Class 458/5

[455driver]

By the way do some of the new 458s have different windows, until today they have seemed to be blackish looking and oblong along the edges, but this morning I saw one 458 and the windows seems to be blue and have curved corners.

The 458/0s had curved window corners so the one you saw would have been 458502 (ex 458002) all the others running at the moment (458531-536) are completely made up of ex class 460s which have ribbon glazing which looks like a complete black panel.

One intermediate coach in 458502 is ex class 460 so that one coach will have the ribbon glazing, this will also apply to one coach in all of 458501-530 when they are converted.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

By the way do some of the new 458s have different windows, until today they have seemed to be blackish looking and oblong along the edges, but this morning I saw one 458 and the windows seems to be blue and have curved corners.

That'll be the difference between the former 458/0 and 460 vehicles - they retained their original glazing.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

That'll be the difference between the former 458/0 and 460 vehicles - they retained their original glazing.

Oh right, the 460s being the old Gatwick express units I presume?

 

[traji00]

Oh right, the 460s being the old Gatwick express units I presume?

Indeed they were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hassaanhc]

The plot thickens...

The following are shown as running with 10 coaches instead of 5:
2R19 0945 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2S29 1122 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S38 1303 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V39 1437 London Waterloo to London Waterloo

While the following are 4 coaches instead of 5:
2S23 0952 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S32 1133 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V33 1307 London Waterloo to London Waterloo

However, the Windsor diagram train expired:
2U17 0828 London Waterloo to Clapham Junction {This service was cancelled between Clapham Junction and Windsor & Eton Riverside due to a problem under investigation (MZ).} (following service for it is shown on JourneyCheck as cancelled due to train fault, so same probably applies to this too).
2U24 0953 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo (cancelled)

 

[randompixel]

It was having trouble closing some doors on the trip into London

 

[James Wake]

458535 and 502 last night on 1746 Feltham to Waterloo, took almost a minute for the left hand doors to release at Whitton, and almost 5 minutes then to get them all closed at Richmond. The guard during this time made no announcements at all, and the PIS was broken, except the destination display on the front of the train. Seemed to me the guard was someone who doesn't like making announcements.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I was on 531 as a single.533 was running as a single also.saw 502 and 532...One was working with 534 and the other with 535...I suspect 502+535 were together but not fully sure.One went to the train hospital via East Putney and passed me @ Wandsworth Town somewhere near 10am.I was on my first trip...a 455.

Times wrong there it was 1120 @ Wandsworth Town...459 went past with a colas 70/8 coming the other way....same as yesterday...Groundhog day.I was on desiro...Also my 459 on third trip was 450.

458535 and 502 last night on 1746 Feltham to Waterloo, took almost a minute for the left hand doors to release at Whitton, and almost 5 minutes then to get them all closed at Richmond. The guard during this time made no announcements at all, and the PIS was broken, except the destination display on the front of the train. Seemed to me the guard was someone who doesn't like making announcements.

That's not nice to make assumptions like that.Sounds like they had problems which is quite common on these units at the moment.

 

[infobleep]

What other reason would there be for a guard not to make announcements. Would they simply be to busy trying to fix the problem? Once the problem was fixed though one would hope they have enough time to then announce what the problem was.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

458535 and 502 last night on 1746 Feltham to Waterloo, took almost a minute for the left hand doors to release at Whitton, and almost 5 minutes then to get them all closed at Richmond. The guard during this time made no announcements at all, and the PIS was broken, except the destination display on the front of the train. Seemed to me the guard was someone who doesn't like making announcements.

The PIS system on a 458 is cumbersome & clunky to use at the best of times and if there is a fault on the PIS system,sometimes it has been known to stop the PA working as well. The only solution is to reboot the whole train (never mind just the TMS) and start again,however if the train is in service this is not an entirely practical solution as the doors will close without warning,lights go out & GSMR goes down as well,you can almost guarantee that someone will then pull a passcom or egress.

Operating an egress will then escalate things considerably,as you then have to make a REC and stop everything because you cannot tell where they've decamped from. :roll:

Anyway there appears to be a fault with an ASDO beacon (balise) at Putney today.

 

[hassaanhc]

The PIS system on a 458 is cumbersome & clunky to use at the best of times and if there is a fault on the PIS system,sometimes it has been known to stop the PA working as well. The only solution is to reboot the whole train (never mind just the TMS) and start again,however if the train is in service this is not an entirely practical solution as the doors will close without warning,lights go out & GSMR goes down as well,you can almost guarantee that someone will then pull a passcom or egress.

