Class 387

[Peter Sarf]

I would just like to add that, as far as train length goes a 10-car 442 formation is about the same length as a 12-car 387 formation. So that is 48 1st class seats in the old (my beloved !) Gatwick Express versus 60 1st class seats in the 387s (granted its only 30 seats if only one end of each 4-car unit is 1st class).

I recall noticing that both 442s and 444s have longer coaches btw (about 23m), making 5-cars roughly equivalent to 6-cars (about 20m) of normal units. I think it is only classes 185, 380, 442 & 444 that are 23m, though possibly 700s also ?.

 

[D365]

... though possibly 700s also ?.

Class 700/Desiro City uses 20m coaches. Although the Crossrail Class 345 is 23m.

 

[TH172341]

CAF's 332s and 333s are 23m, and also the Class 168, 170s and 172s also have a 23m body length.

Quite incredible when you put down those figures what effect a few metres have on capacity cumulatively across a formation!

 

[47802]

It is subjective, I agree, but I actually meant the interior, with the clash of red and sky blue. I also like the Southern livery (I assume you were referring to the exterior?) - one of the few things Southern ever got close to right in my opinion!

I was referring to the interior, I think the Blue is OK, Southern Exterior is OK don't like the washed out Green Seat Colour much, the red is a welcome change

 

[cjmillsnun]

It is subjective, I agree, but I actually meant the interior, with the clash of red and sky blue. I also like the Southern livery (I assume you were referring to the exterior?) - one of the few things Southern ever got close to right in my opinion!

Lets face it, it was far better than what went before (Connex grime) Although I feel that the SWT liveries have stood the test of time better.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Lets face it, it was far better than what went before (Connex grime) Although I feel that the SWT liveries have stood the test of time better.

Yuck. That Connex livery - always looked like something was missing. Its still hanging around (on) Southeastern !. I think SWT must put their trains through the carriage washer more than other TOCs. I remember once walking up to a very dirty 319 and wondering if I wanted to touch the door open button, considered trying to use my foot/shoe instead.

 

[urpert]

Yuck. That Connex livery - always looked like something was missing. Its still hanging around (on) Southeastern !. I think SWT must put their trains through the carriage washer more than other TOCs. I remember once walking up to a very dirty 319 and wondering if I wanted to touch the door open button, considered trying to use my foot/shoe instead.

Someone on here made the point a while ago (Neil?) that Stagecoach seem to care much more about the presentation of their bus and train fleets than other operators. It's certainly the case with their London bus operations.

 

[LBSCR Times]

387201 is out working with 387103 today, on the following services;-

04.46 Bedford to Brighton
07.48 Brighton to Bedford
10.40 Bedford to Brighton
13.35 Brighton to Bedford
16.26 Bedford to Brighton
19.33 Brighton to Bedford
22.22 Bedford to Brighton

 

[Class377/5]

Yuck. That Connex livery - always looked like something was missing. Its still hanging around (on) Southeastern !. I think SWT must put their trains through the carriage washer more than other TOCs. I remember once walking up to a very dirty 319 and wondering if I wanted to touch the door open button, considered trying to use my foot/shoe instead.

Or perhaps it's the fact that Siemens likes to sell its trains with a maintenance deal and is partly responsible for how clean all the trains are unlike say Bombardier who sell the trains but don't operate any depots?

It's telling that Bombardier's first maintenance deal is the clas 345 (Crossrail demanded it in the ITT IIRC) where as the class 707 is Siemens first non maintenance train order. (actually, not sure the deal with the 360s).

As a result Siemens builds things like train washes into its depots to ensure the units all get a clean regularly as part of the deal.

 

[asylumxl]

It's telling that Bombardier's first maintenance deal is the clas 345 (Crossrail demanded it in the ITT IIRC) where as the class 707 is Siemens first non maintenance train order. (actually, not sure the deal with the 360s).

I know Central Rivers TMD is owned by Bombardier. Do they not also operate it?

 

[trainmania100]

Attached
387 combo at Preston Park This Morning

Video will be up shortly on trainmania100 youtube if interested

 

[Class377/5]

I know Central Rivers TMD is owned by Bombardier. Do they not also operate it?

I'll be honest, I dont know.

 

[Brian Aylott]

Or perhaps it's the fact that Siemens likes to sell its trains with a maintenance deal and is partly responsible for how clean all the trains are unlike say Bombardier who sell the trains but don't operate any depots?

It's telling that Bombardier's first maintenance deal is the clas 345 (Crossrail demanded it in the ITT IIRC) where as the class 707 is Siemens first non maintenance train order. (actually, not sure the deal with the 360s)/QUOTE]

The above is far from the truth
Central Rivers, East Ham, New Cross Gate etc, etc - Bombardier Maintenance
Brian

 

[coppercapped]

Or perhaps it's the fact that Siemens likes to sell its trains with a maintenance deal and is partly responsible for how clean all the trains are unlike say Bombardier who sell the trains but don't operate any depots?

SNIP!

SWT/Stagecoach likes to keep its trains clean. The stock allocated to Salisbury and Wimbledon is also well presented - it's not just the Siemens maintained stock that's clean.

It's probably a lot to do with the priorities of Stagecoach's Engineering Director, Christian Roth. Ex-Siemens and now Managing Director of South West Trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT/Stagecoach likes to keep its trains clean. The stock allocated to Salisbury and Wimbledon is also well presented - it's not just the Siemens maintained stock that's clean.

It's also sometimes forgotten that Siemens only see the SWT Desiros periodically, someone has posted before that they only go to the Siemens facility at Northam (Southampton) about once every 10 -12 days or so, on rotation.

