Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[theironroad]

Not to mention that sorting the paperwork for a single unit would be more complicated than just putting it on trucks.

Does only one 5 car need testing over there? Is all other testing done in UK?

 

[Domh245]

Does only one 5 car need testing over there? Is all other testing done in UK?

I believe so, yes. Certainly with the 710s they've only sent 2 units overseas that I can remember, 1 to Velim and another to France to complete a few specific tasks, but the rest of the type testing and mileage accumulation has been done at various UK sites including the LO network. I expect that a lot of testing and homologation for the 701s can be carried over from the other Aventras, so they'll be able to pretty much complete their testing on SW metals, perhaps with a small amount of additional testing at Asfordby/Old Dalby

 

[WWTownEnth]

Any news on whether the first delivery happened (or is happening any time soon)?

 

[Owen31]

Any news on whether the first delivery happened (or is happening any time soon)?

Went past Wimbledon this morning and couldn’t see anything, all the road doors were open and there wasn’t anything at the back

 

[Goldfish62]

Went past Wimbledon this morning and couldn’t see anything, all the road doors were open and there wasn’t anything at the back

I'd be very surprised if it had arrived. Hardly essential, and nothing could with it once arrived anyway.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'd be very surprised if it had arrived. Hardly essential, and nothing could with it once arrived anyway.

All projects are currently on hold/suspended according to a recent staff brief.

 

[spark001uk]

After hearing rail services planning to increase from the 18th May, I checked rtt and I also noticed there's a couple of test entries starting that day, 5Q50 and 5Q51. No telling for definite whether that's a 701 test or not, nor whether it'll start that exact day?

 

[daylightatthegrids]

After hearing rail services planning to increase from the 18th May, I checked rtt and I also noticed there's a couple of test entries starting that day, 5Q50 and 5Q51. No telling for definite whether that's a 701 test or not, nor whether it'll start that exact day?

Maybe just the plastic pigs after been sitting for few weeks now...

 

[Domh245]

18th of May was the planned timetable date change wasn't it? Seems more likely that those are just paths that are introduced as of that timetable rather than any indication that testing is about to begin. Would be nice if they did begin testing then although that gives them 5 working days to get the unit to Wimbledon and ready for testing. By comparison, the first 720 arrived at Ilford around 2 months before mainline testing began

 

[spark001uk]

Maybe just the plastic pigs after been sitting for few weeks now...

Doubtful, these workings are booked to stop at a number of stops, particularly all stns from Woking to staines, presumably to check various things.
Also I don't know if staines loop would take a 10/442 would it?

 

[theironroad]

The current swr/aslef covid policy is that there is to be no testing of any stock, new or existing or any ECS moves purely for route/traction retention. ECS moves still have to happen of course for stock maintenance and positioning.

 

[moley]

Has the six month ‘use it or lose it’ rule been relaxed?

 

[theironroad]

Has the six month ‘use it or lose it’ rule been relaxed?

In general yes, but not solidly fixed. For traction it's only going to be currently 442 as all the other traction is in daily use, though anyone off sick over 6 months will probably have a training needs assessment done to see what refreshing is needed.

Routes such as sidings etc will be a dvd refresher or similar, diversionary routes will probably be an issue especially if they only have bare minimum wok at moment.

The thing that will scupper things temporarily is the introduction of 701 as believe no training at training school either currently so no drivers have started training on them yet as they are delayed.

 

[Bigfoot]

The current swr/aslef covid policy is that there is to be no testing of any stock, new or existing or any ECS moves purely for route/traction retention. ECS moves still have to happen of course for stock maintenance and positioning.

As Gbrf are (or were planned to be) doing the testing initially before modified cabs are available for swr drivers it maybe that gbrf are breaking them in.

 

[theironroad]

As Gbrf are (or were planned to be) doing the testing initially before modified cabs are available for swr drivers it maybe that gbrf are breaking them in.

I'm not sure who is testing them tbh but driver training still needs completing. I think new train testing falls foul of the aslef and rdg protocol and believe there are issues over the new stadler trains on Anglia at the moment.

 

[moley]

As Gbrf are (or were planned to be) doing the testing initially before modified cabs are available for swr drivers it maybe that gbrf are breaking them in.