Operating an egress will then escalate things considerably,as you then have to make a REC and stop everything because you cannot tell where they've decamped from. :roll:

Anyway there appears to be a fault with an ASDO beacon (balise) at Putney today.

What a nightmare.
The auto announcement system should really have got an upgrade, these are still the only units of theirs to not use their standard set of announcements (those used in 158/159/444/450/455). And no side displays fitted. Speakers are also poor, and can't deal with the bass so sound distorts.
The worst thing is: "This train is for London Waterloo....... calling at..... and London Waterloo" upon leaving Vauxhall. What the hell is that? :roll:

Apart from that and the poor reliability, they're not actually that bad to ride on, well the "new" 8531/8533/8534/8535, not tried 8502 or 8532 :P

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The PIS system on a 458 is cumbersome & clunky to use at the best of times and if there is a fault on the PIS system,sometimes it has been known to stop the PA working as well. The only solution is to reboot the whole train (never mind just the TMS) and start again,however if the train is in service this is not an entirely practical solution as the doors will close without warning,lights go out & GSMR goes down as well,you can almost guarantee that someone will then pull a passcom or egress.

Operating an egress will then escalate things considerably,as you then have to make a REC and stop everything because you cannot tell where they've decamped from. :roll:

Anyway there appears to be a fault with an ASDO beacon (balise) at Putney today.

Is there no way to isolate systems on the 458s to save the need for "full system reboots"?

 

[hassaanhc]

I'd imagine interworking between Hounslow services and other routes will remain? Don't think they've ever claimed 100% of services to Hounslow will be planned to use 458/5 so various 450 & 455 during the day should remain?

Currently there is quite a bit of interworking which may be difficult to accommodate elsewhere:
455 pair on 2S10 0633 Staines to London Waterloo goes to the Kingston route.
455 pair out of depot on the 2V45 1607 London Waterloo to London Waterloo then goes onto the 2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton (as 450 attaches to another 450 to make 8 cars on the 2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo).
450 pair on the 2S48 1533 Weybridge to London Waterloo goes onto the 1N93 1705 London Waterloo to Aldershot.
455 pair out of depot on the 2V49 1707 London Waterloo to London Waterloo then goes on the 2H97 1843 London Waterloo to Shepperton.
450 pair on the 2S63 1952 London Waterloo to Weybridge has been to Reading, Portsmouth, and Weymouth earlier in the day the day and goes to Portsmouth afterwards.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Is there no way to isolate systems on the 458s to save the need for "full system reboots"?

You can try a TMS reboot on 458/0's, which sometimes works, I don't know 458/5s & if they have retained the TMS reboot facility.

I have so far manage to escape the conversion programme.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd imagine interworking between Hounslow services and other routes will remain? Don't think they've ever claimed 100% of services to Hounslow will be planned to use 458/5 so various 450 & 455 during the day should remain?

Currently there is quite a bit of interworking which may be difficult to accommodate elsewhere:
455 pair on 2S10 0633 Staines to London Waterloo goes to the Kingston route.
455 pair out of depot on the 2V45 1607 London Waterloo to London Waterloo then goes onto the 2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton (as 450 attaches to another 450 to make 8 cars on the 2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo).
450 pair on the 2S48 1533 Weybridge to London Waterloo goes onto the 1N93 1705 London Waterloo to Aldershot.
455 pair out of depot on the 2V49 1707 London Waterloo to London Waterloo then goes on the 2H97 1843 London Waterloo to Shepperton.
450 pair on the 2S63 1952 London Waterloo to Weybridge has been to Reading, Portsmouth, and Weymouth earlier in the day the day and goes to Portsmouth afterwards.

 

[James Wake]

That's not nice to make assumptions like that.Sounds like they had problems which is quite common on these units at the moment.

Apologies if I made a wrong assumption there, but I had had a stressful journey to Feltham to meet that train (a late running bus being the issue and I missed the bus to Feltham I wanted (every 10 mins), luckily the second bus I caught made the 1746 with 5 mins to spare). Also, I notice most guards on any trains make an announcement after Richmond in most circumstances. There are some great guards on that line, anyway I was also frustrated that there was an excessive squeaking noise from the underside of 458535 in Coach A. I know 458/0 units have a squeak too, but nowhere near as bad as this was. Any suggestions, it was directly behind the driver's cab door. I like the 458/5, which is why I make special arrangements sometimes after work to go out of my way and travel on them.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Apologies if I made a wrong assumption there, but I had had a stressful journey to Feltham to meet that train (a late running bus being the issue and I missed the bus to Feltham I wanted (every 10 mins), luckily the second bus I caught made the 1746 with 5 mins to spare). Also, I notice most guards on any trains make an announcement after Richmond in most circumstances. There are some great guards on that line, anyway I was also frustrated that there was an excessive squeaking noise from the underside of 458535 in Coach A. I know 458/0 units have a squeak too, but nowhere near as bad as this was. Any suggestions, it was directly behind the driver's cab door. I like the 458/5, which is why I make special arrangements sometimes after work to go out of my way and travel on them.

