Class 387 to GN

[387star]

Gatwick express are placing new signage at Gatwick airport with yellow writing

 

[Class377/5]

Gatwick express are placing new signage at Gatwick airport with yellow writing

This is the GN 387 thread so your post is off topic.

 

[Failed Unit]

The joys of the twitter feed. "We have some good news". Typical response you - you have enough drivers to run the service or you are leaving the franchise. Although must admit I would prefer enough staff to run the trains they already have.

Looking forward to them, it will be odd going on 387s on the services that stop at new Barnet etc.

 

[Class455]

I would have thought the 387's would also receive blue doors, replacing the Southern style door livery if they were being retained.

 

[Bishopstone]

First Class at one end or both, on the GN 387s?

I thought they might use the dedicated area behind doors in one driving coach, as per Gatwick Express, but the picture linked above appears to show a yellow cantrail over the ten seats behind the cab, only, as per Thameslink.

In my (limited) experience, there is a reasonable amount of First Class traffic on the Kings Cross - Cambridge fasts throughout the day.

 

[Failed Unit]

First Class at one end or both, on the GN 387s?

I thought they might use the dedicated area behind doors in one driving coach, as per Gatwick Express, but the picture linked above appears to show a yellow cantrail over the ten seats behind the cab, only, as per Thameslink.

In my (limited) experience, there is a reasonable amount of First Class traffic on the Kings Cross - Cambridge fasts throughout the day.

I guess considering the seats are the same they can do whatever they want. My money would be behind the cabs to keep it consistent with the 365s. At least people know where to find it.

 

[superalbs]

First Class is at both ends, a la Class 365: https://www.flickr.com/photos/105285627@N06/29796839061/

 

[Bishopstone]

First Class is at both ends, a la Class 365: https://www.flickr.com/photos/105285627@N06/29796839061/

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[387star]

This is the GN 387 thread so your post is off topic.

True but was in reply to whoever said Gatwick express old branding is still everywhere

 

[Class377/5]

True but was in reply to whoever said Gatwick express old branding is still everywhere

No your post was about Gatwick Station which is more to do with the airport than GX. But again it's still off topic.

 

[crazystripe]

Are we thinking that the doors are going to stay dark green???! Surely light blue is how they should be. At the moment they look a mess, with the GN logo midway between the doors.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I get the impression that this livery is not final.
It lacks the Stripes which the 365s have as well as the logo is a lot smaller than expected. Rush job by the looks.

Some things such as the Third Rail gear looks to have been retained which is a little odd..

Thanks,
Ross

 

[tsr]

No your post was about Gatwick Station which is more to do with the airport than GX. But again it's still off topic.

Entrances to the station (for the public, anyway) and airport signage are very much the airport's domain, but signage designs and branding within the station are pretty tightly controlled by GTR. I'm not saying it's always been controlled brilliantly, especially by predecessors, mind. Also, of course, what's actually placed on the signs regularly involves Gatwick Airport's input on strategy for things like crowd control and prioritising which facilities are advertised, which varies hugely in how sensible it actually is.

 

[swt_passenger]

Some things such as the Third Rail gear looks to have been retained which is a little odd...

Not that odd once you consider the brand new units for GWR still came with shoe gear. It provides long term flexibility, and as seen with some of the LM 350/1s, there's no point in removing it if it can just sit in the raised position out of danger...

 

[jon0844]

Entrances to the station (for the public, anyway) and airport signage are very much the airport's domain, but signage designs and branding within the station are pretty tightly controlled by GTR. I'm not saying it's always been controlled brilliantly, especially by predecessors, mind. Also, of course, what's actually placed on the signs regularly involves Gatwick Airport's input on strategy for things like crowd control and prioritising which facilities are advertised, which varies hugely in how sensible it actually is.

What's with the bright blue LED lighting on some parts of the platforms? Branding? To deal with drug users injecting on the platforms?! (how's that for off topic?!)

