Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[D365]

There's a few threads discussing why these noises are made on AC motored units. I should have a few bookmarked somewhere if there's any further interest.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Has anyone got an update on the delivery of the last four units? Deliveries were quite regular for a while and now seem to have ground to a halt again. No idea why!

 

[ash39]

On the noise topic - don't know if it's just where I've been stood in relation to the train, but my observations of Class 700's on Thameslink (which I'm assuming are similar mechanically to 707'), are somewhat confusing.

On DC, they seem to emit the UFO sound that other electric desiros do. However, on AC they sound more like an Electrostar with a single continuous tone.

Logically the motors would sound broadly the same regardless of power supply, is there more to it or are my ears playing tricks on me?

 

[swt_passenger]

On the noise topic - don't know if it's just where I've been stood in relation to the train, but my observations of Class 700's on Thameslink (which I'm assuming are similar mechanically to 707'), are somewhat confusing.

On DC, they seem to emit the UFO sound that other electric desiros do. However, on AC they sound more like an Electrostar with a single continuous tone.

Logically the motors would sound broadly the same regardless of power supply, is there more to it or are my ears playing tricks on me?

Siemens operate the traction converters slightly differently in AC and DC supply areas. The way the 3 phase variable frequency AC is produced is complex, and this is the noise you hear. It isn’t caused by the motors, it is caused by the production of the voltage going to the motors.

Now harmonic frequencies (electrical noise) can affect lineside equipment such as track circuits and telecoms, and as these use a number of different technologies, the Siemens kit is set up slightly differently to suit the local area it is operating in.

This has been a fairly regular question, but the bottom line is that there are a number of electrical techniques to provide variable frequency and variable voltage AC motor drives, (aka VVVF) and Siemens and Bombardier just use different techniques.

I do wish people wouldn’t call it a ‘UFO noise’ though, I don’t think anyone has actually recorded one of those...

 

[Alteran Ancient]

So, I had my first ride on one of these last week. I've had plenty of rides in their sister 700s as well as plenty of other modern-day commuter stock (375-379,387,450, etc.) so I'd like to think I've experienced enough to be able to give a fair opinion of them.

For lack of a better description: they feel cheap. I know that probably sounds like a bad thing to say for a fleet that cost £200 million and that £200 million is a lot of money to most people, but they just don't feel like they have been built to the same quality as the 700s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's interesting, as I thought they were basically identical to the 700s. What gives that feel - the colour scheme?

 

[samuelmorris]

I do wish people wouldn’t call it a ‘UFO noise’ though, I don’t think anyone has actually recorded one of those...

I've heard it referred to that outside the forum a few times, it is fairly similar to the stereotypical noise a flying saucer would make in people's heads, I can't see that going away!

As far as the 707s feeling cheap is concerned, I wouldn't say the 700s feel particularly expensive either, but perhaps it has something to do with the more poorly drawn graphics on the PIS and the terrible announcement system?

 

[TEW]

707019+707020 appear to be entering service this evening on 2R49, 1715 Waterloo-Waterloo via Richmond and Brentford.

 

[Kite159]

707019+707020 appear to be entering service this evening on 2R49, 1715 Waterloo-Waterloo via Richmond and Brentford.

Ah good, another couple to hunt down on Friday

Any news on 707017 entering service (with 018 entering service last Saturday)?

 

[GW43125]

Ah good, another couple to hunt down on Friday

Any news on 707017 entering service (with 018 entering service last Saturday)?

I'm fairly sure I saw 7017 working the Weybridge road on Monday.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Are all the diagrams that are due to be served by 707s now switched over?

 

[Train Boy]

Are all the diagrams that are due to be served by 707s now switched over?

Not just yet, 27 are required for the full service, with only 26 currently in the UK and available for service.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Deleted

 

[WWTownEnth]

Not just yet, 27 are required for the full service, with only 26 currently in the UK and available for service.

Many thanks. Any idea what the delay is delivering the remaining four units? Any truth to the rumour that they’re being repainted?

 

[Train Boy]

Many thanks. Any idea what the delay is delivering the remaining four units? Any truth to the rumour that they’re being repainted?

There's another delivery this weekend, the normal Friday night path.

Out of the current suburban stock, their lease expires first, so I highly doubt they will be repainted. (707 lease expires December 2019, 458 lease expires April 2020, 455/456 lease expires December 2020)

 

[GW43125]

On 7019 this morning, it’s already got a wheel flat! Still smells new though. I’ve noticed this week the PIS screens have a habit of just turning themselves off for a couple of minutes at random times throughout the train. Also the load sensors are poorly configured-they’re always wrong!

