Fincra5
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 2,490
That would mean more guards would have to be employed... I very much doubt that would happen.
Don't forget that many of the routes the 377/6s are meant for cannot take longer than 10-car trains. London metro route stations are being extended from 8-car platforms to 10-car platforms in many places. The use of 12-car trains is not possible. Wait another 20 years and perhaps some more platform lengthening will occur but it will be hard to squeeze longer platforms in places where a 25% increase has just been achieved.
Don't forget that many of the routes the 377/6s are meant for cannot take longer than 10-car trains. London metro route stations are being extended from 8-car platforms to 10-car platforms in many places. The use of 12-car trains is not possible. Wait another 20 years and perhaps some more platform lengthening will occur but it will be hard to squeeze longer platforms in places where a 25% increase has just been achieved.
Point taken. Is 10 cars the generally accepted limit for DOO without additional staff then?
Nope. Plenty of 12 car DOO services running around.
Southern aren't the only TOC with a 10-car limit on DOO though. C2C can only run DOO services up to 8-carriages, their 12-car trains in the peak run with guards.
12 car trains for southeastern metro will almost certainly be DOO when they begin which should have been last month.
It has constantly been put back. SE announced it starting in January but that has been and gone. Stations and power upgrades are done from what I've heard. Maybe it's lack of stock - they don't have enough for 6-10 car running on most routes.
Well they will be getting the 377/1's so that will probably free up any 465/9's so that they can run the 12-car services.
The 377 transfer to SE has never fitted with the dates announced for their 12 car services, surely? Yes it may solve the problem in the long run, but I don't think it can have been the original intention.
12 car trains for southeastern metro will almost certainly be DOO when they begin which should have been last month.
It has constantly been put back. SE announced it starting in January but that has been and gone. Stations and power upgrades are done from what I've heard. Maybe it's lack of stock - they don't have enough for 6-10 car running on most routes.
Not informed speculation now as FGW have publicly stated they want the units and are in talks with the DfT over getting them. No-one else has said they want the units publicly.
Of course the units are to replace four car units makes it sensible to do that with four cars especially when you plan to cascade them else where in the future.
Don't confuse onboard staff as having to be guards only. Passengers would be fine with someone, but it doesn't have to be a guard. In fact if you asked do you want someone that does purely customer services action or a guard they'd say the former.
Although this is off the point of the thread.
Whatever - look at it how you like - 4 cars are becoming more and more inadequate on the longer distance Southern services - I see this all the time. 6 cars with layouts similar to the old slam door would be ideal.
Take the best features of what you have and combine it with new gear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does it really matter whether it's a guard, a conductor, revenue protection, a BT Police officer? My point is that passengers will prefer staffed trains and I cannot understand why they shouldn't have a small office where they can securely keep their gear and take a seat at quiet times. The days of a guard with feet up and reading the paper are long gone - and give BR credit - that had been largely knocked on the head in the years leading up to privatisation.
4 cars for longer Southern services are more and more inadequate - I travel off peak for my shifts and they frequently have to cram them in. 6 cars would be better with a layout similar to the slam doors which had plenty of room for bikes and a small office for on train staff.
They should have taken the best features of the slam doors and combined that with the new stock.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim their question is a "quick question" and the answer turn out to be quick..Quick Question. ....
...Here's a recently updated thread..
I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim their question is a "quick question" and the answer turn out to be quick..
I will now merge the threads, as that would seem to make sense...
Quick answer - it hasn't been decided yet. It has been debated in a number of previous threads about 387s in this sub-forum, GWML and MML seem to be the most widely suggested.
The 387s will be four car dual voltage, but 110 mph, so the nearest and most recent similar variant would possibly be the 377/5.
Here's a recently updated thread, there are quite a few of them: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=92831
Page 4 of that thread included interior layout details...
I would think it's almost certain they will look like the 377/6s and /7s and the 379s though, and not like the 377/5s.The 387s will be four car dual voltage, but 110 mph, so the nearest and most recent similar variant would possibly be the 377/5.
The 5 car trains are designed for the inner suburban routes that are currently still being lengthened to 10 car - as mentioned in the above post. (This possibly accounts for them being 'run-in' in areas where they are not expected to work in the medium term.) AFAICS the number of 5 car units and thus 10 car sets, seems just about right for the relevant inner suburban routes, allowing for the fact that the 456s are notionally being replaced by some of the 377/6 extra capacity.
The 12 car services are mostly longer distance services, and they can initially be augmented from 8 to 12 using displaced 4 car units. But they obviously see a future surplus of 4 car units, as they are intending to transfer a load out of the franchise later, e.g. to Southeastern in 2017...
They would get transferred to Southeastern?