You need therapy!

 

[James Wake]

Nope, definitely not in requirement of therapy, I was explaining my opinion, I had several ways of getting to Feltham, I just chose a bad one, however it got better later as my train from East Croydon (the 442s bound for Eastbourne) started there, so no problems with a good seat. Anyway, looking forward to my first ride on 458502. I saw it again today on the 1737 off Waterloo at Clapham Junction behind 458531.

 

[JonathanH]

Tonight, saw

458534+458532 2V65 2107 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
458533+458535 2U74 2223 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Nope, definitely not in requirement of therapy, I was explaining my opinion, I had several ways of getting to Feltham, I just chose a bad one, however it got better later as my train from East Croydon (the 442s bound for Eastbourne) started there, so no problems with a good seat. Anyway, looking forward to my first ride on 458502. I saw it again today on the 1737 off Waterloo at Clapham Junction behind 458531.

Whoosh.... You missed it. :roll:

 

[James Wake]

Whoosh.... You missed it. :roll:

I don't easily pick up jokes, anyway does anyone know which diagram and where on the formation 502 is today?

 

[Juniper Driver]

You can try a TMS reboot on 458/0's, which sometimes works, I don't know 458/5s & if they have retained the TMS reboot facility.

I have so far manage to escape the conversion programme.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They have as I have already used it for when the TMS froze with Vauxhall on the display when I got in the cab at Waterloo.

Most guards on SWT make good announcements with management keeping an ear out generally.(and if they don't management have a word)

Havent been on 532/502/536...or 501

No worries JW...I feel really sorry for the guards...they have to put up with some real crap sometimes.

 

[SWTuser]

10:19 Isleworth to Waterloo formed of 10 carriages with 458 532 leading. Automatic train announcements are out of sync with actual station arriving at

 

[Juniper Driver]

10:19 Isleworth to Waterloo formed of 10 carriages with 458 532 leading. Automatic train announcements are out of sync with actual station arriving at

Damn,that happened to me and I couldn't even fix it with modify station start.Im told it used to be done on wheel turn but may now be done by GPS.

 

[TEW]

I believe I have worked out the new 458/5 diagrams.

10-Car
5U07 0502 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0540
2U07 0558 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 0651
2U14 0723 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 0821
2U17 0828 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 0921
2U24 0953 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1049
2U27 1058 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1151
2U34 1223 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1319
2U37 1328 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1421
2U44 1453 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1549
2U47 1558 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1651
2U54 1723 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1819
2U57 1828 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1923
2U64 1953 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 2049
2U67 2058 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 2151
2U74 2223 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 2319
5Y92 2330 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 0011

10-Car
5R05 0545 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0602
2R05 0615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0741
2S15 0752 London Waterloo Weybridge 0909
2S24 0933 Weybridge London Waterloo 1056
5Y87 1104 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 1151
5V51 1704 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 1727
2V51 1737 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1902
2R57 1915 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2041
2S67 2052 London Waterloo Weybridge 2207
2S76 2233 Weybridge London Waterloo 2356
5Y48 0012 London Waterloo Clapham Yard Sidings 0042

5-Car
5S03 0454 Clapham Yard Sidings Staines 0531
2S03 0544 Staines Weybridge 0607
2S12 0632 Weybridge London Waterloo 0756
2V13 0810 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0932
2R19 0945 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1111
2S29 1122 London Waterloo Weybridge 1237
2S38 1303 Weybridge London Waterloo 1426
2V39 1437 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1602
2R45 1615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1741
2S55 1752 London Waterloo Weybridge 1910
2S64 1937 Weybridge London Waterloo 2056
2V65 2107 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2232
5Y93 2242 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 2321

5-Car
5S03 0454 Clapham Yard Sidings Staines 0531
2S03 0544 Staines Weybridge 0607
2S12 0632 Weybridge London Waterloo 0756
2V13 0810 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0932
2S23 0952 London Waterloo Weybridge 1107
2S32 1133 Weybridge London Waterloo 1256
2V33 1307 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1432
2R45 1615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1741
2S55 1752 London Waterloo Weybridge 1910
2S64 1937 Weybridge London Waterloo 2056
2V65 2107 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2232
5Y93 2242 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 2321


The last two diagrams are coupled for the morning and evening peaks.

