Class 375/377 subclasses.

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ChristopherJ

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Having read the previous thread about 377 subclasses and what they work, can anyone confirm that my list below is a true accuracy of what the orders of 375 and 377 were intended for? Any data I am unsure about I have highlighted in red.

375s

375/3 replaces 411 3-CEP (3 car, single voltage, outer suburban units, to create 11 car trains on the Hastings Line)
375/6 replaces 411 4-CEP (4 car, dual voltage, outer suburban units, intended for use on Thameslink 2000 cross-city services)
375/7 replaces 421 4-CIG (4 car, single voltage, outer suburban units)
375/8 replaces 365 Networker? (4 car, single voltage, outer suburban units)
375/9 replaces 423 4-VEP (4 car, single voltage, high density outer suburban units)

377s

377/1 replaces 421 4-CIG (4 car, single voltage, outer suburban units)
377/2 replaces 319 (4 car, dual voltage, outer suburban units for WLL cross-city services)
377/3 replaces 421 3-COP (3 car, single voltage, regional units for East/West Coastway services)
377/4 replaces 423 4-VEP (3 car, single voltage, high density outer suburban units)
377/5 replaces nothing (4 car, dual voltage, outer suburban, additional 377/2s for Brighton Mainline RUS? - subleased to FCC for Thameslink)
377/6s replaces nothing? (5 car, single or dual voltage?, inner or outer suburban unit?)

I know that the 375/9 and 377/4 high density sets are used predominantly to be coupled to low density sets to increase capacity on peak hour trains, so that half the train is of low density seating for long distance passengers and the other half is high density seating for short distance passengers.

Thanks.
 
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TEW

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377/4s aren't High Density like the 375/9s. 377/4s have the same seating layout as the 377/2s and many of the 377/1s, a mix of 3+2 and 2+2 seating.
 

D365

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456s are used on the Inner South London Line, aren't they? Some (most?) services will be taken over by LO by the end of the year; the 378/1s which will replace them on extended H&I to Clapham services are already in operation.

Nobody knows for sure about the 377/6 specs, but apparently they will fill in for the 375/5s, which will not be released from Thameslink duties for a while. I wonder how Southern manage to cope!
 

swt_passenger

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456s are used on the Inner South London Line, aren't they? Some (most?) services will be taken over by LO by the end of the year; the 378/1s which will replace them on extended H&I to Clapham services are already in operation.
Yes, some are, but the daily diagrams show that by far the majority of the 456s diagrammed each day are not used on the inner SLL.
 

David10

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Yes, some are, but the daily diagrams show that by far the majority of the 456s diagrammed each day are not used on the inner SLL.
Inner SLL occupies 2 456s during the day and in the morning peak 2 x 456s and 1 x 455. So LOROL will release 8 carriages. 456s operate on all southern metro routes as well as services to Caterham, Horsham & Tattenham Corner.
 
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swt_passenger

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Inner SLL occupies during the day and in the morning peak 2 x 456s and 1 x 455. So LOROL will release 8 carriages. 456s operate on all southern metro routes as well as services to Caterham, Horsham & Tattenham Corner.
Thanks for that, I didn't have current diagrams to get the exact numbers. I think what happens is that the SLL inners are about the only place you see a single unit, the 456s that run around in multiple or as part of 6 or 8 car formations with 455s don't get noticed so much.
 

David10

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Thanks for that, I didn't have current diagrams to get the exact numbers. I think what happens is that the SLL inners are about the only place you see a single unit, the 456s that run around in multiple or as part of 6 or 8 car formations with 455s don't get noticed so much.
They do operate as single units on some Caterham and Tattenham Corner services, albeit attaching/detaching at Purley. But yes rare to see them north of Croydon in single formation other than on ISLL services.
 

D365

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Some people seem to be annoyed about losing London Victoria to Bridge; I heard that Southern are going to continue a select few services along the ISSL?
 

pendolino

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They do operate as single units on some Caterham and Tattenham Corner services, albeit attaching/detaching at Purley. But yes rare to see them north of Croydon in single formation other than on ISLL services.
Purley - Tattenham shuttles during the day are 2 car - no attaching/detaching until the last one of the day which a Caterham portion attaches to at Purley to run up to Vic.