The vast majority of the time they are stabled, cleaned and tanked at other locations under the care of SWT staff. AIUI Strawberry Hill has some outstationed technicians but it is still basically an SWT staffed depot.

AIUI from previous discussions a significant proportion of the Thameslink fleet will not return to Siemens each night either. IIRC Class377/5 came up with a likely ratio of stock to be outberthed each night quite a while back. Not as high as the 450/444, but still quite a few trains.

 

[class387]

Hi,
I will be going to London tomorrow from St Albans. Does anyone know the 387/2 diagrams?
Any time will be okay.
Thanks

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi,
I will be going to London tomorrow from St Albans. Does anyone know the 387/2 diagrams?
Any time will be okay.
Thanks

Welcome to the forum.

It was pointed out earlier in the thread that the 387/2 can turn up anywhere a 387/1 might, it hasn't got specific diagrams, so there'll be no way of predicting it in advance.

Someone with insider knowledge may be able to report it once the service starts up in the morning...

 

[class387]

Welcome to the forum.

It was pointed out earlier in the thread that the 387/2 can turn up anywhere a 387/1 might, it hasn't got specific diagrams, so there'll be no way of predicting it in advance.

Someone with insider knowledge may be able to report it once the service starts up in the morning...

Thank you.

 

[MK Tom]

Well, 387 201 was looking garish this morning sandwiched in the middle of the 0730 from Bedford.

It's very very poorly defined where First Class begins and ends.

For comparison here is first on a 442: https://www.flickr.com/photos/darlo2009/14743430612

I can see anyone who's used to getting this for a first class ticket being very unhappy with literally the same seating as standard class.

 

[MatthewRead]

Can anyone give me a 387/2 diagram for tomorrow

 

[grid56126]

387208 & 387209 (both in Gatex branding) moved from Stewarts Lane to Tilgate Sidings today.

387206 currently resides in Gatwick Sidings for movement to (probably) Streatham Hill tomorrow.

 

[swt_passenger]

Can anyone give me a 387/2 diagram for tomorrow

Please refer to my post earlier today. Any passenger use will not be predictable.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Please refer to my post earlier today. Any passenger use will not be predictable.

And it is.....
06.35 Brighton to Bedford
09.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
11.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
14.40 Bedford to Brighton
17.35 Brighton to Bedford

Of course circumstances might change and it could get altered, but that's the workings as of now!

 

[southern442]

For comparison here is first on a 442: https://www.flickr.com/photos/darlo2009/14743430612

I can see anyone who's used to getting this for a first class ticket being very unhappy with literally the same seating as standard class.

Just goes to show how little they care about passenger experience and will just throw RIBs at anything to keep the costs down.



RIB=Regulation Ironing Board

 

[leaffall]

I think the poor first class product on the GX 387s is particularly cynical given that many of the passengers will have just arrived in the UK and if they buy their first class ticket in advance or at the airport, as opposed to onboard they will be none the wiser until they're on the train. Welcome to rip-off Britain

 

[Goldfish62]

SWT/Stagecoach likes to keep its trains clean. The stock allocated to Salisbury and Wimbledon is also well presented - it's not just the Siemens maintained stock that's clean.

If you're refering to the 455s, yes. I beg to differ with other rolling stock. The 458/5s generally filthy inside, following on from the fine tradition of their unrefurbished selves. The Desiros are generally reasonably clean inside, but the 444s are brown with encrusted dirt on the outside and even the 450s mostly have a film of black dirt covering the front end. Standards have definitely declined.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think the poor first class product on the GX 387s is particularly cynical given that many of the passengers will have just arrived in the UK and if they buy their first class ticket in advance or at the airport, as opposed to onboard they will be none the wiser until they're on the train. Welcome to rip-off Britain

I can see the first class in 387/2st preventing any visitors to this country considering the purchase of first class rail travel in future. Suppose some airline passengers were going onwards to, say Manchester, they would not pay Virgin for Virgins real first class once they had learnt their lesson on Gatwick Express.

To me it is obvious that first class is to be discontinued and I can accept that. However, in the meantime, to sell first class tickets for a product that is not really distinguishable from second/standard class is in my view not very honest. Not a good advert for the UK.

 

[southern442]

I can see the first class in 387/2st preventing any visitors to this country considering the purchase of first class rail travel in future. Suppose some airline passengers were going onwards to, say Manchester, they would not pay Virgin for Virgins real first class once they had learnt their lesson on Gatwick Express.

To me it is obvious that first class is to be discontinued and I can accept that. However, in the meantime, to sell first class tickets for a product that is not really distinguishable from second/standard class is in my view not very honest. Not a good advert for the UK.

It's making people pay more money for nothing! There has to be something somewhere in the law to say that this sort of thing is illegal. You wouldn't charge people extra for a premium hotel room that is no different to the other ones, you wouldn't charge someone extra for a premium item of furniture that is no different to the other items, yet they do it for first class on some trains! This has to be fraud or at least unfair trading.

 

[fowler9]

It's making people pay more money for nothing! There has to be something somewhere in the law to say that this sort of thing is illegal. You wouldn't charge people extra for a premium hotel room that is no different to the other ones, you wouldn't charge someone extra for a premium item of furniture that is no different to the other items, yet they do it for first class on some trains! This has to be fraud or at least unfair trading.

It is just the race to the bottom our neo liberal society is taking part in. First class now means you get a seat without someones bum in your face, and if people are willing to pay who is to argue. The markets rule.

 

[JonathanH]

If they were planning to get rid of first class, why would the units be specified with a partition in the 421xxx carriage?

Thameslink services only appear to need ten first class seats in each unit and that is how things are currently set up. What is to say that future users of the 387s (inclink Gatwick Express) won't use the full compartment as first class?