 

[Class313:)]

Eh? Arent all of 455/6, 707, and 458 going in 2019 with 701s

 

[WWTownEnth]

No sign of a delivery at Clapham Yard last night.

 

[43096]

Eh? Arent all of 455/6, 707, and 458 going in 2019 with 701s

Not sure what you are replying to, but the lease expiry dates for the 455, 456, 458 and 707 fleets are as posted above. That is what is written in the franchise agreement.

 

[Class313:)]

ok...thats odd. Never mind

 

[D365]

ok...thats odd. Never mind

Even ignoring leasing arrangements, it makes sense to withdraw smaller fleets first.

 

[43096]

ok...thats odd. Never mind

Why is it odd? Bombardier aren't going to deliver them all instantly, so you need to phase out the existing fleet. Removing the smaller (and in the case of the 707s more expensive to lease) fleets first makes operational sense.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There's another delivery this weekend, the normal Friday night path.

Out of the current suburban stock, their lease expires first, so I highly doubt they will be repainted. (707 lease expires December 2019, 458 lease expires April 2020, 455/456 lease expires December 2020)

Why is it odd? Bombardier aren't going to deliver them all instantly, so you need to phase out the existing fleet. Removing the smaller (and in the case of the 707s more expensive to lease) fleets first makes operational sense.

You are right in fact they are actually all rather close together !. If none of the leases are extended then I would say Bombardier have a year or a bit less after the 707s go off lease to when the 455, 456 & 458 go off lease. Now I expect Bombardier will be planning to deliver the replacements for 455, 456 & 458 over more than a year - more than a years work there I assume ?. That would mean some being delivered before all the 707s should go off lease. That makes me think all 707s might get stored / mothballed in advance of the December 2019 deadline. Especially the first few surplus 707s might go into store nearer/before December 2018 !. Thats my conjecture.

 

[Domh245]

You are right in fact they are actually all rather close together !. If none of the leases are extended then I would say Bombardier have a year or a bit less after the 707s go off lease to when the 455, 456 & 458 go off lease. Now I expect Bombardier will be planning to deliver the replacements for 455, 456 & 458 over more than a year - more than a years work there I assume ?. That would mean some being delivered before all the 707s should go off lease. That makes me think all 707s might get stored / mothballed in advance of the December 2019 deadline. Especially the first few surplus 707s might go into store nearer/before December 2018 !. Thats my conjecture.

The planned introduction profile is in the franchise agreement, page 434. The first 2x 10 car trains should be in service by 15/09/2019, and the last 6x 5 car trains should be in service by 08/12/2020. Provisional, obviously, but not that much more than a year if it all goes to plan.

 

[Goldfish62]

The planned introduction profile is in the franchise agreement, page 434. The first 2x 10 car trains should be in service by 15/09/2019, and the last 6x 5 car trains should be in service by 08/12/2019. Provisional, obviously, but not that much more than a year if it all goes to plan.

I think you mean 8/12/2020. There's also a one year contingency so Dec 2021 is the absolute deadline to avoid a franchise breach

 

[Domh245]

I think you mean 8/12/2020. There's also a one year contingency so Dec 2021 is the absolute deadline to avoid a franchise breach

Yes, good spot. Fixed now, thanks

 

[Class455]

Are all the diagrams that are due to be served by 707s now switched over?

Nope. There’s one mainline diagram in particular which hasn’t switched over yet, and it’s my train home on a Thursday evening from Kingston!

 

[Robert Carroll]

Are any 707s currently scheduled on the Epsom line? There was one until the December 2017 timetable change.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think there is a 10 car pairing on the Epsom terminator that leaves Waterloo at around 18.00. ( Was exactly 18.00 but got moved by a minute at the last timetable change! )

 

[TEW]

Are any 707s currently scheduled on the Epsom line? There was one until the December 2017 timetable change.

There will be, don't think they have gone over to 707s yet though. Should be:
2D23 1039 London Waterloo-Guildford
2D93 1801 London Waterloo-Epsom
2D55 1839 London Waterloo- Guildford
1D57 1924 London Waterloo-Dorking
5D56 1846 Epsom-London Waterloo
1D66 2034 Dorking-London Waterloo