have a potential home at Southeastern

Could they be overhauled and put to work on the West Anglia?

Could they go to Wales?

Or do they face premature scrapping? With a flood of new stock, are the last EMUs built for British Rail off for recycling?
 
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D365

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Could they be fitted with new 3rd rail shoes? the first 16 worked as 3rd rail units when new; the rest presumably could be converted anyway? They would seem to have a potential home at Southeastern

Perhaps that may be instead of the rumored Class 319 cascade.

Could they be overhauled and put to work on the West Anglia?

That was one of my thoughts also, 40 units (alongside the LO 710s) would be plenty to replace most of the Class 317s.

Or do they face premature scrapping? With a flood of new stock, are the last EMUs built for British Rail off for recycling?

Unlikely I hope, they're almost as versatile as the Electrostars. A shame that more weren't constructed.
 

petersi

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May be the new 442 (relatively young units, small number, plus other issues)
With the clearance issues and being relatively small number.
I think they may go for scap
 
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158722

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May be the new 442
With the clearance issues and being relatively small number.
I think they may go for scap

There might be a subtle indication of their future by the fact that they are currently having C6 exams and PRM modifications to make them suitable for post-2020 operation. Money being spent on them now to send them for scrap in 3-4 years time?

Notably, no PRM work being undertaken on 317s, unless I'm mistaken.

Anglia for 24 of them vice 317/6s? The 16 DC enabled ones to South Eastern?
 

Kieran1990

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Possibly a move to the North?
Either: the Manchester area to increase capacity/ allow an earlier cascade of the 323's to London Midland.
Leeds- replacing the 321/322's used on Leeds-Donny and Leeds- Bradford/Ilkley/Skipton

Doubt the 16 DC 365s will go back to Southeastern.
The could end up with London Midland

But probably East Anglian duties out of Liverpool Street.
 

507021

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Possibly a move to the North?
Either: the Manchester area to increase capacity/ allow an earlier cascade of the 323's to London Midland.
Leeds- replacing the 321/322's used on Leeds-Donny and Leeds- Bradford/Ilkley/Skipton

The Northern 321/9s, 322s and 323s are being replaced by 43 brand new Class 331s.
 

A0wen

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May be the new 442 (relatively young units, small number, plus other issues)
With the clearance issues and being relatively small number.
I think they may go for scap

Big difference - the 365s are 25kv units, which is the system that is going to be used on pretty much all future mainline electrifications.

Whereas the 442s are long-distance 3rd rail only units. Even on the old 'Southern Region' there are only two or three routes they were suitable for and they've already received new rolling stock.

The 365s should easily find new homes - there are older 25kv units which should be up for replacement before the 365s - the PEPs, early 317s and even potentially 319s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Possibly a move to the North?
Either: the Manchester area to increase capacity/ allow an earlier cascade of the 323's to London Midland.
Leeds- replacing the 321/322's used on Leeds-Donny and Leeds- Bradford/Ilkley/Skipton

Doubt the 16 DC 365s will go back to Southeastern.
The could end up with London Midland

But probably East Anglian duties out of Liverpool Street.

Yes please - happily see them on LM instead of those blasted 319s. A Euston - Northampton journey on a 365 would be nice. Remember them well on the KX services and always liked them.
 

petersi

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There might be a subtle indication of their future by the fact that they are currently having C6 exams and PRM modifications to make them suitable for post-2020 operation. Money being spent on them now to send them for scrap in 3-4 years time?



until recently it was though they were going to great western.

Things change

They are nice units hope they find a home.
 
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TH172341

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I'd say the best place for the 365s would be on the West Anglia routes - certainly allow the replacement of the 317s. I can't see them going to Southeastern - the Class 377s that are due to transfer to SE should cover their need for additional stock, as the extra 377s there should allow all the 465s to be concentrated on the Metro services. I could be wrong though on that point so feel free to correct me!

I've only ridden one class 365 (365512) (a poor record, I know!), but it was good ride and certainly with the refurbishment look ideal units. They still look modern and and perhaps with some air con fitted would be an ideal partner for the Class 321s on the West Anglia routes.
 
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swt_passenger

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How are GWR going to cover the Pad commuter stuff on the number of 387s? Surely not enough?

There will also be some extra AT300/802s of some sort, to be confirmed. However the latest GW 387 & 365 situation is being discussed in the 387 thread.
 
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387star

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Am I correct in thinking they are basically an AC 465 variant? They used to be 465s?

They are well liked that is for sure oddly held in higher regard than the 465s but that maybe because the 465s have never had any serious money spent on their interiors aside from 465/9s
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
Im a fan of all networker verieties although havnt ever ridden a 365
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Out of interest how does their performance compare to a 350/2? If they could keep time on the WCML theyd be far more suited to the LM Birmingham services from EUS and also for Liverpool and any future extentions
 

jopsuk

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Am I correct in thinking they are basically an AC 465 variant? They used to be 465s?