 

[ungreat]

Passing Hornsey earlier i saw two Great Northern branded 387s. Rather looking forward to driving them in service

 

[physics34]

What's with the bright blue LED lighting on some parts of the platforms? Branding? To deal with drug users injecting on the platforms?! (how's that for off topic?!)

not knowing if you really know the answer to that or not.......... apparantly its to "calm down" potential suicidal people.

 

[jon0844]

not knowing if you really know the answer to that or not.......... apparantly its to "calm down" potential suicidal people.

Hmm. I know light (and different colour temperatures) can change moods, but genuinely didn't know that.

Given how frustrated everyone looked yesterday trying to squeeze on to an 8 car TL train, as two London Bridge trains (at least) were cancelled due to no drivers, and no Victoria trains, I can imagine they might need a few more of them until this mess can be sorted.

(I realise engineering work needs to be done, but then you really want no more cancelled trains!)

 

[class387]

On the Thameslink website it says the following regarding the introduction of the 387s on GN:

The first air-conditioned train to run on Great Northern will serve the following stations: Ashwell & Morden; Baldock; Cambridge; Finsbury Park; Foxton; Hatfield; Hitchin; Knebworth; Kings Cross; Letchworth Gdn City; Meldreth; Potters Bar; Royston; Shepreth; Stevenage; Welwyn Garden City; Welwyn North; then later, next year, the route from Cambridge to King’s Lynn

http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/air-conditioned-trains-breeze-on-to-great-northern-this-autumn/

Does this mean they will first be introduced on Cambridge locals?

 

[jon0844]

Do we have any dates yet? I saw 8 cars parked up in the sidings at Welwyn Garden City today. What I forgot to check was if it had TL or GN logos on it!

 

[D365]

Bearing in mind that they are fitted with SDO, it might make sense to introduce them on the Cambridge locals first, until the Class 700s start coming into operation on Great Northern.

 

[Failed Unit]

On the Thameslink website it says the following regarding the introduction of the 387s on GN:

http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/air-conditioned-trains-breeze-on-to-great-northern-this-autumn/

Does this mean they will first be introduced on Cambridge locals?

The will be on current 321 / 317 diagrams.

Unless they change they will need to go to Peterborough as well as they interwork. Peterborough slow turns into Cambridge slow upon arrival at kings cross. So we will see them on the 0.05 and 0.35 services. Not sure about the x22 and x52s off peak.

Be interesting if the peak will change with coaches detached at various points.

 

[notverydeep]

The will be on current 321 / 317 diagrams.

Unless they change they will need to go to Peterborough as well as they interwork. Peterborough slow turns into Cambridge slow upon arrival at kings cross. So we will see them on the 0.05 and 0.35 services. Not sure about the x22 and x52s off peak.

Be interesting if the peak will change with coaches detached at various points.

A 30.9% reduction in seating capacity compared to a class 317/3 (and 321s have even more seats than 317s).

I'm going to have to get used to standing from Welwyn Garden City on the 08:25 or move to the trains that start at WGC and serve the 'Barnet Group' en-route to King's Cross. In the PM Peak these are the trains at XX28 and XX58. They are a motley collection of formations from single 4 car 365 to pairs of 313s or 321s, taking 12 minutes longer.

Still, it could be worse. Presumably 387s on these diagrams will only last until RLU 700s reach the GN area later in 2017. They have 36.8% fewer seats than a pair of 317/3s.

Reading the Thameslink 2018 timetable consultation Knebworth, Welwyn North and Welwyn Garden City will not get any improvement in peak frequency or train length. And the now faster trains will also stop at Hatfield and Potters Bar, extending run times and maybe limiting services to the slow lines.

I was involved in another upgrade to new trains on a London commuter route to trains with fewer seats, but at least we could offer the affected passengers a significant run time improvement and the same number of seats spread over an increased frequency at the end of it...

