Harbouring
Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2017
- Messages
- 262
707017+707018 are out up and down the Portsmouth Direct today. Just seen at Petersfield on its way back to Guildford
My emphasises to highlight a slight contradiction there? As an aside, could a 456+455+455 train have the 456 unit split up, so it would be a half 456+455+455+half 456? (Although, yes, the doors at the end of the two half 456s are passenger doors not non-passenger gangway doors.)
(Also, has the formation ever been 455+456+455?)
455+456+455 not permitted in passenger service on SWR. Can have 456+456, 456+456+456, 455+456, 455+456+456 or 455+455+456.
However, his suggestion wasn't a 12-car set up. It was a ten car, formed 456DMSO-455-455-456DTSOThe last I heard 10 car 455/456 formations must have a maximum of three sections (ie: no corridor connection between each, so the driver in one part, guard in another, and the third no member of staff). This did initially cause some concerns, but was eventually agreed to by all concerned. Therefore your latter question about 455/456/456/455 would not be permitted, as far as I'm aware. Operationally I believe your first point about 2+4+4+2 may be acceptable (although I will stand corrected on that, please, if need be?) provided as mentioned earlier, all 10 cars can be accommodated on the relevant platforms.
However, his suggestion wasn't a 12-car set up. It was a ten car, formed 456DMSO-455-455-456DTSO
Yep, just seen same returning to Clapham, 5Q14.707017+707018 are out up and down the Portsmouth Direct today. Just seen at Petersfield on its way back to Guildford
Ah, wasn't thinking of it that way - I was thinking staff access between units. Makes sense now.There's no contradiction- the lack of gangway on the 456 means that at an 8 car platform depending upon the formation the entire 456 could end up not at a platform, whilst with the 707 three carriages would be and so SDO allows passengers to disembark.
To be honest, it was not a serious suggestion, just one that my idle thoughts on a daily journey on these things brings up now and then! I kind of forget that SWR do still run single 455 units, so a 5-car 455/456 unit would get split up occasionally with no guarantee that it would be joined back up the correct way. I guess it would also essentially 'lock' any passengers into the single 456 coaches at either end of the train unless more modifications were done to the 455s. But yeah, completely pointless speculation and not one for this thread at all!I'd have thought what you suggest could be made to work, and again due to effectively having 5 car units would work if SDO was included, although I'd bet there would be formations with one or both "456" cabs burried in the centra and the gangway 455 cabs to the exterior. Also half the resulting hybrid five car units would get a DMSO and half would get a DTSO. Could go completely mad and run them as 10 car fixed formation with all the 455 cabs effectively out of use... but there's no need.
I still don’t get why 12 car 455s never ran...
oh, passengers in the 456 cars wouldn't be trapped- modifying the end gangways on the 455 to work with the inner gangways of the 456 would be one of the most trivial parts of the concept, bascially the same as when it's been done on 150s
12-car 455s could run in the past, and did on rare occasions, stopping only at long enough platforms of course. I believe during a drivers strike in the past 12-car 455s were used on Woking-Waterloo services, all stations to Surbiton and then fast to Waterloo, all those platforms can fit 12 car trains. 12-car 455s with the new AC traction equipment are not permitted though.Because they don’t fit in the platforms! 455/456 are not fitted with SDO.
5-car 707 working 1240 London Waterloo-Woking and 1336 return.
10-car 707 working 1310 London Waterloo-Woking and 1406 return.
Repeats every 2 hours all day.
Unusual opportunity to get 707s on the mainline via Weybridge, they don't have any booked passenger work on the route at the moment.
Part of the issue was that the overhaul on the 456s fitted them with PRM compliance including call for aid equipment at the wheelchair positions. The 455s were likewise being fitted during their C62 overhauls at Bournemouth. In theory you couldn't use a PRM compliant set with an unmodified set, so initially at least the 456s ran with modified sets. Mixed operation could (and did) happen if the call for aid equipment was isolated on depot before the sets went out - good thing SWT avoided attach/detach of 455s in service!I would have to disagree with the "trivial" above. Whilst I have no detailed knowledge of the 150's, no such modifications are ever that straightforward. At the time the 456's were transferred from Southern to SWT, there was belief in some quarters that they could go to work with SWT 455's from day one. Not so, in fact the modifications required to the couplers and associated electrical (re) work was, I believe, quite a headache for those involved, which had a knock-on complication for service provision whereby the green 456's could not work with either 455's (SWT), or refurbished (red) 456's. There were also updated safety related equipment fitted to the refurbished (red) units (as well as the 455 fleet) as they went through refurbishment, which train crew had to be up to speed with. This is why the green units were in essence treated almost as a sub mini fleet and were restricted to working in pairs (no singletons permitted due to risk of becoming 'gapped') with fellow green units, which is why they finished their days in that guise on the Guildford-Ascot road.
I still don’t get why 12 car 455s never ran...
I hope no 707s are changed to the dull depressing grey livery! They look awesome in red.
As the aventras aren't due for delivery until 2019 I'm not sure you can off lease stock before stock is delivered to replace and still keep the same level of service...Are they DEFINITELY going off lease? I heard somewhere that the Aventra order may not be enough, given the increase in Windsor and Reading trains from Dec 2018, and that the 707s may be retained.
As the aventras aren't due for delivery until 2019 I'm not sure you can off lease stock before stock is delivered to replace and still keep the same level of service...
Surely SWR ordered enough 701s! The requirement in the ITT for the extra services wasn't exactly a secret!Are they DEFINITELY going off lease? I heard somewhere that the Aventra order may not be enough, given the increase in Windsor and Reading trains from Dec 2018, and that the 707s may be retained.