They are well liked that is for sure oddly held in higher regard than the 465s but that maybe because the 465s have never had any serious money spent on their interiors aside from 465/9s

They were an all-new build, not renumbered 465s. Officially the model name was "Networker Express" and they were built to be 100mph trains. The initial batch were built for Kent and spent the best part of ten years working there. Built to be able to be fitted with AC equipment but didn't have it from new. The others (as far as I can tell) were built such that they could be fitted with DC equipment if needed. Not sure if, if fitted with both pick ups, they could theoretically work dual voltage services?
 

Domh245

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But probably East Anglian duties out of Liverpool Street.

That is a possibility. Can anyone say what was asked for in the Greater Anglia bids? ISTR that something to replace the LHCS was on the books, was it specified to be new builds, or could the 365s end up there.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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They were an all-new build, not renumbered 465s. Officially the model name was "Networker Express" and they were built to be 100mph trains. The initial batch were built for Kent and spent the best part of ten years working there. Built to be able to be fitted with AC equipment but didn't have it from new. The others (as far as I can tell) were built such that they could be fitted with DC equipment if needed. Not sure if, if fitted with both pick ups, they could theoretically work dual voltage services?

My recollection is that there were 41 units built with two different specs, 16 for Kent services (DC) and 25 for GN services (AC).
Later when the 375 EMUs arrived the Kent units were transferred to GN routes and converted from DC to AC to make a homogeneous fleet.

They were the last trains ordered for BR (and built at York), and were the first passenger trains to be leased rather than purchased outright.
Somewhere I've read that it is "very unlikely" they could be converted back to DC operation.
They do have a good reputation.
If the 319 fleet continues to perform badly away from Thameslink, I could see them being scrapped in favour of 365s at Northern and LM.
 

class387

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It won't be popular, but could they be used on Stansted Express services so that the Class 379s can replace LHCS on Norwich services?
 

MML

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Makes you wonder whether the Class 365s should eventually move to Northern Electrics, with the Class 319 moving south to bolster Metro services south of the Thames where additional capacity in the rush-hour peak would be welcomed.
 

Whistler40145

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That's a great idea MML, but with new EMUs going to Northern in the future, which services would you use 365s on?
 

Domh245

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It won't be popular, but could they be used on Stansted Express services so that the Class 379s can replace LHCS on Norwich services?

Would 8x23 cars fit at Stansted Airport?

Putting my thinking hat back on, the MML is a possibility, no? At one point, 387s were rumoured to go there to operate Corby services, so could the 387s end up there instead?
 

jopsuk

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the 365s are, like almost all other EMUs, nominally 20m, not 23m. Stansted has two platforms of over 240m
 

Domh245

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the 365s are, like almost all other EMUs, nominally 20m, not 23m. Stansted has two platforms of over 240m

So they are. I'd forgotten that most networkers are 20m and must have had network turbos on the brain.
 

Ianno87

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I presume that Class 365s have no realistic potential of being upped to 110mph capability, given their relative age? Commuting on them several times per week suggests that whilst they have belting acceleration across a decent range, they start to run out of puff about 90/100mph.

This may partially dictate where they end up.
 

jon0844

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Am I correct in thinking they are basically an AC 465 variant? They used to be 465s?

They are well liked that is for sure oddly held in higher regard than the 465s but that maybe because the 465s have never had any serious money spent on their interiors aside from 465/9s
The CIS says BRB Class 465 when they start up on the 365s!
 

Hadders

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May be the new 442 (relatively young units, small number, plus other issues)
With the clearance issues and being relatively small number.
I think they may go for scap

What are the 'other issues'?

The 365s are excellent trains, 2+2 seating in standard and a reasonable first class section for a 'commuter train'. Plus a distinctive 'whining' sound of the motors and a 'smiley' face on the front :D.

Although the recent internal refresh Has 'cheapened' the ambience of the trains I'd be more than happy to see them remain on the Great Northern.
 

jon0844

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The refresh has cheapened the look for sure, but at least they've modified the tables in first so people in the 21st century can actually get into (and out of) their seat!
 

petersi

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What are the 'other issues'?



.

I believe they have foot plates that make then out of gauge for certain part of the network

When they go to ilford these have to be removed

It not just 365's, the class 165 means work in the West Country is being done before the cascade. I do not now if it just having to change platforms or more major works are required
 

dgl

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All this talk of scrapping make happy train very sad :(
 

petersi

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All this talk of scrapping make happy train very sad :(



I know I always enjoy the trip more when it's a 365 instead of a 317 or 321.

I am sure the people in the northwest would rather a 365 over a 319.
 
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