 

[hassaanhc]

Massive thanks for working that out
Yes an attachment did take place for the 1615 Hounslow, covering on the 1607 by a 455 pair out of Wimbledon Park. For a second I was worried the 1752 Weybridge was downgraded from 8 to 5, but that isn't the case :P. It does however mean the 1107 and 1245 Hounslow, and the 1422 Weybridge & 1603 return, are no longer 458/5. The 2107 Hounslow is now done on a different diagram too.
Wonder if the 1725 Weybridge has been strengthened now? A very busy train that.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I worked my first ever 5 car 459 on Monday.

 

[JonathanH]

I believe I have worked out the new 458/5 diagrams.

10-Car
5U07 0502 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0540
2U07 0558 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 0651
2U14 0723 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 0821
2U17 0828 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 0921
2U24 0953 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1049
2U27 1058 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1151
2U34 1223 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1319
2U37 1328 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1421
2U44 1453 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1549
2U47 1558 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1651
2U54 1723 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 1819
2U57 1828 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 1923
2U64 1953 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 2049
2U67 2058 London Waterloo Windsor & Eton Riverside 2151
2U74 2223 Windsor & Eton Riverside London Waterloo 2319
5Y92 2330 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 0011

10-Car
5R05 0545 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 0602
2R05 0615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0741
2S15 0752 London Waterloo Weybridge 0909
2S24 0933 Weybridge London Waterloo 1056
5Y87 1104 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 1151
5V51 1704 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings London Waterloo 1727
2V51 1737 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1902
2R57 1915 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2041
2S67 2052 London Waterloo Weybridge 2207
2S76 2233 Weybridge London Waterloo 2356
5Y48 0012 London Waterloo Clapham Yard Sidings 0042

5-Car
5S03 0454 Clapham Yard Sidings Staines 0531
2S03 0544 Staines Weybridge 0607
2S12 0632 Weybridge London Waterloo 0756
2V13 0810 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0932
2R19 0945 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1111
2S29 1122 London Waterloo Weybridge 1237
2S38 1303 Weybridge London Waterloo 1426
2V39 1437 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1602
2R45 1615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1741
2S55 1752 London Waterloo Weybridge 1910
2S64 1937 Weybridge London Waterloo 2056
2V65 2107 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2232
5Y93 2242 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 2321

5-Car
5S03 0454 Clapham Yard Sidings Staines 0531
2S03 0544 Staines Weybridge 0607
2S12 0632 Weybridge London Waterloo 0756
2V13 0810 London Waterloo London Waterloo 0932
2S23 0952 London Waterloo Weybridge 1107
2S32 1133 Weybridge London Waterloo 1256
2V33 1307 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1432
2R45 1615 London Waterloo London Waterloo 1741
2S55 1752 London Waterloo Weybridge 1910
2S64 1937 Weybridge London Waterloo 2056
2V65 2107 London Waterloo London Waterloo 2232
5Y93 2242 London Waterloo Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings 2321


The last two diagrams are coupled for the morning and evening peaks.

Given the comments about formations 10 v 5 and 4 v 5 yesterday and looking at RTT, it would appear that the split for the 0945 / 0952 Waterloo departures didn't occur at that time. The unit working 2V33 ended up in platform 5 at Waterloo on its return having crossed from the Windsor side to apparently stop on the fast line at Vauxhall. It presumably then formed part of the 1512 to Basingstoke with another unit from Clapham Yard.

Its convenient how three departures occur within 15 minutes at 2052.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Given the comments about formations 10 v 5 and 4 v 5 yesterday and looking at RTT, it would appear that the split for the 0945 / 0952 Waterloo departures didn't occur at that time. The unit working 2V33 ended up in platform 5 at Waterloo on its return having crossed from the Windsor side to apparently stop on the fast line at Vauxhall. It presumably then formed part of the 1512 to Basingstoke with another unit from Clapham Yard.

Its convenient how three departures occur within 15 minutes at 2052.

Yes,that was me. Yes,station stop at Vauxhall an easy stop to miss when crossed onto the main.I think it was a 450/5...written on my diagram.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I worked my first ever 5 car 459 on Monday.

What's a 459? :-?

 

[Manchester77]

What's a 459? :-?

What drivers have nicknamed the 458/5