What mods are being made that aren’t done at production?

 

[pompeyfan]

What mods are being made that aren’t done at production?

believe the original cab layout wasn’t acceptable to ASLEF, moving the PBC is definitely one of the mods. Assume it’s not done during production due to the cost of changing the contract will probably be more than a 2nd order to move the cab around.

 

[Goldfish62]

believe the original cab layout wasn’t acceptable to ASLEF, moving the PBC is definitely one of the mods. Assume it’s not done during production due to the cost of changing the contract will probably be more than a 2nd order to move the cab around.

Sounds to me like a case of Bombardier trying to reinvent the wheel when they could have used the standard European driver's desk as per the 707s.

 

[Domh245]

It seems like they're pretty similar to the existing Aventras in terms of cab layout based on the short clip of one in Geoff Marshall's video, so it's curious that ASLEF are rejecting them here whilst being accepted elsewhere?

 

[Fincra5]

It seems like they're pretty similar to the existing Aventras in terms of cab layout based on the short clip of one in Geoff Marshall's video, so it's curious that ASLEF are rejecting them here whilst being accepted elsewhere?

I can only think its due to the overall smaller cab space on a 701 vs 710s/720s (and 345s). So maybe some of it is too cramped.

 

[Mikey C]

I can only think its due to the overall smaller cab space on a 701 vs 710s/720s (and 345s). So maybe some of it is too cramped.

It's hard to imagine it's more cramped than all the current gangwayed SWR stock

 

[Fincra5]

It's hard to imagine it's more cramped than all the current gangwayed SWR stock

Maybe, maybe not, clearly there's some positioning of equipment that ASLEF aren't Happy with. I do wonder if Train Manufacturers actually speak to the unions at all... I guess not, RE: Class 385 windscreens! (And the awfully small front window/ cramped cab and so on).

 

[theironroad]

It's hard to imagine it's more cramped than all the current gangwayed SWR stock

From what I recall from last year, the issue is that the 707s apparently have been a very good cab ergonomically and the initial 701 cab was seen as a major step backwards.

 

[Bigfoot]

From what I recall from last year, the issue is that the 707s apparently have been a very good cab ergonomically and the initial 701 cab was seen as a major step backwards.

The 707 cab is also (as I understand it) a "standard" layout making driving different stocks easier as things are in the same place which when bombardier decided to make up their own many were shocked.

 

[Energy]

RE: Class 385 windscreens! (And the awfully small front window/ cramped cab and so on).

Apparently the AT200 (the model which is the class 385) never originally had a gangway on the front, Hitachi just put it on so it could bid for Scotrail but it wasn't really ever designed for it which is why the windscreen had issues.

 

[southern442]

The current swr/aslef covid policy is that there is to be no testing of any stock, new or existing or any ECS moves purely for route/traction retention. ECS moves still have to happen of course for stock maintenance and positioning.

Definitely for the best I suppose. I don't think the 701 delivery is too much of a big deal at this stage. Even if everything was to instantly get back to normal tomorrow, there's no reason why the current fleet couldn't hold on for another year to see these trains properly tested and introduced.

 

[AlexNL]

The 707 cab is also (as I understand it) a "standard" layout making driving different stocks easier as things are in the same place which when bombardier decided to make up their own many were shocked.

As the 345s and 710s are in service, I assume the concerns ASLEF have don't have to do with the standard Aventra cab layout but are specific to the shortened 701 cab.

 

[Goldfish62]

As the 345s and 710s are in service, I assume the concerns ASLEF have don't have to do with the standard Aventra cab layout but are specific to the shortened 701 cab.

Presumably the WMT Aventras are even more problematic, having the same shortened cab combined with a gangway.

 

[pompeyfan]

I think it needs to be remembered that ASLEF is made up of several regions with different reps. What might be acceptable to Anglia region may not be acceptable to Wessex region etc, each region is only as good as their respective reps.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think it needs to be remembered that ASLEF is made up of several regions with different reps. What might be acceptable to Anglia region may not be acceptable to Wessex region etc, each region is only as good as their respective reps.

I'm wondering how it worked in BR days when trains allocated to several different regions had a single standard cab layout.