(edit: even 2 cars is too much for those, it would probably a lot cheaper to stick the passengers in a taxi)

I don't know if they're still diagrammed as such, but there used to be a 2 car on a mid morning Vic-Epsom, and another on London Bridge - West Croydon via Tulse Hill for much of the day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some people seem to be annoyed about losing London Victoria to Bridge; I heard that Southern are going to continue a select few services along the ISSL?
London Bridge to Beckenham/West Croydon will both continue to run on the South London as far as Peckham Rye. Not sure about through services to Vic via Denmark Hill though; from what I've heard we will be losing them altogether from December with the up/down Atlantic lines eventually severed from the Brighton lines at Battersea Park to allow the platforms at Battersea to be extended. But this is mess room talk so I don't how true it is. But if it is true, it would mean South Londons as they are now wouldn't be able to continue (other than by missing Battersea out and going via Stewarts Lane I suppose).
 
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swt_passenger

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London Bridge to Beckenham/West Croydon will both continue to run on the South London as far as Peckham Rye. Not sure about through services to Vic via Denmark Hill though; from what I've heard we will be losing them altogether from December with the up/down Atlantic lines eventually severed from the Brighton lines at Battersea Park to allow the platforms at Battersea to be extended. But this is mess room talk so I don't how true it is. But if it is true, it would mean South Londons as they are now wouldn't be able to continue (other than by missing Battersea out and going via Stewarts Lane I suppose).
AIUI they hope eventually to add some stops to certain Southeastern services into Victoria, but SN will not be running anything towards Victoria via the SLL.

There's an explanation of all the options and the final proposals in a TfL report here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/15403.aspx
 

David10

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One of the suggestions was for LOROL to operate a few peak hour services into Victoria instead of Clapham Jct, but this was ruled out as abstracting revenue or something similar. Won't be an issue of course should the Mayor of London get his was and Southern's inner London services transferred to LOROL.
 

cav1975

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Personally I avoid the 375/9s if I can, they are very uncomfortable when crowded

Is there any real difference between the 375/7s and 375/8s?

Has anyone calculated how much energy has been wasted carrying the pantographs and transformers around on the 375/6s?
 

Class377/5

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377/5 replaces nothing (4 car, dual voltage, outer suburban, additional 377/2s for Brighton Mainline RUS? - subleased to FCC for Thameslink)
377/6s replaces nothing? (5 car, single or dual voltage?, inner or outer suburban unit?)
377/5 initial order to cover for 319's going to FCC, later expanded order directed to FCC to in part cover for the 319's taking over duties of the 465/466's on Sevenoaks services.

377/6 order to cover for 377/5 (due to order for 700's running late) and the 456's going to SWT. The 377/6 are DC only units that will help to allow all services via Balham be 10 car by December 2013.
 
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bgstrowger

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Personally I avoid the 375/9s if I can, they are very uncomfortable when crowded

Is there any real difference between the 375/7s and 375/8s?

Has anyone calculated how much energy has been wasted carrying the pantographs and transformers around on the 375/6s?
Aside from some cosmetic differences, such as interior layout, I think the only difference between the 357/7 and 375/8 is the shoegear.

That and I find, despite the seats being the same, the cushions on the 375/8s feel slightly harder than the 375/6s & 375/7s.

The 375/9s are vile and should have the 3+2 seating replaced with 2+2.
 
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Is there any real difference between the 375/7s and 375/8s?
The luggage racks on the 375/7s are solid perspex, whilst on 375/8s they are metal/plastic with holes. This helpful 375/8 feature allows rain from umbrellas and bags to drop down onto the unwary commuter that chooses a window seat.

But yes, other than some other minor grab-rail features around the vestibules, they are to all intents and purposes identical.
 

Jedipickles

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Is there any real difference between the 375/7s and 375/8s?
The lights are different and 375801-20 have de-icing equipment and the interior door open/close buttons are different shape, size, colour and position (i.e. on one the open button is at the top and in the other it's the bottom button).

Also the MSOL is closer to the A end with the 375/7 and closer to the B end with the 375/8 i believe - i could be wrong on that one though!