 

[jon0844]

I don't think it's too bad to have a choice of standing for a fast train service (I used to stand on the 0730 Hatfield train, first stop Finsbury Park, and it was so quick I never really cared as long as I could use my phone) and taking a slower service with a guaranteed seat (at least for those at WGC and Hatfield, and also usually Potters Bar and New Barnet). By New Southgate, you're now down to a relatively short distance and you just want to be able to get on the train, not find a seat.

Less seats = more standing room = more people moved. I think that's more important.

I can see myself using 717s more from 2018, simply because of the increased service frequency and the fact that there will be some trains that will skip stops. Yes, it may mean a longer overall journey time, but not if I can get a train before the current fast train would arrive, meaning I still arrive in London earlier.

 

[bramling]

I don't think it's too bad to have a choice of standing for a fast train service (I used to stand on the 0730 Hatfield train, first stop Finsbury Park, and it was so quick I never really cared as long as I could use my phone) and taking a slower service with a guaranteed seat (at least for those at WGC and Hatfield, and also usually Potters Bar and New Barnet). By New Southgate, you're now down to a relatively short distance and you just want to be able to get on the train, not find a seat.

Less seats = more standing room = more people moved. I think that's more important.

I can see myself using 717s more from 2018, simply because of the increased service frequency and the fact that there will be some trains that will skip stops. Yes, it may mean a longer overall journey time, but not if I can get a train before the current fast train would arrive, meaning I still arrive in London earlier.

That's all well and good for those positioned closer to London, but becomes less desirable further out. Your model now becomes a choice of a not-so-quick stand on a fast service, or even longer sitting on a slow service.

With the standing option being less attractive for the longer journey, more people are likely to choose the stopping train.

All of a sudden, your choice at Hatfield disappears because your fast trains at Hatfield are the self-same trains that are someone else's stopping train, meaning they will be fuller when they reach Hatfield, perhaps to the point of not being able carry all the people who wish to board.

As people travel further, the value of a seat naturally becomes more important to them. At places like Hitchin the value of seats to commuters can be clearly seen in the morning peak by the way many people will arrive on the platform up to 20 minutes before their service to secure a spot where they know the doors are likely to stop. Woe betide if the train stops slightly wide of the mark and a late arrival manages to board first!

I think the general consensus is that 20 mins is considered to be the point at which people find standing ceases to become acceptable. On the GN route that basically means nearly everything north of Hatfield, give or take the odd non-stop service to places like Knebworth or Stevenage (which may disappear under Thameslink!).

 

[Marklund]

On the Thameslink website it says the following regarding the introduction of the 387s on GN:

http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/air-conditioned-trains-breeze-on-to-great-northern-this-autumn/

Air-conditioned trains will be breezing onto the Great Northern route for the first time ever next month, as the rail firm gives passengers cooler, more comfortable journeys between the capital and Peterborough and Cambridge.

I'm guessing the air conditioned stock from Mark 2D onwards from Peterborough to London doesn't count for anything in marketing hyperbole these days :roll:

 

[D365]

I thought that the middle seats on 3+2 seated units were never used... Can't please some people can we...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm guessing the air conditioned stock from Mark 2D onwards from Peterborough to London doesn't count for anything in marketing hyperbole these days :roll:

Did those ever operate on the suburban trains?

 

[Marklund]

Did those ever operate on the suburban trains?

The marketing doesn't quantify only suburban trains though!

I could be wrong but there were class 91 + Mark 3 stock used on slow trains during the very early days of the electrified ECML, before the electric services expanded north of Peterborough.

 

[D365]

The marketing doesn't quantify only suburban trains though!

I could be wrong but there were class 91 + Mark 3 stock used on slow trains during the very early days of the electrified ECML, before the electric services expanded north of Peterborough.

Alas, that would have been before my time. Though I have stopped at Huntingdon on an IC225

 

[bramling]

I thought that the middle seats on 3+2 seated units were never used... Can't please some people can we...

This is a complete myth.

Anyone who believes this to be true should take a peak-time class 317 or 321 service into or out of King's Cross -- or a class 313 service.

Whilst it's very true that the middle seats will generally be the last to be taken, they are most definitely used.