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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Class377/5, 29 Oct 2015.
Current diagrams for 458s are 32 from 36.
I'm referring to the longer term, once they've shifted back to Reading runs.
Which is quite typical, AIUI (from what has been mentioned here over the years) EMU utilisation in most fleets is around the low 90s % mark, IIRC some of the largest fleets plan for around 92 or 93%, which would in this case be 33 from 36. But I doubt many TOCs would attempt much higher utilisation than that.
I know you are. But you seem to be proposing using more sets than what SWT believe is actually achievable. Unless of course you magically know how to squeeze two extra sets out of the maintenance requirement that SWT don't?
Surely if Reading and Windsor both go to 4tph there will need to be a top up order of further 707s? Especially given that units to be cascaded over to the main line in the coming months will not be easily clawed back?
I didn't know what their maintenance schedule is, and I wasn't really thinking when I wrote that.
If we assume there are 8-10 458s and around 10 707s left, I think that would probably be enough to run the Weybridge/rounder services, with a little tinkering here and there and the odd 450. Remember that there are currently still a couple of 450 digrams on Weybridge/rounders
Remember that the increase to 4tph to Reading and Windsor is part of the next franchise and any rolling stock considerations will be a part of the bids. The 458/5 conversion and 707 order weren't designed to allow a 4tph service to both so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if there were insufficient units to resource it.
Reading 4tph is achievable using the current fleet, as it is 4tph now between 1550 and 1950 (i.e. the evening peak), whereas Windsor is 2tph all day. So Windsor needs extra stock for 4tph, probably 10 sets.
You don't need 10 extra units if you simply divert the current Weybridge via Hounslow units at Staines to cover the Windsor service (think no extra working over the various level crossings) and cut Weybridge back to a Virginia Water to Weybridge shuttle using a single class 450 (obviously with some track work at Virginia Water first).
Fair point, but do you then need to put in extra Hounslow loop trains to cover the missing Weybridge trains? In which case you need more sets!
That's quite frankly, a daft idea. Particularly in the peaks that line is well used, and can fill a 5/458. This would also mean that the 7-mile journey from Chertsey to Ashford would require two changes, at Virginia Water and Staines, one of which is currently rather tight.
In the morning, one particular down service will arrive at Egham with a fair number of people standing (there isn't the capacity on the Guildford/Reading services to shift them across), empty out quite a bit and then get to a point where people start to stand. If this were cut back to a VIR<->WYB shuttle it would just be a nightmare.
We need those trains between Hounslow and Chertsey though
Daft idea maybe, but a Weybridge shuttle is how it is specified in the new franchise. There was a couple of pages discussion about it in this thread a few weeks ago.
No, you simply divert the existing Waterloo to Weybridge stoppers to Windsor after Staines rather than via Egham. No need for additional Hounslow loop services (which wouldn't have a path anyway).
Return time from Staines to Weybridge with the layover is currently about 1¼ hours. This would be reduced to ¾ hours with a 15 minute layover at Windsor so you actually save units (and more closely match demand / platform capacity to train size on the Virginia Water to Weybridge stretch).
Nothing to prevent the Waterloo to Reading trains stopping at Ashford to maintain only a single change at Virginia Water. At the moment, the xx05 / xx35 trains from Waterloo to Reading stop at Ashford and some of the up trains from the Camberley line do as well.
Even outisde the peaks, there are things like school trains which would collapse at this prospect, also how do you propose the Chertsey-Hounslow flow being maintained?
I should hope not.
How significant is the current Hounslow to Chertsey flow? I guess it would be maintained in same way any current Hounslow to Windsor flow is currently maintained - ie with a change of trains.
While direct services between Weybridge and Hounslow have been in place since 2003, first by diversion of off-peak trains to Reading then by the conversion of these trains to stopping services they haven't always existed.
I think the poor connections at Weybridge put many people off going via that way.
It is normal to have a 4 minute connection between an arrival via Chertsey and the Basingstoke stopper, which isn't shown in journey planners as the minimum connection time is 5 minutes. Therefore journey planners show a 20 minute wait for the Woking 455 stopper.
In the other direction, the Basingstoke stopper narrowly misses the service via Chertsey, so you have to use the 455 stopper with a 20 minute connection (at least you can sit on the Chertsey unit). As things stand, the triangle for Chertsey can't depart later as the incoming train is waiting outside.
It is often faster (or at least as fast) to go via Clapham Junction for stations west of Weybridge. A few flows like Hounslow to Guildford do have slightly cheaper "via Virginia Water" tickets (in addition to the usual "Not via London" and "Any Permitted"), but I'd be shocked if more than a very handful of people choose to go that way as the price difference is very little.
I was just about to say the same for Waterloo passengers on the Chertsey branch. It is a quicker journey via Weybridge, but I've noticed more people seem to be going via VW and change onto an up Reading now (myself included), because Weybridge is not the best for connections (in either direction of the mainline really). The arrival into Weybridge off the branch is booked 07 and 37, which annoyingly misses the up Basing by 1 minute, meaning getting the stopper at 12 or 42. Trouble is the branch service into Weybridge has often lost several minutes by the time it gets to Chertsey etc, meaning missing the stopper, and having to wait another 20 odd minutes for the next up Basing.
Anyone know what these are? They're taking the TL route. My first thought was either a 700 or 707001/002?
I'll put money on that being 707001 & 707002 heading off for their ac testing.plus also makes space for another delivery from Germany ready for testing.
Be a nice photo to get 707s thru the tunnel, can't do it that late tho unfortunately or I'd never get home.
Just seen 001/002 (I think - definitely a 707 but my photo of the front is a bit fuzzy) at Haslemere.
Yep that'll be the 5Q11 run to Petersfield. Then 5Q14 return journey. Then it'll do that AC test run to Ferme Pk tonight, if that's what that working is.
didn't realise the link was now in use
It doesn't seem much of a slot for any significant testing, looks like they are due to return to Wimbledon after only 6 hours.
A colleague just saw 707001&002 head north through Blackfriars.