But to your average passenger, there are no major differences
 

455driver

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I notice xplo42 hasnt even got the decency to thank any posters on his own thread! :roll:

Maybe he thinks we are being paid (by somebody else of course) to provide him with the information and so do not need to be thanked! :lol:

I am off here for a couple of weeks now before I post something that will get me another infraction for biting at some {self delete ;)} again.

See you round chaps/ chapesses.
 

317 forever

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My least favourite 375s are the South Eastern ones with grey seating. I like the green seating on Southern class 377s. This and the livery seems like a modern application of old-fashioned Southern green!
 

Jedipickles

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My least favourite 375s are the South Eastern ones with grey seating
No 375's have grey seating, they all have dark blue seat covers now

and Only 6/7 weeks until they are dragged away one by one to be refurbed :D
They should have new traction equipment as well as the new 375 livery (it's already been done on 375705) and the picture is mine before any copyright mad people jump on me :!:

and my least favourite 375's are the 375/3's - 3 car hell boxes! and my favourite is clearly the 375/8's :p
 

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Temple

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Only 6/7 weeks until they are dragged away one by one to be refurbed :D
Just out of curiosity, I know it's deviating from the topic, sorry, but is this a definite 6/7 weeks? I can't find anywhere details on when the 375 refurb and livery change is happening! Some places say late 2012, but no specifics. Much prefer the livery on 375705!
 

Class377/5

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Just out of curiosity, I know it's deviating from the topic, sorry, but is this a definite 6/7 weeks? I can't find anywhere details on when the 375 refurb and livery change is happening! Some places say late 2012, but no specifics. Much prefer the livery on 375705!
No 375's have grey seating, they all have dark blue seat covers now

and Only 6/7 weeks until they are dragged away one by one to be refurbed :D
They should have new traction equipment as well as the new 375 livery (it's already been done on 375705) and the picture is mine before any copyright mad people jump on me :!:

and my least favourite 375's are the 375/3's - 3 car hell boxes! and my favourite is clearly the 375/8's :p
It be after the Paralympic games end 9th September that any wok will start on units.

And why so down on the 375/3? They aren't that different from the 375's generally.
 

Jedipickles

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Is it just me or do the two doors on the 375 pictured look different?
Yeah, the first door has darker bits by the windows for some reason

and it's not confirmed 6/7 weeks, I heard it was August the start date, but with the Olympics and that, it wont start before October biggest bet :(
 
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Saw a 375 passing the depot near Hither Green today. The dark blue colour has been continued onto the areas underneath the doors etc to keep a nice uniform look.

Well it would if it had been done on every carriage! Hopefully this is just a work in progress, but knowing the SE tendency for multiple versions of one livery, maybe not. ;)
 

Temple

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Is it just me or do the two doors on the 375 pictured look different?
There is a reason for this I'm sure, I just can't think of it. I think it's to symbolize which end of the train has the disabled toilet and disabled access/area. Could be wrong!
 

317 forever

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No 375's have grey seating, they all have dark blue seat covers now

and Only 6/7 weeks until they are dragged away one by one to be refurbed :D
They should have new traction equipment as well as the new 375 livery (it's already been done on 375705) and the picture is mine before any copyright mad people jump on me :!:

and my least favourite 375's are the 375/3's - 3 car hell boxes! and my favourite is clearly the 375/8's :p
Oh yes, I rode a blue-seated example in April but didn't realise this was the start of a refreshment programme. I shall ride the stock again in August to stay with friends in Orpington and ride some bus services in Olympic Games areas of London.
 

ng1980

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I have only rode on the 375s and 377s less than 10 times, but when you regularly ride 465, 466 and 376, it's a nice change to have a 375 or 377.

I usually rode them when visiting friends further out of London, but about two or three times they replaced 465/466/376 on my usual routes, which was of course a pleasant surprise!

I am aware that 465/466/376 are intended for shorter routes, but especially with stopping patterns you can be sat on them for longer than many 375/377 passengers!
 

MK Tom

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I was going to create a new thread but I thought it better to revive this one instead - I was just wondering if anyone can tell me if a 375/6 has ever used its pantograph? Why were units used exclusively on the third rail network delivered with pantos? If they were to be used in the future, would they need replacing now they've been in the down position for a decade?
 
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